Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[Aevi]

The best choice is to be undecided.

The value of a manager at this club is whether or not they can bring us silverware. It's a fair assessment; Arsenal is a big club and should have ambitions that match it. Do we know if Arsène has what it takes to bring us the silverware this season? If you put bias aside, the answer is no. We've started off pretty well, but the doubts are whether we can go through a whole season doing well. Sure, Wenger has had trouble with this consistency in the past, but this is the best squad he has had in years. We've just seen some of the best football we've seen in ages. It's neither illogical to say that this year will be no different, nor to say that this year will be different.

All we can do is wait until May to know if Wenger deserves a new deal. Then, and only then will we have seen enough to evaluate him properly.

 

[Doom]

I would ask him why could he not have brought someone better than Almunia?

He probably didn't want to kill Szczesney. . .

If memory serves we didn't even buy Almunia. Celta gave him to us in part exchange for writing of a debt.

 

[Doom]

The best choice is to be undecided.

The value of a manager at this club is whether or not they can bring us silverware. It's a fair assessment; Arsenal is a big club and should have ambitions that match it. Do we know if Arsène has what it takes to bring us the silverware this season? If you put bias aside, the answer is no. We've started off pretty well, but the doubts are whether we can go through a whole season doing well. Sure, Wenger has had trouble with this consistency in the past, but this is the best squad he has had in years. We've just seen some of the best football we've seen in ages. It's neither illogical to say that this year will be no different, nor to say that this year will be different.

All we can do is wait until May to know if Wenger deserves a new deal. Then, and only then will we have seen enough to evaluate him properly.

Consistency is a strange concept when you think about it.

For a start it requires that you discount the opposition. Like Basel were consistently winning games in the Swiss league until we demolished them.

Then there is the question of how does it work in practice? Does a manager suddenly forget one day how to set a team up?

It often looks to me like 'consistency', or lack of same, is a convenient narrative that can be tailored to any assemblage of results and doesn't really explain anything.

Consider which is the better explanation:

Arsenal consistently flop in R16 of CL because the players (including the World Cup, Copa America etc winners) lack bottle and Wenger's tactically naive.

Or

Barca and Bayern are better than Arsenal and as expected beat them in a match up*.

Anyway for what it's worth I think the bigger squad means we'll seriously compete in the PL this season.

*I know Monaco. But Monaco are still a good side. We should have won but it's not the biggest shock result I've ever seen.

 

[Makingtrax]

The best choice is to be undecided.

The value of a manager at this club is whether or not they can bring us silverware. It's a fair assessment; Arsenal is a big club and should have ambitions that match it. Do we know if Arsène has what it takes to bring us the silverware this season? If you put bias aside, the answer is no. We've started off pretty well, but the doubts are whether we can go through a whole season doing well. Sure, Wenger has had trouble with this consistency in the past, but this is the best squad he has had in years. We've just seen some of the best football we've seen in ages. It's neither illogical to say that this year will be no different, nor to say that this year will be different.

All we can do is wait until May to know if Wenger deserves a new deal. Then, and only then will we have seen enough to evaluate him properly.

In answer to your question: 'putting bias aside, the answer is yes'. In the last three seasons since shaking off some of the debt burden he's won silverware in two of them and runner up in the other.

And as you say, the squad has improved this season. So why is the answer 'no'?

 

[RUS arsenal]

As long as Arsène is motivated, hungry for silverware and committed to the club, I say keep him as our manager. I guarantee that once he leaves, 99% of Arsenal fans will wish he could've stayed longer after a few years with new manager(s).

 

[Makingtrax]

If he wins the league, I'll be happy to see him have another go at retaining it. But the truth is he didn't deserve another shot after the clusterfvck of last preseason, and the subsequent humiliation of finishing behind Leicester, in a penalty kick of a chance of winning the league.

Even his nearest and dearest thought last season was sh!t or bust.

It's pure and unadulterated spin to say that Arsenal were a clusterf*** last season. The anti-Wenger lobby on here use the phrase all the time.

We came second. What does say about the other eighteen EPL teams beneath us . . . is there even a word more derogatory than 'clusterf*ck' for their seasons.

Its absolute f***ing nonsense is what it is.

 

[Batman]

Trump is 70 and running for arguably the biggest job in the world. Wenger appears to be fit and well so there are probably larger issues than age here.

Don't bring Trump up in defense of anything. The man is a joke and an abomination and cannot be used as a serious argument for anything other than sterilization. As for Wenger, I'd be fine with a new deal for him IF we win the league or at the very least mount a serious title challenge IE finishing within 5 points and looking like contenders all year. Also, failing to win the league he'd better get us past the last 16 in the CL and or lift the FA Cup.

 

[Polar Bear]

No. Its time to move on and we need a fresh new younger manager with new ideas. Its stale and has been for a long time. I know we are on a good patch of results at the moment so everyone is just gonna make their judgment on that, but for me its only after the full 38. I hope he goes at end of season, its the best way. IF we win the prem then I'll be totally wrong and shocked, but I know whats gonna end up happening as usual, so hopefully this is the last season.

 

[Godwin1]

Obviously on the back of last season the answer is no and I expect this season will be like most others where we take a downward trajectory at a similar time.

If Wenger is going or not however has probably been decided already. I doubt he would spring his retirement on the board at the end of the season without them having a solid plan of action in place.

 

[Gooner Zig]

I pretty much echo @Batman sentiments

- Sustained title challenge;
- Progress in the CL
- Evolution of the style and substance of our play

Those are what's required for me, for Arsène to be given a new contract.

The first two remain to be seen but to Arsène's credit, there is definite progress in our performances over the past 5 league games (barring Southampton). Compared to last season at any rate.

 

[Aevi]

In answer to your question: 'putting bias aside, the answer is yes'. In the last three seasons since shaking off some of the debt burden he's won silverware in two of them and runner up in the other.

And as you say, the squad has improved this season. So why is the answer 'no'?

The answer is 'no' because there are cases for both sides. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the cases people like @Jury are making are also valid. No major silverware for 10 years, even with the stadium switch, is concerning for a club of our size. Also, who is to say the team won't crumble somewhere along the course of the season, as it has done over the past couple ones? The thing is, we don't know whether it will or not because it hasn't happened yet. None of us know the in-depth schematics of the club. None of us can predict what will happen over the next several months. We're on a high, but 4 bad games and the mindset will be prominently "Wenger Out" all over again. Better to wait and see if Wenger really does deliver the results.

I'm a huge fan of Wenger, he's a big reason for why I support the club. When I first came on the site, I defended him and the "stadium switch years" a lot. But now that those years are in the past, I'd like to start seeing progress. A strong title challenge. Hopefully, an actual league title. An improved run in the CL. Something indicating the team is making strides in the right direction. This is his strongest team in ages, well let's see it used. Meanwhile, we just don't know if this season will show he deserves a contract, so there's no point in making our minds up about it yet.

 

[Swallow]

I voted yes simply because we were successful with with him when we weren't shacked financially so he will do it again now that we are free. He sacrificed 10 years of his carrier to help put this club where it is now. So if there is anyone out there who deserves to enjoy the fruit of his labour, it's he. Not that I don't believe that he can win the league anymore, but it is not a requirement for me. In my opinion he scaled much greater heights than winning a trophy or two, stirring the ship safely through the turbulent and murky waters from 2005 to 2013.

 

[Makingtrax]

Don't bring Trump up in defense of anything. The man is a joke and an abomination and cannot be used as a serious argument for anything other than sterilization. As for Wenger, I'd be fine with a new deal for him IF we win the league or at the very least mount a serious title challenge IE finishing within 5 points and looking like contenders all year. Also, failing to win the league he'd better get us past the last 16 in the CL and or lift the FA Cup.

You're right, Trump shouldn't really be mentioned in any context with Wenger, and is a pretty f*cked up example of a human being . . . even for a country that elected Bush, twice.

But then again if we're talking about 'shoot youself in the foot' political elections dominated by the less intelligent . . . we had Brexit. So we don't have the right to cast political aspersions in any direction.

Back to Wenger, what you wrote seems fair to be honest.

 

[amirkat]

Absolutely not.

He should have left in 2014 after the FA Cup win imo.

But some people, understandably, thought he deserved a shot with all the new commercial deals coming through. I don't see what he's done to deserve another one now.

We are only prolonging the inevitable.

 

[say yes]

It's pure and unadulterated spin to say that Arsenal were a clusterf*** last season. The anti-Wenger lobby on here use the phrase all the time.

We came second. What does say about the other eighteen EPL teams beneath us . . . is there even a word more derogatory than 'clusterf*ck' for their seasons.

Its absolute f***ing nonsense is what it is.

Last season was an embarrassment, there are no two ways about it. Nothing to do with being 'anti-Wenger' (I voted yes).

Don't think Wenger himself would disagree - interesting hearing him tell Henry that the United loss last season was the worst moment of his career.

What does that make of the teams who finished below us? Ask Van Gaal, Mourinho, Rodgers or Pellegrini.

 

[say yes]

Give him a new contract and then sack him if he's ****.

 

[rich 1990]

I have a feeling that your feelings could be wrong. The polls in the national newspapers show overwhelmingly that Arsenal fans want him to stay. And the AM poll at the top of this thread is following a less but similar pattern.

So perhaps you're speaking for the minority mate.

Cos we're on a good run of form. Those polls, like yours Noel, will change IF we start to fall apart.

 

[Makingtrax]

Last season was an embarrassment, there are no two ways about it.

Yeah, so you keep telling us. But the thing is there are two ways about it. Your spin - trying make the team and Wenger look like amateurs, and the truth - which is that we weren't good enough to win the league but did better than 18 other clubs in the EPL.

Wenger may have been heart broken at losing to United but he thrashed them in the first encounter. And he also beat Leicester twice, which non of the other managers did, and he didn't lose the last two games of the season in a spectacular bottle job like Sp**s did.

Never change mate

 

[rich 1990]

Yeah, so you keep telling us. But the thing is there are two ways about it. Your spin - trying make the team and Wenger look like amateurs, and the truth - which is that we weren't good enough to win the league but did better than 18 other clubs in the EPL.

Wenger may have been heart broken at losing to United but he thrashed them in the first encounter. And he also beat Leicester twice, which non of the other managers did, and he didn't lose the last two games of the season in a spectacular bottle job like Sp**s did.

Never change mate

You're inability to accept criticism of Wenger is just as bad as the eternal pessimists. You won't blow up criticising him just once. We could have won the league by having better cover for Coquelin then Flamini and another striker while Giroud couldn't hit a barndoor. 4 months without your cf scoring is embarrassing. Leicester's final points total was hardly insurmountable.

 

[Makingtrax]

Cos we're on a good run of form. Those polls, like yours Noel, will change IF we start to fall apart.

Are you trying to say our fans are fickle?