Ethan Nwaneri: Se Queda

[lomekian]

People absolutely loved Dan Crowley. I didn't think he was quite as good as others did but I thought highly enough of him that I thought he was talented and had a shot. He was like a Ben Cottrell. Scrappy but technical. Had a bit of flair but not much substance in the end. A very good punt at the time that didn't quite pay off. Remember the first couple seasons we all thought he was super promising.

I really wish we were able to nab Chukwuemeka but he might be in danger of ending up in the abyss too, all because he made that silly move to Chelsea! Penny for Hutchinsons thoughts too - I hope he at least got paid nice

Never thought Crowley would make it to be honest. Hutchinson I had high hopes for, but even before his move, he started increasingly playing 'look at me hero ball' - if you can't use your teammates you won't cut it at this level, and his play became more selfish as the season progressed. Him going to Chelsea looked stupid and has all but been proven as such. Quite why you'd go from a club with only 2 ahead of you in the pecking order to one with 4 or 5, with a history of big money signings and wasting youth talent is beyond me. He likely wold have got more minutes here to be honest. Chukwuemeka would have more looks here too looking at his type and position.

As for Ethan, if he goes to Man City, it strikes me as either the height of stupidity or under the counter dosh again, because they've a brilliant youth set up and haven't given much of a look to them, and have a model of buying elite players to sit their bench. Arsenal will always give some kids chances because they can't financially not, but City & Chavski don't have to given chances to anyone unless a) transfer ban or b) Foden level talent.

Again I could understand if 18 or 19 and not had a look in, or going to much better training environment, or going to a club like Dortmund whose whole model is to give elite kids chances early. But uprooting your life to go to a similarly sized club, with no real youth usage model is odd, particularly when the club you leave has made you the youngest debutant in the hardest league in the world, and is fast tracking you through their system. If he stays lets hope he kicks on, and if he leaves for the ££ lets hope he becomes yet another cautionary tale to add to the huge list out there.

 

[SuperMikel]

Very rarely do prospects touted so young make it. Im sure City are doing it just because they run a football farm rather than a structured academy that provides pathways for first team football, and they see Nwarneri as another commodity to invest in now and sell for 5m a few years from now.

As for Nwaneri, Ive heard this guys dad is a big influence and is likely to have been lobbied by City. Almost bet Ethans dad starts cruising around in a Ferrari and strutting up and down the estate in Gucci. He is one of those overbearing people who wouldn't hesitate to shamelessly shaft his kids life for short term material gain.

Here he would have been Saka. At City he will be John Bostock.

 

[Tom349]

I agree with most of this. But it does have to be hard advising a young footballer what is the best thing to do.

1. Cash in now, or gamble your floor versus your ceiling? Nwaneri certainly has talent, but he's still very young, not already obviously a physical specimen against fully grown men, and who knows yet if it's prodigious talent that will stand up for ever, or if it will even out a bit once all the u18s fill out into adult size bodies. This might be his one chance at a contract most teenagers would regard as life changing.

2. Position has to matter. Goalkeepers are never changed. CBs rarely are. Most common substitute has to be throwing in a new striker for the last 10-15 minutes. Other positions somewhere in between. Easy for Arteta to promise Nketiah that, worst case scenario, he's getting the last 10-15 of every game. Harder to promise minutes to a youngster the further back on the pitch you play. (Doesn't explain City, but does explain why he might want to leave).

3. Positional flexibility matters. Saka seized the opportunity with both hands, but despite being an out-and-out winger, he was willing to come on as left wing back. It was good. It got him on the pitch. And it meant that most of his first attempts at dribbling past a PL player as a 17-year-old were against midfielders covering an overlap, not lockdown defenders. By contrast (I don't know if it's true, but it was always strongly rumored) AMN insisted he was a AM, not a right back. I have no idea where Nwaneri falls on the Saka-AMN spectrum; if I knew, it would influence the advice I'd give him.

4. Patino. I'll miss him. Best teenage technical talent since Cesc. But Cesc had Viera marauding behind him, and the game has moved on anyway. I want Patino, but it probably doesn't make sense for him, either. We can't get him where he's supposed to be. (Just watch him end up being the DeBruyne replacement in a few years. Or playing Championship football still. Or being a financial advisor once he finishes up his University studies. Who knows).

Anyway, I wouldn't advise Nwaneri to sign with City. But I'm glad it's not my job to give these players advice either way.

Incredibly important. It's why I won't be shocked if MLS is featuring in games as early as next season as he could potentially play the same role as Zincenko. Still very young though so may not be rushed but it won't be long to he is called up.

Timing also matters. Take Patino who is seeing us strongly linked with Rice and Caicedo both who have 10 plus years ahead of them. Patino not only has the dethrone the current midfield set up but will also potentially have to dethrone the next midfield set up. If we was two years older with more development than maybe we are looking at him as our main option to step up and take over from Partey/Xhaka but were not going to take that risk after a mixed long spell at the age of 19.

 

[9jagooner]

Never thought Crowley would make it to be honest. Hutchinson I had high hopes for, but even before his move, he started increasingly playing 'look at me hero ball' - if you can't use your teammates you won't cut it at this level, and his play became more selfish as the season progressed. Him going to Chelsea looked stupid and has all but been proven as such. Quite why you'd go from a club with only 2 ahead of you in the pecking order to one with 4 or 5, with a history of big money signings and wasting youth talent is beyond me. He likely wold have got more minutes here to be honest. Chukwuemeka would have more looks here too looking at his type and position.

As for Ethan, if he goes to Man City, it strikes me as either the height of stupidity or under the counter dosh again, because they've a brilliant youth set up and haven't given much of a look to them, and have a model of buying elite players to sit their bench. Arsenal will always give some kids chances because they can't financially not, but City & Chavski don't have to given chances to anyone unless a) transfer ban or b) Foden level talent.

Again I could understand if 18 or 19 and not had a look in, or going to much better training environment, or going to a club like Dortmund whose whole model is to give elite kids chances early. But uprooting your life to go to a similarly sized club, with no real youth usage model is odd, particularly when the club you leave has made you the youngest debutant in the hardest league in the world, and is fast tracking you through their system. If he stays lets hope he kicks on, and if he leaves for the ££ lets hope he becomes yet another cautionary tale to add to the huge list out there.

Not sure what you guys are saying but Crowley was one of the bright stars we had at that time. Only his attitude was in question. Almost same as JET from years before. I called him right-footed Jack Wilshere.

Hopefully Ethan looks at Omari and stays at Arsenal. Thing is, I am not even sure he is ready for first team yet so if he thinks he will get into City first team, well, good for him.

It's good for us to have players who want to stay and play for The Arsenal.

 

[lomekian]

Not sure what you guys are saying but Crowley was one of the bright stars we had at that time. Only his attitude was in question. Almost same as JET from years before. I called him right-footed Jack Wilshere.

Hopefully Ethan looks at Omari and stays at Arsenal. Thing is, I am not even sure he is ready for first team yet so if he thinks he will get into City first team, well, good for him.

It's good for us to have players who want to stay and play for The Arsenal.

Saw a lot of Crowley but never thought he'd make it. Lovely technique and adventure with his game, but questionable decision making, a lack of explosiveness and not the fire/drive at key moments needed to make the step up to the highest level. Jack was miles ahead in terms of game intelligence and ability to run the show. JET had power and skill in abundance, but it always looked like he lacked the motor to make the most of it.

Not many of the kids that do or don't make it really surprise me, because you can often see quite early who has a first team 'type' game. Of course, very hard to predict physical development and focus levels, but even at the clubs worst, the Arsenal first team is an incredibly high level, so only those who both stand out AND have pro stylistic elements quite early have a real chance.

Iwobi took me by surprise, and I thought Akpom would do more, and Nelson I really expected to have more of an impact before now.

Like with the current u21s, there are lots you see who you can tell will make careers in the game, but its only in the most exceptional youth groups that you think more than 1 or 2 ever have a chance at the Arsenal first team.

In Jack's team it was obvious he would, and Le Coq had a very translatable game. I was high on Lansbury too, but that glandular fever really hurt his development. But it was still a very strong group, because most of them have had good careers, and the likes of Frimpong, JET, Watt, Ozyakup, Eastmond & Bartley all got a well deserved look at first team level, even though none of them had the game for our level. I like Ayling in that group too, but sadly he didn't have any single exceptional attribute.

I expected more from AMN at Arsenal, and its a shame TJJ's career has been constantly derailed by injury, as at the age of 18 he was probably ahead of Balogun - really smart adaptable game.

Of the current lot, the u21s are pretty weak, with only Edwards and Sagoe Jnr having a chance of the boys too old for the youth cup (Awe maybe as a long shot I guess, and BNC on loan). This years youth cup squad has rather more intriguing prospects, with ACD, MLS, Sousa, Walters, Rosiak, and maybe even Ibrahim and Kamara all showing enough to give some hope at maybe getting a first team look down the line, even if Nwaneri leaves. There are even 2 or 3 others who could come into contention if they have an Iwobi like leap forward.

The group below also has some guys I've seen just enough of in clips to be excited to see how they do at u18 & u21 levels.

Certainly, we are starting to get greater numbers coming through over a say 3-4 year average that actually have a chance at playing for Arsenal than we had for quite a few years either side of Jack Wilshere's team. (and sadly our youth set up for most of the 90s was absolutely terrible!)

 

[MutableEarth]

Saw a lot of Crowley but never thought he'd make it. Lovely technique and adventure with his game, but questionable decision making, a lack of explosiveness and not the fire/drive at key moments needed to make the step up to the highest level. Jack was miles ahead in terms of game intelligence and ability to run the show. JET had power and skill in abundance, but it always looked like he lacked the motor to make the most of it.

Not many of the kids that do or don't make it really surprise me, because you can often see quite early who has a first team 'type' game. Of course, very hard to predict physical development and focus levels, but even at the clubs worst, the Arsenal first team is an incredibly high level, so only those who both stand out AND have pro stylistic elements quite early have a real chance.

Iwobi took me by surprise, and I thought Akpom would do more, and Nelson I really expected to have more of an impact before now.

Like with the current u21s, there are lots you see who you can tell will make careers in the game, but its only in the most exceptional youth groups that you think more than 1 or 2 ever have a chance at the Arsenal first team.

In Jack's team it was obvious he would, and Le Coq had a very translatable game. I was high on Lansbury too, but that glandular fever really hurt his development. But it was still a very strong group, because most of them have had good careers, and the likes of Frimpong, JET, Watt, Ozyakup, Eastmond & Bartley all got a well deserved look at first team level, even though none of them had the game for our level. I like Ayling in that group too, but sadly he didn't have any single exceptional attribute.

I expected more from AMN at Arsenal, and its a shame TJJ's career has been constantly derailed by injury, as at the age of 18 he was probably ahead of Balogun - really smart adaptable game.

Of the current lot, the u21s are pretty weak, with only Edwards and Sagoe Jnr having a chance of the boys too old for the youth cup (Awe maybe as a long shot I guess, and BNC on loan). This years youth cup squad has rather more intriguing prospects, with ACD, MLS, Sousa, Walters, Rosiak, and maybe even Ibrahim and Kamara all showing enough to give some hope at maybe getting a first team look down the line, even if Nwaneri leaves. There are even 2 or 3 others who could come into contention if they have an Iwobi like leap forward.

The group below also has some guys I've seen just enough of in clips to be excited to see how they do at u18 & u21 levels.

Certainly, we are starting to get greater numbers coming through over a say 3-4 year average that actually have a chance at playing for Arsenal than we had for quite a few years either side of Jack Wilshere's team. (and sadly our youth set up for most of the 90s was absolutely terrible!)

I think from the u21s the defenders are the most interesting to me funnily enough. That back 4 of Sousa-Awe-Monlouis-Walters has potential. Doubtful they make a dent any time soon but feel like with some good loans we might see them impress. I'm quite a big fan of both the CBs - Awe in particular impressed me when we faced the first teams in the Papa John's Cup. I like Edwards but gotta see how he comes back from his injury.

 

[9jagooner]

Saw a lot of Crowley but never thought he'd make it. Lovely technique and adventure with his game, but questionable decision making, a lack of explosiveness and not the fire/drive at key moments needed to make the step up to the highest level. Jack was miles ahead in terms of game intelligence and ability to run the show. JET had power and skill in abundance, but it always looked like he lacked the motor to make the most of it.

Not many of the kids that do or don't make it really surprise me, because you can often see quite early who has a first team 'type' game. Of course, very hard to predict physical development and focus levels, but even at the clubs worst, the Arsenal first team is an incredibly high level, so only those who both stand out AND have pro stylistic elements quite early have a real chance.

Iwobi took me by surprise, and I thought Akpom would do more, and Nelson I really expected to have more of an impact before now.

Like with the current u21s, there are lots you see who you can tell will make careers in the game, but its only in the most exceptional youth groups that you think more than 1 or 2 ever have a chance at the Arsenal first team.

In Jack's team it was obvious he would, and Le Coq had a very translatable game. I was high on Lansbury too, but that glandular fever really hurt his development. But it was still a very strong group, because most of them have had good careers, and the likes of Frimpong, JET, Watt, Ozyakup, Eastmond & Bartley all got a well deserved look at first team level, even though none of them had the game for our level. I like Ayling in that group too, but sadly he didn't have any single exceptional attribute.

I expected more from AMN at Arsenal, and its a shame TJJ's career has been constantly derailed by injury, as at the age of 18 he was probably ahead of Balogun - really smart adaptable game.

Of the current lot, the u21s are pretty weak, with only Edwards and Sagoe Jnr having a chance of the boys too old for the youth cup (Awe maybe as a long shot I guess, and BNC on loan). This years youth cup squad has rather more intriguing prospects, with ACD, MLS, Sousa, Walters, Rosiak, and maybe even Ibrahim and Kamara all showing enough to give some hope at maybe getting a first team look down the line, even if Nwaneri leaves. There are even 2 or 3 others who could come into contention if they have an Iwobi like leap forward.

The group below also has some guys I've seen just enough of in clips to be excited to see how they do at u18 & u21 levels.

Certainly, we are starting to get greater numbers coming through over a say 3-4 year average that actually have a chance at playing for Arsenal than we had for quite a few years either side of Jack Wilshere's team. (and sadly our youth set up for most of the 90s was absolutely terrible!)

I think the thing to note is that, the fact that they don't make it at Arsenal doesn't mean they won't/don't have good careers. Bartley had a good career IMO. Akpom is kicking off now (finally) though a little bit late, Lansbury too was excellent for a few years though I agree he showed more Promise.

Another thing to note is the previous generation received much more faith in their abilities from the managers aka Wenger. He would play them all in League Cup games. This is a luxury that current players don't get. And you'll agree with me that playing U21 games is totally different from playing against premiership sides in competitive matches. This is why I always advocate that they go on loan as soon as possible.

Even Wilshere had to go on loan at some point.

 

[lomekian]

I think from the u21s the defenders are the most interesting to me funnily enough. That back 4 of Sousa-Awe-Monlouis-Walters has potential. Doubtful they make a dent any time soon but feel like with some good loans we might see them impress. I'm quite a big fan of both the CBs - Awe in particular impressed me when we faced the first teams in the Papa John's Cup. I like Edwards but gotta see how he comes back from his injury.

I was including Sousa and Walters in the younger age group, but for sure they have potential. Awe, partly due to his size, is the kind of prospect that it will take longer to be able to project, but that size and mobility will always be enticing. Monlouis I think will have a good pro career, but not quite at this level. That said, I'm always less optimistic about defenders because its so much harder for Managers at this level to take a risk on them. Wenger was pretty willing to do so at times, but sometimes got the balance too far in that direction and undermined the first team in order to protect young careers - though I think Senderos & Djourou were worth the risk. Going to be hard for Arteta to do the same if we maintain a level anywhere near this seasons, particularly at CB. No coincidence that the only centre backs that come through at top English clubs tend to be very very good very young. Even the likes of Ferdinand would have taken longer if he'd been at a better club than WHU.

 

[lomekian]

I think the thing to note is that, the fact that they don't make it at Arsenal doesn't mean they won't/don't have good careers. Bartley had a good career IMO. Akpom is kicking off now (finally) though a little bit late, Lansbury too was excellent for a few years though I agree he showed more Promise.

Another thing to note is the previous generation received much more faith in their abilities from the managers aka Wenger. He would play them all in League Cup games. This is a luxury that current players don't get. And you'll agree with me that playing U21 games is totally different from playing against premiership sides in competitive matches. This is why I always advocate that they go on loan as soon as possible.

Even Wilshere had to go on loan at some point.

Totally agree. The uptick in players who don't make it here still having good careers compared to say 15-20 years ago reflects well on the club.

Re opportunities, I think its too early to make the comparisons between managers that people do. Wenger won the double in his first full season, so had the credit in the bank to sack off the league cup. Also those league cup teams were significantly bolstered by youngsters brought in from outside at 17,18,19,20 who often had a taste of first team experience elsewhere, and were either physically or tactically more ready than 95% of home grown youth. With all due respect to the current lot, there is no comparison between say Carlos Vela and Khayon Edwards, or RVP vs Balogun, Denilson vs Azeez or Diaby vs Patino.

And now of course, with teams needing 90+ points to challenge for the league rather than 78-82, the margin for error will limit opportunities more. On the flip side, we are moving to a squad model that will help, as 17-18 positionally flexible real core players allows for younger players to fill out the squad, rather than the situation Arteta inherited of having so many players he couldn't register them all. When you have such a large squad, you have to play them all in League Cup etc games to allow them to be usable (and justify their wages) - its pretty hard to keep a £60-100k p/w player engaged if they don't even get to feature in the EL or LC.

Hopefully over the next couple of transfer windows the squad can evolve to having a flexible enough core that instead of the likes of Cedric getting a handful of games as 3rd choice, that spot can be taken by Walters, who can play 2 positions.

But yes, loans absolutely key, particularly for those who need to mature. If you are lucky enough to get a Saka level of physical, emotional and tactical maturity in a youngster, there is less benefit to a loan, but most of these guys will need them.

Patino was a clear example - tactically and technically excellent, but lacked the physicality, competitiveness and pace of play for the first team squad. Sadly, after getting the first team taste he and others will want to leave, but to be honest, I don't think he has the physical prowess to make it at Arsenal.

 

[Maybe]

And now of course, with teams needing 90+ points to challenge for the league rather than 78-82, the margin for error will limit opportunities more. On the flip side, we are moving to a squad model that will help, as 17-18 positionally flexible real core players allows for younger players to fill out the squad, rather than the situation Arteta inherited of having so many players he couldn't register them all. When you have such a large squad, you have to play them all in League Cup etc games to allow them to be usable (and justify their wages) - its pretty hard to keep a £60-100k p/w player engaged if they don't even get to feature in the EL or LC.

I'm saying for years that our biggest issue with promoting youngsters was a large squad of pointless senior players on high wages, limiting chances for any upcoming talent.

17 core players + a few top youngsters would be ideal, and I think that's the way Arteta and Edu see things.

We can debate all day here if Vieira or Lokonga will be any good, the point is their intent was to find top talent and give it a go by adding them next to our core squad.

Think if we have top talent in the academy, they wouldn't look outside, but we didn't have much recently so I won't have a go at Arteta for not promoting any players

 

[Blankety Blank]

I'm saying for years that our biggest issue with promoting youngsters was a large squad of pointless senior players on high wages, limiting chances for any upcoming talent.

17 core players + a few top youngsters would be ideal, and I think that's the way Arteta and Edu see things.

We can debate all day here if Vieira or Lokonga will be any good, the point is their intent was to find top talent and give it a go by adding them next to our core squad.

Think if we have top talent in the academy, they wouldn't look outside, but we didn't have much recently so I won't have a go at Arteta for not promoting any players

Good Post. The thing about Lokonga & Vieira, they had already shown a good level in men's football abroad.
They are undoubtedly both very talented on the ball.
The question is do they have what it takes to make it at a high level in the prem?

99% of young players need to play a good number of games in adult football before you can decide.

A couple of years back Arteta was getting some stick for not giving Azeez, Patino etc more mins here.

Thing is unless you are an absolute outlier ( Rooney, Cesc etc) you will not be ready/good enough to jump from kids football to play for a prem team at 17.

Problem is kids get so hyped these days that people on twitter or 'cough' forums think they can.

'I mean they must be worth a shout over Xhaka or Mo' right?

With young players, impatient man on the internet doesn't understand development.

They are either Hero or Zero.

An immediate superstar or rubbish.

Players cook at different rates.

 

[Bucephalus]

Good Post. The thing about Lokonga & Vieira, they had already shown a good level in men's football abroad.
They are undoubtedly both very talented on the ball.
The question is do they have what it takes to make it at a high level in the prem?

99% of young players need to play a good number of games in adult football before you can decide.

A couple of years back Arteta was getting some stick for not giving Azeez, Patino etc more mins here.

Thing is unless you are an absolute outlier ( Rooney, Cesc etc) you will not be ready/good enough to jump from kids football to play for a prem team at 17.

Problem is kids get so hyped these days that people on twitter or 'cough' forums think they can.

'I mean they must be worth a shout over Xhaka or Mo' right?

With young players, impatient man on the internet doesn't understand development.

They are either Hero or Zero.

An immediate superstar or rubbish.

Players cook at different rates.

Players cook at different rates is absolutely true. It's also true that different parts of their games cook at different rates. True unicorns (Saka, Rooney) who are both talent ready and physically ready to play in the PL as teenagers are exceedingly rare. Most hyped teenagers, though are either one or the other. Talent-ready, and too good for u23s on that basis (I'd argue Viera fits into this, though I think he's a little older; Patino certainly qualifies), but not ready for the physical rigors of PL football. Or physically ready, and too good for the u23s on that basis, but lacking a little in potentially developable talent to be good enough for a top-six club. Tavares and Lokonga are that. Figuring out the right development path for each player is always going to be difficult.

 

[lomekian]

Good Post. The thing about Lokonga & Vieira, they had already shown a good level in men's football abroad.
They are undoubtedly both very talented on the ball.
The question is do they have what it takes to make it at a high level in the prem?

99% of young players need to play a good number of games in adult football before you can decide.

A couple of years back Arteta was getting some stick for not giving Azeez, Patino etc more mins here.

Thing is unless you are an absolute outlier ( Rooney, Cesc etc) you will not be ready/good enough to jump from kids football to play for a prem team at 17.

Problem is kids get so hyped these days that people on twitter or 'cough' forums think they can.

'I mean they must be worth a shout over Xhaka or Mo' right?

With young players, impatient man on the internet doesn't understand development.

They are either Hero or Zero.

An immediate superstar or rubbish.

Players cook at different rates.

Its also that for young players to thrive, unless they are prodigies, they need to be in the right environment, not just in a general sense but specific to themselves.

Are they coming into teams that are playing well? Do they naturally mesh with teammates? Can they cope physically with the demands of the division AND the team's requirements for that role? Are they a good stylistic fit.

Willock didn't fit what we needed at the time, so it made sense for both parties for him to leave, despite his clear promise.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Its also that for young players to thrive, unless they are prodigies, they need to be in the right environment, not just in a general sense but specific to themselves.

Willock didn't fit what we needed at the time, so it made sense for both parties for him to leave, despite his clear promise.

Yes that's also a very good point.
Willock was an interesting one. He had qualities but I don't think he was seen as as quite being technically/tactically ready. We went & brought in Ode.

He really struggled for a good 12 months or so at Newcastle tbh. However at least from a development perspective he was playing regularly. Not sure we would have stayed as patient.

I think he was also feeling homesick 1st season.

It's been a good move for him & his career but he was like 21/22.

Ethan uprooting & moving to City at 16 seems purely money driven.

 

[MutableEarth]

A snapshot of his season

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

A snapshot of his season

Worst 15-year-old talent I have ever seen. My little sister's park team could spin him around. Arsenal sucks. I hope City wins all the remaining games.

 

[14Henry]

If he moves to City its for money. **** him.

If he moves to a team like Brentford. Fair play I hope he achieve everything he deserves and needs.

 

[MutableEarth]

If he moves to City its for money. **** him.

If he moves to a team like Brentford. Fair play I hope he achieve everything he deserves and needs.

It's defo a money move. I do still expect him to be a worldie but he won't have the route he would have had here.

 

[14Henry]

It's defo a money move. I do still expect him to be a worldie but he won't have the route he would have had here.

He won't be a worldie. He won't get an opportunity for first team football at a team that needs to win now. And all top players need first team football.

The likes of Bellingham were way smarter than this lad. If he and his family want their future secured with money that's fine. But let's call it what it is. He should do the same too.

 

[lomekian]

He won't be a worldie. He won't get an opportunity for first team football at a team that needs to win now. And all top players need first team football.

The likes of Bellingham were way smarter than this lad. If he and his family want their future secured with money that's fine. But let's call it what it is. He should do the same too.

Ethan is quite a quiet, shy lad, with a very actively involved father.