49 goals conceded: What is wrong with the defence?

[iced22]

Think it's pretty evident that much of it stems from the midfield. The current setup in midfield, where nobody has a defined role and it's completely fluid means our players need an extremely high awareness to be able to know who's staying back and who's going forward.

So far, the only player we've seen who can seamlessly go from defending to attacking is Arteta. Song has the ability but not the intelligence to do this; as we've seen in the past, his best defensive performances have come when he's given clear instructions to stay back.

The lack of a shield leaves our defense in too many one on one situations, and even the best defender will commit individual errors if left to hang so many times, hence the reason we concede from individual errors so much more often than others. Add our worst defensive injury situation in years, and tbh it's not entirely surprising.

 

[outlaw_member]

Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Our defense went from

Eboue-Toure-Campbell-Cole in 2006

Eboue-Toure-Senderos-Clichy in 2007

Sagna-Toure-Gallas-Clichy in 2008

Sagna-Vermaelen-Gallas-Clichy in 2009

Sagna-Koscielny-Djourou-Clichy in 2010

Sagna-Koscielny-Mertesacker/Vermaelen-Santos/Gibbs in 2011

Not to mention our ever changing midfield during that period. One reason our defenders look clueless is there is no familiarity between them. A lack of protection from our midfielders is also a big issue. Man United have always had Vidic-Ferdinand-Evra, with an inconsistent right back and Carrick shielding during their 4 title wins in 5 years.

Taking it a step further;

-Gilberto-Fabregas- in 2006

-Gilberto-Fabregas in 2007

-Flamini-Fabregas in 2008

-Denilson-Fabregas in 2009

-Song-Diaby-Fabregas in 2010

-Song-Wilshere-Fabregas in 2011

-Song-Arteta-Rosicky/Ramsey in 2012

 

[Segway]

Oh how we could have used a Gilberto in his prime right now.

 

[a_fourteen]

this has nothing to do with defensive coaches. this has to do with how wenger wants us to play. this is the old total football concept where every outfield player attacks. look at the kind of players we buy across our back line. what do they have in common -- passing and mobility. not the kind of criteria one associated with CBs and LBs historically. he wants the backline to bring the ball forward, overlap with midfielders and attack from everywhere. it's very exiting and on a good day lethal. the problem is when you dont have discipline in your midfield you get punished. that's why it works with barca and not with us. the other problem is how poor we are at set pieces where we simply get muscled off the ball. i saw a picture today of vermaelan and kompany training together for belgium and their physical differences were striking. vermaelan is a better footballer but kompany is simply built better as a defender. if we are to continue like this we need to rethink our midfield and play two holding players who will get possession back in midfield and drop back when the CBs move forward.

 

[fabo]

Yeah Koscielny and Vermaelen are pretty slight, never thought I'd see players of that build as our CB pairing. But they are tough and fairly good aerially. The other side of it is that they can be bullied/manhandled at times by big forwards(Zlatan, Zamora, Norwich's bulldozers etc). Zlatan was swatting Vermaelen(and sometimes Koscielny) away in Milan, was embarassing. Imagine him doing that to Sol Campbell, never.

But they are two good defenders, we'll see what happens next year. Have to get that goals conceded down to 40 at least, anything above that and it's simply not good enough.

 

[fabo]

Worth noting that our set-piece defending improved significantly, would like to see a stat but I'd bet the % of goals conceded from set-pieces is down significantly from the season before. RVP and Szczesny were key in that for me.

 

[Kwaku]

Worth noting that our set-piece defending improved significantly, would like to see a stat but I'd bet the % of goals conceded from set-pieces is down significantly from the season before. RVP and Szczesny were key in that for me.

That is easily the best thing about Szczesny right now, he is dominant in the air when it comes to set-pieces and has taken over the responsibility from the defenders. Arsenal conceded 27% of their goals from set-pieces last season as opposed to 54% in 10/11.

 

[Anzac]

What's wrong = nothing that we haven't been aware of for years so far as on the pitch is concerned.
But judging by the manager's reported response earlier last season when asked about a defensive coaching appointment,
I'd say the root cause is a lack of managerial accountability & unchecked ego.

 

[eye4goal]

The last acceptable figure of 31 goals was back in 2007-08 when we had Flamini protecting our defence(Senderos started 14 PL games that season!). It wasn't just him though. Hleb, Ade, Cesc and Rosicky all worked hard at winning the ball back. They also looked after the ball better than Theo, Gervinho and Ramsey(we're now inferior with and without the ball in comparison)

I also think we have defenders that try to do too much rather than get the best out of those around them. Cole had people like Campbell, Keown, Adams and Dixon babysitting him through games when he was coming through. You don't see that with Gibbs, Coqulin or Miquel.

I think M'vila can solve alot of issues in midfield for us but we also need big improvements from Vermaelen and Gibbs/Santos.

 

[a_fourteen]

The Montpelier guy, Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa, wenger is chasing is similar to Kos nd Verm.

 

[evoh_1]

The Montpelier guy, Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa, wenger is chasing is similar to Kos nd Verm.

He is severely talented though and can play from right to left back, quality player if we can get him in for johan at £7-10 mil.

 

[ArseGod]

I think the biggest problem with our defense is that they dont get nearly enough coverage from MF. TV charges forward and Song doesnt cover. Without Arteta it makes things worse. We dont have a CDM capable of covering and this makes the defense leak goals

 

[a_fourteen]

The Montpelier guy, Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa, wenger is chasing is similar to Kos nd Verm.

He is severely talented though and can play from right to left back, quality player if we can get him in for johan at £7-10 mil.

seems like a quality ball-playing center back but not the strapping type. built very much like kos/verm. wonder if montpelier would entertain a staight swap for either chamakh or diaby?

 

[fabo]

Another ball-player, no thanks.

Bit disappointed that we are not in for any defenders though(well we all know we won't buy any CB's or LB's). Not good enough.

 

[ModelGooner]

Another ball-player, no thanks.

Bit disappointed that we are not in for any defenders though(well we all know we won't buy any CB's or LB's). Not good enough.

Wouldn't be so sure mate. If Djorou actually leaves, with Sagna's injuries I wouldn't be shocked if a defender came in.

 

[a_fourteen]

Plenty of good defenders under 10 mil available this season: Vertonghen, mbwia, abddenour, radu. Just a question of wanting one.

 

[Anzac]

apologies - wrong thread

 

[Mark]

I read somewhere that Man Utd allowed far more shots on goal than we did over the season, but conceded far fewer goals. Our problem is that even if we defend quite well, we make way too many stupid individual errors. It's often down to lazy play from the midfield who should be tracking back as well, so for me it's a coaching thing. We have good defenders on paper, and yet there are teams lower than us in the league with far inferior players who have managed to concede less than us.

 

[Dokaka]

I read somewhere that Man Utd allowed far more shots on goal than we did over the season, but conceded far fewer goals. Our problem is that even if we defend quite well, we make way too many stupid individual errors. It's often down to lazy play from the midfield who should be tracking back as well, so for me it's a coaching thing. We have good defenders on paper, and yet there are teams lower than us in the league with far inferior players who have managed to concede less than us.

It's down to Man Utd not getting caught on the break. They defend as a unit and force the opponent to take long shots which, being a keeper, I can assure everyone on here that it's a much easier time for everyone involved defensively.

Some of the goals have been downright comical honestly.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Rcj_00LQzBI#t=29s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... QzBI#t=29s</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at Song letting his man blow by him there. Song does absolute **** ALL of any use there, it's infuriating to look at. He looks like a 16 year old in his first ever pro match, just looking around trying to get his bearings.

And what is Gibbs doing standing about 20 yards from where he should be.

 

[Anzac]

Some of the goals have been downright comical honestly.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Rcj_00LQzBI#t=29s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... QzBI#t=29s</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at Song letting his man blow by him there. Song does absolute **** ALL of any use there, it's infuriating to look at. He looks like a 16 year old in his first ever pro match, just looking around trying to get his bearings.

And what is Gibbs doing standing about 20 yards from where he should be.

It didn't get any better tbh - some of the goals conceeded v QPR & Norwich were as bad if not worse.