General Reserves Talk

[chessygoal]

A bit depressing to see that most of our young loaned players are bench warmers : http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20160418/loan-watch-zelalem-scores-penalty

 

[MutableEarth]

Just seen the highlights. Wilshere looked sharp which is a plus for the first team if he can stay fit and sharp. Gnabry didnt look bad either although he was great in front of goal, ironically after I praised his finishing!

We looked well on top on the highlights and it was literally poor communication at the back and terrible keeping from Macey that gave West Brom the 2 goals.

Who is teaching these guys to shoot at Arsenal? Not sure why the club are reluctant to change staff, clear that Gatting is under performing as U21 manager.

 

[MutableEarth]

I like the idea of Jeff in CM, same with Josh DaSilva and probably why we signed Kelechi Nwakali.

We need a player in there with good dribbling skills to link play up to the attack. I feel that Jeff lacks potency in the forward areas but is dangerous enough to carry threat from deep. Central midfield combinations are becoming more innovative and I think - if the rumors are true that we are after Xhaka - then a player who carries as well as defends decently next to him would be a good idea. If Wilshere was consistently fit, he would make sense.

Kante is a good dribbler, Dembele also and I feel their roles for Sp**s are crucial in the midfield.

My only issue where Jeff is concerned is that I currently don't trust Wenger enough to instil the discipline needed to anchor him in this role. CM is his future in my opinion - he's wasted further forward simply because he isn't ruthless enough in the final third, but he still has star quality in his dribbling and technical ability.

You could also make the same case for Maitland-Niles - I honestly believe he has a future in central midfield personally. There are options there.

 

[Aevi]

...

You could also make the same case for Maitland-Niles - I honestly believe he has a future in central midfield personally. There are options there.

As long as his crazy mother doesn't get in the way...

 

[MutableEarth]

As long as his crazy mother doesn't get in the way...

True!

Now that I think about it, Maitland-Niles would make a great needle player once he fully refined his game. Showed his versatility and aptitude for defending when Wenger brought him on to mark Wesley Sneijder. In the games I saw for Ipswich, his workrate was probably his best asset - got back and tackled a lot on the wing. Think his future's in central midfield. Can dribble and pass pretty well - although his passing hasn't really been much of an asset at Ipswich, I think that would improve here.

A number of our attacking midfielders could potentially have a future at CM, along with the CMs that we do have at U21 level. They need better coaching though - they are great individual talents but you can see the benefit that better coaching and structure gives at that level when you look at Chelsea and Man City or even Man Utd at youth level. I don't think we are far behind them in terms of talent but our set-up is very much behind theirs at the moment in terms of structure and innovation. Jonker has a job on his hands IMO.

 

[Aevi]

@MutableEarth may have said this before, but I feel like we need to trim our main squad down. We must sign some top players to keep up with competition, but more needs to leave than get in.

The reason for this is so that we can properly nurture our young talents. We have so many midfielders and wingers at the moment that it seems the likes of Toral, Gnabry, Adelaide, and Willock won't be getting a chance next season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Walcott and Ox rumors turned out to be true because of this, which at least would mean that the club is headed in a positive direction for the next manager when Wenger's contract runs out.

 

[BobP]

@MutableEarth may have said this before, but I feel like we need to trim our main squad down. We must sign some top players to keep up with competition, but more needs to leave than get in.

The reason for this is so that we can properly nurture our young talents. We have so many midfielders and wingers at the moment that it seems the likes of Toral, Gnabry, Adelaide, and Willock won't be getting a chance next season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Walcott and Ox rumors turned out to be true because of this, which at least would mean that the club is headed in a positive direction for the next manager when Wenger's contract runs out.

Good point, maybe it is why the Ox rumors have surfaced, the emergence of Iwobi and his comparatively better performances may have seen a reductions in faith in Ox. You also probably have Campbell leaving.

That's potentially 3 spots available, we may bring an attacker or not but regardless there will be space for someone to come through there, it's also the same case in midfield, there will be space for somebody to come through there.

 

[Aevi]

Highlights of the latest game of the U21s vs West Brom:

http://player.arsenal.com/videos/7734/under-21s-v-west-brom-h?autoplay=true

Gnabry did some neat things though couldn't finish (typical problem of ours these days), and Wilshere is looking good. I heard Crowley played pretty well, and the video shows glimpses of that. I haven't been too impressed with Macey over the past viewings though, has a Szczesny feel of uncertainty to him.

 

[Keile]

True!

Now that I think about it, Maitland-Niles would make a great needle player once he fully refined his game. Showed his versatility and aptitude for defending when Wenger brought him on to mark Wesley Sneijder. In the games I saw for Ipswich, his workrate was probably his best asset - got back and tackled a lot on the wing. Think his future's in central midfield. Can dribble and pass pretty well - although his passing hasn't really been much of an asset at Ipswich, I think that would improve here.

A number of our attacking midfielders could potentially have a future at CM, along with the CMs that we do have at U21 level. They need better coaching though - they are great individual talents but you can see the benefit that better coaching and structure gives at that level when you look at Chelsea and Man City or even Man Utd at youth level. I don't think we are far behind them in terms of talent but our set-up is very much behind theirs at the moment in terms of structure and innovation. Jonker has a job on his hands IMO.

I don't understand why you think every promising attacking midfielder can become the top 4 level CM we need here. I notice a lot of people saying Wilshere can play CM at a high level too but Wilshere actually doesn't have the discipline, telescopic passing range and/or physicality to make up for it. His only top 4 level position is attacking midfielder. He'll probably disappoint anywhere else if we want to win the league. Forward is likely Maitland Niles' position too.

 

[MutableEarth]

@MutableEarth may have said this before, but I feel like we need to trim our main squad down. We must sign some top players to keep up with competition, but more needs to leave than get in.

The reason for this is so that we can properly nurture our young talents. We have so many midfielders and wingers at the moment that it seems the likes of Toral, Gnabry, Adelaide, and Willock won't be getting a chance next season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Walcott and Ox rumors turned out to be true because of this, which at least would mean that the club is headed in a positive direction for the next manager when Wenger's contract runs out.

Good point, maybe it is why the Ox rumors have surfaced, the emergence of Iwobi and his comparatively better performances may have seen a reductions in faith in Ox. You also probably have Campbell leaving.

That's potentially 3 spots available, we may bring an attacker or not but regardless there will be space for someone to come through there, it's also the same case in midfield, there will be space for somebody to come through there.

I think the squad will undergo a trim of some sort anyway. It doesn't appear that Rosicky, Arteta and Flamini will last much longer beyond this season and rumors are now constantly swirling around attackers like Ox, Walcott and even Campbell. With the inconsistency of the strikers also, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they could end up being axed midway through next season if a viable solution turns up either in the transfer window or - more unlikely - internally.

The influx of graduates will be a slow one IMO - and the dogfight will most likely begin in pre-season, when everyone will want to impress somehow, and it's a matter of who does. Iwobi's progress to first teamer has been slow but the seeds were sown in pre-season where he did very well. So the key will be pre-season in July. I can probably only speculate on who will impress, and that would depend on who's going.

Highlights of the latest game of the U21s vs West Brom:

http://player.arsenal.com/videos/7734/under-21s-v-west-brom-h?autoplay=true

Gnabry did some neat things though couldn't finish (typical problem of ours these days), and Wilshere is looking good. I heard Crowley played pretty well, and the video shows glimpses of that. I haven't been too impressed with Macey over the past viewings though, has a Szczesny feel of uncertainty to him.

Crowley's feeling his way back into some form, which will do him some good IMO. Same with Gnabry - I think pre-season will be important for both of them, as both have the quality to give Wenger a potential selection headache and it would depend on how hard they work and how much they impress.

I don't understand why you think every promising attacking midfielder can become the top 4 level CM we need here. I notice a lot of people saying Wilshere can play CM at a high level too but Wilshere actually doesn't have the discipline, telescopic passing range and/or physicality to make up for it. His only top 4 level position is attacking midfielder. He'll probably disappoint anywhere else if we want to win the league. Forward is likely Maitland Niles' position too.

I said they could, I haven't said whether I think they all will. Chances are slim, especially the current circumstances with our coaching. If you read my prior post, you will have noted that I do have concerns about Jeff playing CM for us, but given the versatile nature of our midfielders (see Iwobi for example), but it is not beyond the realm of possibility provided the coaching is sufficient and they have the aptitude for the role. The two players whom I think have the most potential in those positions were the two I mentioned by name - Jeff and Maitland-Niles.

I don't see Maitland-Niles as a forward personally - unless he's able to replicate his attacking endeavor fully in a first team environment, I think he has shown even more aptitude for playing deeper on the pitch than forward so far in his young career, and I am unsure he has the potency to play in a forward position. Same with Jeff - very profligate in forward positions for a player of his quality. Leads me to believe that a forward berth would not be the best allocation of his resources. An outside dark-horse is Josh Dasilva, who I've seen not much of but has impressed every time I've seen him and I'd like to see more of him in a midfield role.

Also, I happen to agree RE Wilshere to an extent. I mentioned other PL midfielders like Dembele and Kante for their ball-carrying in the middle of the park and I think Wilshere can replicate that, but like you say, he lacks the pure physicality that would cement his position there and he also isn't disciplined enough. His passing range is far better than people like to say though.

Also wanted to reiterate again that we won't know exactly how capable some of these players are of balling at a high level unless they are actually given the chance to play for Arsenal. An example - a lot of us lately have ripped on Chuba Akpom (myself included - and I'm a fan of his) for his lack of performances, but I can remember both Afobe and Kane struggling very badly on loan at points. That's not to say that Akpom's a guaranteed success but - and I agree wholeheartedly with Jeorge Bird here - they need to be given a chance at Arsenal if we're going to see what they're made of.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Also wanted to reiterate again that we won't know exactly how capable some of these players are of balling at a high level unless they are actually given the chance to play for Arsenal. An example - a lot of us lately have ripped on Chuba Akpom (myself included - and I'm a fan of his) for his lack of performances, but I can remember both Afobe and Kane struggling very badly on loan at points. That's not to say that Akpom's a guaranteed success but - and I agree wholeheartedly with Jeorge Bird here - they need to be given a chance at Arsenal if we're going to see what they're made of.

This. When Akpom was getting a few minutes here last season he was doing very well, at least more than just work hard and chase long ball for many games.

With state of our striker position I think he would have been given chances this season to impress.

The loan will hopefully do him wonders in long term, but Wenger also has to go back to his old self and take more risk with those players. At least if he is not going to spend the money he has. The old players we have are all band average and its boring as hell to watch them play. Nothing really to lose.

 

[Aevi]

Akpom's loan might have a similar effect to Gnabry's, making him work even harder to get games when he gets back. You never know.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Not worried about Akpoms determination at all.

 

[MutableEarth]

Akpom's loan might have a similar effect to Gnabry's, making him work even harder to get games when he gets back. You never know.

That's the hope - that he regains some composure. I'm not even really fussed about him being a greedy striker - I think it would be useful to have one who is all about goals but as long as he supplements that with his all-round game - which is much better than people think.

Needs composure and focus. Once he has that, he'll be fine.

 

[Maxim]

Would have been useful to not go out at the first stage of the carling cup in the first season for a while that we've had some promising youngsters in the ranks...

 

[Aevi]

 

[MutableEarth]

U18s thrashed Sunderland u18s 4-1.

Nketiah scored 2, with Malen and Nelson grabbing one each. Nketiah now has 21 goals this season. Phenomenal return.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

U18s thrashed Sunderland u18s 4-1.

Nketiah scored 2, with Malen and Nelson grabbing one each. Nketiah now has 21 goals this season. Phenomenal return.

Exciting times with all the strikers and midfielders we have.

If we don't sign striker in the summer and given our horrendous quality up front I can see Akpom or Mavidi do a Iwobi. And then we still have Nketiah and Malen!

Not saying that would be ideal. It would be like one of those time when someone in front of you went all in, and you have a pair of nines or tens and you really want to call it.

 

[MutableEarth]

Exciting times with all the strikers and midfielders we have.

If we don't sign striker in the summer and given our horrendous quality up front I can see Akpom or Mavidi do a Iwobi. And then we still have Nketiah and Malen!

Not saying that would be ideal. It would be like one of those time when someone in front of you went all in, and you have a pair of nines or tens and you really want to call it.

It's all about getting the opportunity and the confidence that comes with it. The ideal situation for a lot of fans would of course be for us to shell out and get the superstar striker, which we'd all be happy about. But there's something special about succeeding with someone that had been there from the start. I'd love to see a Hale Ender like Chuba Akpom or Stephy Mavididi raise their game and become our number 9 for the foreseeable - or if Malen becomes the superstar we all think he might be.

 

[BobP]

Malen looks like a proper player, it's interesting the way he plays gives one the impression that he is shorter than he actually is, he's 180 CM. It's his low centre of gravity which does it I think, much closer to the ball.

A lot of the best strikers have a low centre of gravity.

Also, is there a backstory as to why Chelsea let Nketiah go?