Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[Makingtrax]

Please do. So we can all be enlightened as to how unentertaining the league is and that we should all give up the sport and turn to something else. Because if squad cost is THE MOST important factor as you say then proving that should lose this sport millions of viewers.. Nobody wants to watch a rigged league. Which is what you've effectively saying. Refuting of course the fact that this league is played game by game and there have been plenty of games Arsenal FC were absolutely himuliated in by a squad half the cost of theirs. Which highlights two things.
1) Squad cost means nothing on the day
2) Wenger is a **** tactician.

You're right on all counts. It means nothing on the day, just finishing position over a season.

And the leagues are rigged, absolutely. But nevertheless the poorer EPL teams like West Brom take part, and their fans enjoy the matches even though they have only a very small probability of wining the league against United, City and Chelsea.

Money only becomes irrelevant between teams with a similar spend like United and City.

 

[Mark Tobias]

You're right on all counts. It means nothing on the day, just finishing position over a season.

.

This is a contradiction. You have 38 "On the day" moments in a season. If squad cost doesn't count on the day for any of them individually then how does it directly affect the season.
Nobody is saying money doesn't get you in the race. We know it does. But you've just proved everyone's point here...

"Money only becomes irrelevant between teams with a similar spend like United and City." - You've never stated anything remotely like this before. Even when other posters have suggested this is the way it works.

You use Squad cost as a means to defend Wenger but then ignore these very points... Which are the MAIN factors why we want him gone.
Defending him this season using that is impossible. By your own admission, he has failed this season. I say he has failed for 3 years plus now. No more than that. But enough time to be given the sack.

Suppose it isn't much of as secret that us Wenger outs want a new manager to prove once and for all how far down Wenger has spiralled. And that is the saddest part about this all. Had he retired after the FA cup, he'd have left with a much bigger following. It is this stubborness to let go that will see him, although still greatly admired, reitre with far less fans than he could have. And that is all him!

 

[allegro]

He is doing his usual trick of lowering expectations and then scraping through with slightly better performance at the last minute. But it's not good enough any more. His management has created a kind of peverse statis where nothing ever changes, for better or worse. What we desperately need is some fresh ideas. Changing managers might bring less "success" in the short term (maybe longer, who knows) but I would have no problem with that. We know what we will get with another few years of Wenger and it isn't very interesting. We need to roll the dice and finally try something else, after all these years of squeezing the Wenger comfort blanket.

But he will cling to power like all dictators, and he is amazingly good at it too. I thought we might finally be rid of him a few weeks ago, but no, he claws his way up the table and we may yet scrape top 4 and the FA cup. If so, that will give our board all the excuse they need to give him that shiny new contract and we will all have to endure another few years of the same tepid crap until he finally leaves.

Yes just like Inspector Clouseau always somehow manages to bumble his way to catch his man in the end, yet nobody knows how he did it!

He definitely has lowered standards (citing his 20 year qualification for CL against our previous managers records, when everyone knows in 'the day' you needed to be a Champion to qualify. Also there was a manager only recent to him George Graham who actually WON a European trophy! So why a journo never quoted that back and said well "if you go like for like" you will have qualified 3 times in 20 years and NEVER won a European trophy. Record dont look so good then does it?

Even last night suddenly another rancid inept first 45 mins becomes a "dynamic performance". So you are perfectly right my friend he certainly DOES lower expectation and standards.

 

[Makingtrax]

This is a contradiction. You have 38 "On the day" moments in a season. If squad cost doesn't count on the day for any of them individually then how does it directly affect the season.
Nobody is saying money doesn't get you in the race. We know it does. But you've just proved everyone's point here...

"Money only becomes irrelevant between teams with a similar spend like United and City." - You've never stated anything remotely like this before. Even when other posters have suggested this is the way it works.

You use Squad cost as a means to defend Wenger but then ignore these very points... Which are the MAIN factors why we want him gone.
Defending him this season using that is impossible. By your own admission, he has failed this season. I say he has failed for 3 years plus now. No more than that. But enough time to be given the sack.

Suppose it isn't much of as secret that us Wenger outs want a new manager to prove once and for all how far down Wenger has spiralled. And that is the saddest part about this all. Had he retired after the FA cup, he'd have left with a much bigger following. It is this stubborness to let go that will see him, although still greatly admired, reitre with far less fans than he could have. And that is all him!

That's how probabilty works. You know a coin toss is 50:50 heads/tails. But that's only long term. Short term you might get 3 heads in a row. No contradiction. It's just maths.

Team spend doesn't defend Wenger this season. He has the 4th richest squad and will most likely finish 5th.

 

[Mark Tobias]

That's how probabilty works. You know a coin toss is 50:50 heads/tails. But that's only long term. .

You clearly don't understand probability if you think that is how it works. The whole point of the 50:50 coin toss is that is is ALWAYS 50:50. It has nothing to do with duration or number of tosses. It is always 50:50.

Also, worth noting there is a miniscule chance the coin lands on its side. So 50:50 is not accurate.

Also, with this rubbish example we may as well send out our squad and say don't worry lads. The squad cost probability rule will have us in the right position come end of May. Which seems to be basically what Wenger is doing.

 

[Mark Tobias]

What is even more sad is that all the evidence for making the decision in the title of this thread can be found in EVERY OTHER ****ING THREAD here on this forum.

 

[Makingtrax]

You clearly don't understand probability if you think that is how it works. The whole point of the 50:50 coin toss is that is is ALWAYS 50:50. It has nothing to do with duration or number of tosses. It is always 50:50.

Also, worth noting there is a miniscule chance the coin lands on its side. So 50:50 is not accurate.

Also, with this rubbish example we may as well send out our squad and say don't worry lads. The squad cost probability rule will have us in the right position come end of May. Which seems to be basically what Wenger is doing.

Like to stay away from saying people are deluded or don't understand something, like Wenger's critics do.

Of course it's 50:50 every throw. But only long term results prove that, 3 or 4 throws might all be heads. By the same token one football team might be equal with another team in skill and ability, but could lose three or four games in a row by the laws of probability. But the fans will look for reasons why they're losing, like one manager's got another's number and sh*te like that.

 

[fabo]

We're 11 points behind Tottenham. We finished 10 points behind Leicester last season.

Wenger should be fired.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yeah, f*** off Wenger. If you think we're going to give you any credit for beating Sp**s 20 years running, you can think again.

 

[Aevi]

Looks like he's staying then...

 

[Mark Tobias]

but could lose three or four games in a row by the laws of probability.

BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA. Teams losing by the laws of probability. Brilliant stuff.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Yeah, f*** off Wenger. If you think we're going to give you any credit for beating Sp**s 20 years running, you can think again.

This is a standard he set for himself. If you can't see he is taking the club backwards behind his own standards then there is something wrong.

 

[notafan]

The damage that Arsène Wenger is doing to his own reputation each year that goes by is pretty evident from some of the posts in this forum. We are now getting posters who are doubting his contribution to the double and the Invincibles.

As for the futile "squad cost" "debate" (to give it a credibility it doesn't deserve) it is pretty irrelevant to the debate on Wenger - because a low squad cost was in effect his decision. It was what he wanted. And for noble, honourable reasons.

IIRC (Arsenal fans will correct me if I am wrong) he was one of the strongest advocates of the move to the Emirates. One of the reasons given was that it would enable you to compete with the really big clubs.

That might well be true. However I suspect that to Arsène it was a perfect excuse for low squad spend. He wanted to prove that a genius manager such as himself, could beat the big spenders. He wanted the odds stacked against him. He wanted to be a gallant noble David trouncing the evil Goliaths which increasingly the "big" clubs were becoming. And I, and I would expect millions of other football fans (except the fans of the Goliaths) wanted him to succeed.

Who wouldn't want a low spending club with a well-spoken manager, with the demeanour of a university professor, to triumph over clubs whose budgets had been artificially inflated by money from corrupt Russian gangsters and tyrannical oil sheikhs? And who wouldn't want someone like Arsène to be the face of the EPL, rather than such as Wayne Rooney, Joey Barton, Sam Allardyce, Steve McLaren etc.?

Until a couple of seasons ago I was a real fan of Wenger's. I thought that much of the discontent among Arsenal fans was thoughtless and ungrateful, considering all that had been achieved in his early years. But then came that summer when it became clear that he had little or no regard for the fans of the club - when he behaved like a devious con-man - and entered the season having made no signings other than Petr Cech.

And having previously asserted that squad spend was of little importance, he now began using his low squad spend as an excuse for his failures. From being an opponent of "squad spend is the most important factor" theory, he becomes a supporter. And then at last comes the big squad spend, something it seems he could have been doing for quite a few seasons. Yes, Kroenke is the real poison in the Arsenal set-up, but he knows you have to invest if Arsenal is to continue to be a cash cow.

And what is the result of the big spend? It would be wrong to draw conclusions from just one season, but many might wonder whether this shows that low squad spend was yet another excuse behind which Wenger could hide, whether in fact he was afraid of spending big because he might be exposed as someone who didn't have much judgment on the value of players. And this from a man who asserts that he and he alone will make all the important decisions on the footballing side of the club.

I am not an Arsenal fan. I am still, residually, an admirer of Wenger, at least of his earlier Arsenal years. I would hope that all true friends of the great man - not the sycophants, toadies, groupies etc. - would now be advising him that the end of this season is time to give it a rest. And perhaps go out on a blaze of glory by defeating the Russian gangster's plaything in the Cup Final.

 

[Makingtrax]

BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA. Teams losing by the laws of probability. Brilliant stuff.

Sorry, forgot chance doesn't come into football. . . . like a bouncing ricochet or ref wrongly calling a pen etc.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Sorry, forgot chance doesn't come into football. . . . like a bouncing ricochet or ref wrongly calling a pen etc.

WTF does that have to do with squad cost though? There is no way of measuring the probability of a ref giving a pen etc. WHat are you talking about?

 

[Godwin1]

But the fans will look for reasons why they're losing, like one manager's got another's number and sh*te like that.

Those damn fans, looking for reasons why we lost! When will they learn that losses are simply down to the squad cost probability matrix?

 

[GDeep™]

Looking at what **** Law says he does, maybe it's him who should leave.

 

[Godwin1]

Looking at what **** Law says he does, maybe it's him who should leave.

"My job is to help the CEO and manager with squad planning, contract negotiations, negotiations with agents, player transfers."

Yep needs replacing.

 

[Makingtrax]

WTF does that have to do with squad cost though? There is no way of measuring the probability of a ref giving a pen etc. WHat are you talking about?

Got a mate who does that . . loses the thread of the discussion and then says what are you talking about.

Off to the gym.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Looking at what **** Law says he does, maybe it's him who should leave.

Read somewhere he was reasonable for that 40m+1 offer for Suarez and also missed the flight to Madrid in Özil saga...