4-3-3 Formation

[SydneyGunnerFan]

3 back 5 mid 2 strikers should be the way to go hard to get through the middle of the park and we will have some pace up front so we can get through them with 2 strikers

 

[Master]

I was just wandering...

In a 4-4-2 formation, we have 4 top-notch players in pires, reyes, hleb and ljungberg. It would be total waste to have 2 of them sitting on the bench and i would prefer to sacrifice only one!

And i believe this can be realized in a 4-3-3 formation, with pires-gilberto-cesc covering the middle of the park. Meanwhile, hleb and reyes could work beside henry in attack, a more attacking position that i bet both of them would welcome with open arms.

Now the problem with this as u guys have all mentioned: HENRY!

I mean centre-forward aint his position and he wont be able to play to his fullest potential, while the others could play to their maximum level.

So the question...

are we ready to sacrifice our best player henry's performance just for a change in the formation?

 

[Gurgen]

I think you're all missing the point. In 433 the front three are forwards, not midfielders.

Chelsea play 451, though Robben can play left forward in 433 as well because of his Dutch schooling.

 

[clockwork orange]

For those who want to play 4-5-1, but call it 4-3-3, I recommend a book by Wiel Coerver -a genius, whose methods are used all over the world- 'Soccer Tactics & Techniques For A Better Offense '

 

[kel varnsen]

For those who want to play 4-5-1, but call it 4-3-3, I recommend a book by Wiel Coerver -a genius, whose methods are used all over the world- 'football Tactics & Techniques For A Better Offense '

well, then you and him are wrong. egil olsen, former national coach of norway, says otherwise and when it comes to tactics and the theoretical aspects of football, he is absolutely brilliant. the classic 4-3-3 employs one centre forward and two offensive wingers. the wingers doesn't have the same defensive responsibilites as the wingers in a 4-4-2, and are supposed to get into the box when the other(opposite side) winger crosses the ball in...

when i say winger, i don't necessesarily mean quick and skille wingers. there are a number of ways to implement this system. a big and physically strong player is also sometimes used. that way, the winger becomes the target for the long balls.

 

[clockwork orange]

For those who want to play 4-5-1, but call it 4-3-3, I recommend a book by Wiel Coerver -a genius, whose methods are used all over the world- 'football Tactics & Techniques For A Better Offense '

well, then you and him are wrong. egil olsen, former national coach of norway, says otherwise and when it comes to tactics and the theoretical aspects of football, he is absolutely brilliant. the classic 4-3-3 employs one centre forward and two offensive wingers. the wingers doesn't have the same defensive responsibilites as the wingers in a 4-4-2, and are supposed to get into the box when the other(opposite side) winger crosses the ball in...

I'm not debating that it's about the way midfielders play. You're missing the point.

Furthermore Egil Olsen is a very good coach, but is a nobody compared to Wiel Coerver. Ask Arsène Wenger, or any other manager, who is the best & they'll say Coerver, who apart from being a great player and manager, set up methods used by nearly every topclub (Olsen read all his books too). Coerver is THE authority on football technique and tactics.

 

[kel varnsen]

For those who want to play 4-5-1, but call it 4-3-3, I recommend a book by Wiel Coerver -a genius, whose methods are used all over the world- 'football Tactics & Techniques For A Better Offense '

well, then you and him are wrong. egil olsen, former national coach of norway, says otherwise and when it comes to tactics and the theoretical aspects of football, he is absolutely brilliant. the classic 4-3-3 employs one centre forward and two offensive wingers. the wingers doesn't have the same defensive responsibilites as the wingers in a 4-4-2, and are supposed to get into the box when the other(opposite side) winger crosses the ball in...

I'm not debating that it's about the way midfielders play. You're missing the point.

Furthermore Egil Olsen is a very good coach, but is a nobody compared to Wiel Coerver. Ask Arsène Wenger, or any other manager, who is the best & they'll say Coerver, who apart from being a great player and manager, set up methods used by nearly every topclub (Olsen read all his books too). Coerver is THE authority on football technique and tactics.

and i'm telling you that there is only one out and out forward in 4-3-3, not three...

 

[Gurgen]

No, there are three forwards, a centre forward, a left forward and a right forward, that's why it is called 4-3-3.

They're not offensive wingers, they're forwards. They play on one line with the centre forward.

 

[kel varnsen]

No, there are three forwards, a centre forward, a left forward and a right forward, that's why it is called 4-3-3.

They're not offensive wingers, they're forwards. They play on one line with the centre forward.

no, when defending. the wingers/forwards have defensive duties. in effect, the formation looks like 4-5-1 when defending:

---x---
x-----x
--xxx-
x-x-x-x

 

[Gurgen]

Everyone has defensive duties according to the Dutch philisophy, this doesn't make them any less forwards. They defend as far back as midfield if needed, while a real winger would cover for his fullback as well.

 

[clockwork orange]

No, there are three forwards, a centre forward, a left forward and a right forward, that's why it is called 4-3-3.

They're not offensive wingers, they're forwards. They play on one line with the centre forward.

no, when defending. the wingers/forwards have defensive duties. in effect, the formation looks like 4-5-1 when defending:

---x---
x-----x
--xxx-
x-x-x-x

You're describing the Rosenborg/Norway system, not 4-3-3. Kel, I know what I'm talking about I did nearly all the courses of the Dutch FA available on the subject.

Olsen was genius for getting the best possible results with Norway & Rosenborg and for being one of the first mangers to seriously use computer analysis to improve the game, further more he can be credited for using the high cross switching sides (from left to right and v.v.) when counterattacking, but his system was no 4-3-3, he might call it that way but it wasn't.

If you play 4-3-3 like Holland, Ajax, Feyenoord do, you are vulnarable down the middle when your opponent hits you on the break, because you have 3 (three!) players on each wing. If you play what you call 4-3-3 and what imo is 4-5-1 (Chelsea, Rosenborg), you're vulnarable on your wings.

 

[kel varnsen]

Everyone has defensive duties according to the Dutch philisophy, this doesn't make them any less forwards. They defend as far back as midfield if needed, while a real winger would cover for his fullback as well.

no. in a 4-5-1, the winger isn't necessarily needed to cover for the full back. like i said earlier, this is because the distance between the right winger/forward and the full back is too big. in a 4-4-2, the full back and winger have a much more natural connection.

in 4-5-1/4-3-3 it is both the winger/forward and the left or right central midfielder who are responsible to help the full back...

 

[Gurgen]

All right kel, apparently you know better, despite me having played in a 4-3-3 in all forward positions in the country where 4-3-3 was basically invented.

 

[kel varnsen]

then it is pretty obvious, the dutch have a very different definition of the 4-3-3 from the rest of the world.

here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/s ... 637339.stm

http://www.answers.com/topic/formation-football

the 4-3-3 is a slightly adjusted version of 4-5-1...

 

[clockwork orange]

and i'm telling you that there is only one out and out forward in 4-3-3, not three...

and that's exactly where you're wrong: 4 (defenders) - 3 (midfielders) - 3 (forwards, 2 of which play on each wing), 4 (defenders) - 5 (5 midfielders , 2 of which play on each wing) - 1 (forward).

If Robben plays for Cheslki he's playing in 4-5-1 (he says so himself too), if he plays for Holland he's playing in 4-3-3.

This was my last post on this subject.

 

[Gurgen]

The three midfielders will normally play quite closely together to give protection to the defence.

While the three strikers will split across the pitch to provide width to the attack.

Isn't this exactly what I was trying to explain?

 

[clockwork orange]

then it is pretty obvious, the dutch have a very different definition of the 4-3-3 from the rest of the world.

here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/s ... 637339.stm

the 4-3-3 system as shown here (apart from the fact that the midfielders play close together which is blatantly wrong) is what Gurgen and I described as 4-3-3, played by Holland , Ajax and Feyenoord.
the 4-5-1 system as shown here is the way Chelski & Rosenborg play (they might tell they play 4-3-3 but they don't).

answers.com (the other link)'s description of tactics is faulty allover (not only on 4-3-3).

& this was really my last post on this subject.

 

[kel varnsen]

then it is pretty obvious, the dutch have a very different definition of the 4-3-3 from the rest of the world.

here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/s ... 637339.stm

the 4-3-3 system as shown here (apart from the fact that the midfielders play close together which is blatantly wrong) is what Gurgen and I described as 4-3-3, played by Holland , Ajax and Feyenoord.
the 4-5-1 system as shown here is the way Chelski & Rosenborg play (they might tell they play 4-3-3 but they don't).

answers.com (the other link)'s description of tactics is faulty allover (not only on 4-3-3).

& this was really my last post on this subject.

wrong again. the lw and rw in that 4-3-3 all drop back when the team is defending and in effect, the formation looks a bit like 4-5-1 when defending. you dutch are obviously very disturbed and isolated...

"The three midfielders will normally play quite closely together to give protection to the defence."

that means the lw and rw has to cover the space in front of the full back...

 

[kel varnsen]

The three midfielders will normally play quite closely together to give protection to the defence.

While the three strikers will split across the pitch to provide width to the attack.

Isn't this exactly what I was trying to explain?

see the word i underlined? attack! when defending, the lw and rw drop back and defend the space in front of the full backs(together with lcm and rcm)...

 

[Gurgen]

They're not LW and RW, even the BBC says they're strikers. Let's leave it at that.