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A very poor Premier League.

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A

Anonymous

Guest
patrick42uk said:
sorry but if you bring up a ridiculous issue like that, you get a ridiculous reply. but i will give you a constructive reply....

All the leagues have their own different features. The spanish league has the high technical ability as you have been saying, whilst the italian league is based on rigid defending, which might be boring but is very effective. The english league's unique feature more than makes up for the lag in tecnique when compared to the spanish league. This feature is determination, and the will to win. An example would be say man utd vs bolton last semptember. Bolton know they might not have the resources or the talent (and technique!) man utd have on show. But their manager had instilled a 11 v 11 menatality in them, it didnt matter what big names utd had playing, at the end day it was player vs player. And no matter what sweet football man utd played that day they found it impossible to break a determned bolton side. In spain, you would rarely see an upset of that proportion. Arsène wenger himself knows the importance of this determination in the english game thats why he was going on about how the current crop of players have inherited this from the english players that had left (i.e. adams, dixon e.t.c). he called it part of the culture of the club. No other league can boast this. Arsenal, though a continental team, have slowly instilled the art of winning ugly which we have seen quite a few times this season. It is for this reason that i feel the english league can hold its own against the elite of europe.


Why is it a ridiculous issue?
Your post proves my point. You say the Spanish league is the best technically and the italian tactically, both of which are true.

Then you say the English makes up for it by having "determination, and the will to win."

That proves my point, and i thank you for it. That has nothing to do with footballing abiltiy. People may run around a lot and try harder, but that adds nothing to sheer quality. The art of defending does not exist in this country. It is a joke. Teams like Milan and Valencia would walk our league.

Again, thank you for proving my point.
 

JazzG

Established Member
JGooner said:
The Wenger approach to managaement in totally non-tactical. it is based on the theory that, as long as you have technically skillful players, the manager's job is simply to get them in the right mental and physical condition - no instructions about tactics, no restrictions on their freedom, etc. this works brilliantly against 75% of teams but, against tacticallly sussed european sides (even weaker ones like kiev), it fails.

That isn't Wenger's approach. That is the english approach. Thats how most teams in england play like in europe, this country isn't about tactics, its about pace mainly.

Watch the Liverpool vs Arsenal game last season at anfield, I doubt you will find many matches in any european league as good as that match. The attacking display was stunning, R.Madrid would of been proud with our first half display. A shame we left empty handed, won't get into that though.........

Like I said the english teams are as good as any european sides. To say otherwise is totally wrong. Tactically we are miles behind. Sven has seen most top european sides, last season he said not a single person could ever convince him our sides aren't as good. Basically tactically we always get it wrong. Man utd could of beaten R.Madrid at old trafford and could of got through, they didn't because Fergie got his tactics horribly wrong. Juve showed the whole world what tactics are about, you see them against r.madrid in the 2nd leg, tactically they were simply perfect. They destroyed R.madrid, yes I mean destroyed.

Lets look at the top 2 leagues in the world. Has anyone noticed why do the italiens usually get the better of the spanish, its because tactically they are much better.

So basically what I'm saying is our teams are as good, just our tactics aren't right
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
JazzG said:
JGooner said:
The Wenger approach to managaement in totally non-tactical. it is based on the theory that, as long as you have technically skillful players, the manager's job is simply to get them in the right mental and physical condition - no instructions about tactics, no restrictions on their freedom, etc. this works brilliantly against 75% of teams but, against tacticallly sussed european sides (even weaker ones like kiev), it fails.


So basically what I'm saying is our teams are as good, just our tactics aren't right

Another post that proves my point.

Ever thought why it is that we are so hopeless tactically?
it is because the standard of team in the EPL is so very average that Arsneal/Mancs/Chelsea can basically put 11 players on the pitch with the aim of scoring more goals, and it works, as the table shows year in year out.
This approach though, will not work in Europe.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sol said:
it is because the standard of team in the EPL is so very average that Arsneal/Mancs/Chelsea can basically put 11 players on the pitch with the aim of scoring more goals
Funny, I always thought that was the objective of football, to score more goals and the other team.

Everyday is a school day ...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oh, and as for the teams in Europe being better tactically - I think you will find that despite Arsenal's poor approach to tactics, Italian teams have a poor record against us at Highbury.

Maybe their tactica aren't good enough ...

Oh, and we also have an excellent record against German teams.

I don't know, could just be that our objective is to score more goals than the opposition!

Just a wild guess.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ASHBURRN said:
Sol said:
it is because the standard of team in the EPL is so very average that Arsneal/Mancs/Chelsea can basically put 11 players on the pitch with the aim of scoring more goals
Funny, I always thought that was the objective of football, to score more goals and the other team.

Everyday is a school day ...


Almost a good attempt at sounding patronising.

I meant clever arse that they are able just to go out on the pitch and play, without any form of 'tactics,' something which if you do in Europe you will be found out. And something also you cant do in Italy or Spain.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ASHBURRN said:
Oh, and as for the teams in Europe being better tactically - I think you will find that despite Arsenal's poor approach to tactics, Italian teams have a poor record against us at Highbury.

Maybe their tactica aren't good enough ...

Oh, and we also have an excellent record against German teams.

I don't know, could just be that our objective is to score more goals than the opposition!

Just a wild guess.


So? We can beat them in one off games.

Just remind me of our overall record. Just a wild guess, but i think it is crap.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sol said:
Almost a good attempt at sounding patronising.

I meant clever arse that they are able just to go out on the pitch and play, without any form of 'tactics,' something which if you do in Europe you will be found out. And something also you cant do in Italy or Spain.
Are you saying that Wenger, Fergie and Ranieri don't use any form of tactics in the Premier League?

Good grief. Who needs a manager then, eh? Just tell them 11 lads to go out on the pitch and play.

No wonder Man Utd lost to Fulham. And Arsenal beat Chelsea. Without any form of tactics.

Oh I don't know about the Spanish or Italian league. You seem to be much more of an expert, but I can just voucher a thought that I think their objective is to go out and score more goals than the opposition.

Always a good tactic to me.

Of course, unless the rules have changed ...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sol said:
Just remind me of our overall record. Just a wild guess, but i think it is crap.
Since you asked for it:


v Juventus:
P W D L F A
4 2 1 1 5 3

v Lazio
P W D L F A
4 2 2 0 7 3

And there is that 0-3 lost to Inter.

Hardly "crap", as you put it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ASHBURRN said:
Sol said:
Almost a good attempt at sounding patronising.

I meant clever arse that they are able just to go out on the pitch and play, without any form of 'tactics,' something which if you do in Europe you will be found out. And something also you cant do in Italy or Spain.
Are you saying that Wenger, Fergie and Ranieri don't use any form of tactics in the Premier League?

Good grief. Who needs a manager then, eh? Just tell them 11 lads to go out on the pitch and play.

No wonder Man Utd lost to Fulham. And Arsenal beat Chelsea. Without any form of tactics.

Oh I don't know about the Spanish or Italian league. You seem to be much more of an expert, but I can just voucher a thought that I think their objective is to go out and score more goals than the opposition.

Always a good tactic to me.

Of course, unless the rules have changed ...
But Ash your tactics are for 1 game you go on about the fulham match but thats a blip in a Season where you play with fresh players in May.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
myth said:
But Ash your tactics are for 1 game you go on about the fulham match but thats a blip in a Season where you play with fresh players in May.
Read my post again, follow the thread, and you'll see where I'm coming from.
 

Sammer

Established Member
I don´t agree with Sol at all.

Besides the fact, that the most exciting football is being played in the EPL, tactics are not a matter of a country or a league, but a matter of the coach applying tactics.

It might be, that no english team has the class of Juve, Real or AC Milan at this moment.

But that is not a sign of some kind of decay of the EPL. In contrary: why is it that so many foreigners (like me), are really excited about watching EPL games?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ASHBURRN said:
Sol said:
Just remind me of our overall record. Just a wild guess, but i think it is crap.
Since you asked for it:


v Juventus:
P W D L F A
4 2 1 1 5 3

v Lazio
P W D L F A
4 2 2 0 7 3

And there is that 0-3 lost to Inter.

Hardly "crap", as you put it.

I asked for the "overall" record.

That is not what you have given me.
 
I am with Ash here.
If the italians have so good tactics how we then have great record against them.3:1 against juventus,3:1 against Roma,2:0 against Lazio.They are all top italian teams.
How manure trashed juve in torino last year then?How chelsea defeated Lazio?
Even Liverpool trashed Roma two years ago.
And i don't have to remind you that the Italians have been pretty crap in CL before last year.They couldn't even qualify and go to the second round.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sol said:
I asked for the "overall" record.

That is not what you have given me.
Eh? How overall can you get than that?

It's an overall record against Juve, home and away, against Lazio, and against Inter.

I forgot Roma, thanks for reminding me about that 3-1 win and the 1-1 draw against them.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ASHBURRN said:
Sol said:
I asked for the "overall" record.

That is not what you have given me.
Eh? How overall can you get than that?

It's an overall record against Juve, home and away, against Lazio, and against Inter.

I forgot Roma, thanks for reminding me about that 3-1 win and the 1-1 draw against them.

LOL.
What part of the word 'overall' do you not understand.

Overall - 'in view of all the circumstances or conditions'
'with everyone or everything taken into account'

You for some reason are only giving the record against Italian clubs, which is not our 'overall' (that word again) record.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sol said:
ASHBURRN said:
Oh, and as for the teams in Europe being better tactically - I think you will find that despite Arsenal's poor approach to tactics, Italian teams have a poor record against us at Highbury.

Maybe their tactica aren't good enough ...

Oh, and we also have an excellent record against German teams.

I don't know, could just be that our objective is to score more goals than the opposition!

Just a wild guess.
So? We can beat them in one off games.

Just remind me of our overall record. Just a wild guess, but i think it is crap.
Um, I think I was talking about Italian teams in the post you replied to.

And if you want our record against German teams (again I meantioned this in the post you replied to) ...

v Borussia Dortmund
P W D L F A
2 1 0 1 3 2

v Bayer Leverkusen
P W D L F A
2 1 1 0 5 2

v Bayern Munich
P W D L F A
2 0 1 1 2 3

Again, hardly crap. I think the only think that's crap and "overall" here is that your "overall argument has been proven to be crap."

And if you want to take into account the conditions and situations - those records are for both Home and Away.

Against Juventus, when we won 3-1, we had an 18-yr old Stuart Taylor in goal.

Against Bayern Munich at Highbury we were leading 2-0 before the Germans equalised from set pieces.

Against Borussia Dortmund / Leverkusen, we only drew away because of a late dive by Basturk and the free kick resulting free kick resulted in their equaliser.

Being an Arsenal fan, I thought you would have known all this already.

You, sir, are posting a load of tosh.
 

Alexone234

Well-Known Member
British team consistantly under perform in Europe, with Arsenal underperforming more than most.

Manure are still no real force in Europe, not like Juve or Real. We are not even in Europe and our third and forth place entrants rarely get out of group stage two.
 

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