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Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances
- Thread starter Ricardinho
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- Replies 6,719
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Manberg
Predator
There's an agenda here. He's not getting criticised anywhere to the level we're seeing here on this forum considering some people on AFTV even said they'd have him as man of the match.
So it doesn't seem like fair criticism. It seems like some posters on here have a fully set idea in their head that Xhaka's not a good player no matter what and they want him out.
Vantastico
Active Member
I like the hypothesis that @Kysus presented, stating that he would likely play better in Liverpool's team/system than he has in ours. Although I'm convinced that he would be nothing more than a squaddie for 'Pool, he could definitely play servicable minutes for them and not do as bad a job as he has for us.
I also completely agree with the assessment of @Big Poppa, who said that Xhaka does not complement our other midfielders well, because he is too static and none of our other players are dynamic enough to make up for it.
Going back to the Liverpool-hypothetical: next to Wijnaldum and Henderson who would just about do all of the necessary running, and Xhaka instructed to find open passes forward or to simply play it sideways or back, I could see him fulfilling that task, easily so even.
He just desperately needs a system that allows him to let the ball do most of the work, and his teammates do most of the running, i.e. covering or creating spaces.
Looking back at the situation we've got going on: there's Torreira, who likes to link-up play with his quick short passing, but isn't an outstanding runner on or off the ball, (off it he is good at timing challenges under good team pressure, on it though, he gets fouled quite often and easily when he tries to create something by dribbling). Then there's Mesut, who needs all of the other outfield players to cover for his inadequacies off the ball just like Granit, and for him to get on the ball he needs to actually drop back and put in a shift and f*cking sprint or at least accelerate but he doesn't which pisses me off to no end)
In any case, the two of them playing next to Xhaka on the same midfield just leaves us exposed against just about every team, no matter how little quality they have (see: EL opponents), if they're just athletic enough that thet can intensively press us high up the pitch every time we start our build up. Everyone knows this and (almost, uhu uhu MannUtd) every team in the Premier League is doing it by now and we simply have no answers (Guendouzi who was supposed to be our new Cesc sadly has been far from it).
Add that to all of our other woes (mostly defensive and mental), it just ain't pretty to watch at the moment and it's why some people are so ruthless at our senior players, who have struggled individually, making outrageous unforced errors, with Xhaka and Mustafi being the main culprits obviously. It stings especially because they were brought in by the board for such high fees.
But seeing that clip of Xhaka pinging passes was still kind of strange, because I had honestly forgot that he had that stuff in him. Honestly, the most disappointing thing about it was that it made me realize I've never rated him watching him play for Arsenal. Honestly. But, he can't have been that bad of a player judging from some of those clips. Also, the fee we paid. So what happened in those last few years? I mean, when you purchase a player for £40m, aren't you supposed to at least rate him enough to build the team around his skillset to excel a little bit?
That brings me to my next point. I believe the answer to that mystery is (and correct me if I'm wrong, please): Instead of letting him effectively have an impact, and to be able to play from deep, with a suitable partner and system, we've simply tossed him in the ocean and put all the pressure of our fanbase on him to figure out how he wants to play, all by himself. And it's not solely on him that he has failed to deliver. No, it is on the board for not pairing him with a good partner (not Mustafi), and on the trainers for not instructing him, to not let him repeat the same mistakes and putting him in the same positions where he has failed to deliver over and over againm It almost seems he was viewed as both Santi's and Coquelin's direct replacements, where instead he could have been a perfect complementary player in midfield next to them.
Furthermore: instead of building a basic team around him that plays four at the back, we've tried 3, 4 and 5-men at the back, but always with 2 right-rooted centre backs who weren't comfortable on the football under any sort of pressure (Koscielny was okay but not outstanding), and instead of adressing that issue, we went ahead and brought in a stopgap by the name of Sokratis. It has only been this season that we actually brought in David Luiz, who is at least comfortable on the ball, but at the same time, he is also a right-footed player playing on the left-hand side of defense. He has also taken some of Xhaka's intended duties of playmaking from deep (which Xhaka honestly never quite got around to doing because it is so easy to phase him out by man-marking him, but again, our system didn't help). Luiz was a good signing though because his long-passing ability makes Xhaka's position in the squad more dispensible if need be.
The point I am making here is that: despite all of Xhaka's weaknesses and shortcomings, you can't really hold him accountable for the larger mismanagement at the club. I feel like our fans have just let all of their frustrations about the state of the club loose on one or two players. In fact, I myself have scolded Xhaka many countless times. But I finally have come to realize that Xhaka is at best merely a symptom, and at worst a victim of what is wrong with the club. It is not his fault that he wasn't put in a position to succeed. He is not the best, but he is certainly not the worst player we have ever had at this club. I am actually kind of glad that Arteta seems up for the challenge to invest time and resources in Xhaka. If the experiment fails, well, there will be no men overboard, we'll just finally cut our losses and move on in the summer. And I think that the feeling that it would be for the best will then be mutual.
I also believe that regardless of what happens Xhaka will still love this club, and I hope we as fans can give that loyalty back to him, because despite all of his limitations and immensely frustrating level of play at times, the guy actually gives a damn... The least we can do as he tries is to support him, and if he ducking sucks and you still hate him, well, then be excited for our new signings and youngsters taking over the squad next season!
I also completely agree with the assessment of @Big Poppa, who said that Xhaka does not complement our other midfielders well, because he is too static and none of our other players are dynamic enough to make up for it.
Going back to the Liverpool-hypothetical: next to Wijnaldum and Henderson who would just about do all of the necessary running, and Xhaka instructed to find open passes forward or to simply play it sideways or back, I could see him fulfilling that task, easily so even.
He just desperately needs a system that allows him to let the ball do most of the work, and his teammates do most of the running, i.e. covering or creating spaces.
Looking back at the situation we've got going on: there's Torreira, who likes to link-up play with his quick short passing, but isn't an outstanding runner on or off the ball, (off it he is good at timing challenges under good team pressure, on it though, he gets fouled quite often and easily when he tries to create something by dribbling). Then there's Mesut, who needs all of the other outfield players to cover for his inadequacies off the ball just like Granit, and for him to get on the ball he needs to actually drop back and put in a shift and f*cking sprint or at least accelerate but he doesn't which pisses me off to no end)
In any case, the two of them playing next to Xhaka on the same midfield just leaves us exposed against just about every team, no matter how little quality they have (see: EL opponents), if they're just athletic enough that thet can intensively press us high up the pitch every time we start our build up. Everyone knows this and (almost, uhu uhu MannUtd) every team in the Premier League is doing it by now and we simply have no answers (Guendouzi who was supposed to be our new Cesc sadly has been far from it).
Add that to all of our other woes (mostly defensive and mental), it just ain't pretty to watch at the moment and it's why some people are so ruthless at our senior players, who have struggled individually, making outrageous unforced errors, with Xhaka and Mustafi being the main culprits obviously. It stings especially because they were brought in by the board for such high fees.
But seeing that clip of Xhaka pinging passes was still kind of strange, because I had honestly forgot that he had that stuff in him. Honestly, the most disappointing thing about it was that it made me realize I've never rated him watching him play for Arsenal. Honestly. But, he can't have been that bad of a player judging from some of those clips. Also, the fee we paid. So what happened in those last few years? I mean, when you purchase a player for £40m, aren't you supposed to at least rate him enough to build the team around his skillset to excel a little bit?
That brings me to my next point. I believe the answer to that mystery is (and correct me if I'm wrong, please): Instead of letting him effectively have an impact, and to be able to play from deep, with a suitable partner and system, we've simply tossed him in the ocean and put all the pressure of our fanbase on him to figure out how he wants to play, all by himself. And it's not solely on him that he has failed to deliver. No, it is on the board for not pairing him with a good partner (not Mustafi), and on the trainers for not instructing him, to not let him repeat the same mistakes and putting him in the same positions where he has failed to deliver over and over againm It almost seems he was viewed as both Santi's and Coquelin's direct replacements, where instead he could have been a perfect complementary player in midfield next to them.
Furthermore: instead of building a basic team around him that plays four at the back, we've tried 3, 4 and 5-men at the back, but always with 2 right-rooted centre backs who weren't comfortable on the football under any sort of pressure (Koscielny was okay but not outstanding), and instead of adressing that issue, we went ahead and brought in a stopgap by the name of Sokratis. It has only been this season that we actually brought in David Luiz, who is at least comfortable on the ball, but at the same time, he is also a right-footed player playing on the left-hand side of defense. He has also taken some of Xhaka's intended duties of playmaking from deep (which Xhaka honestly never quite got around to doing because it is so easy to phase him out by man-marking him, but again, our system didn't help). Luiz was a good signing though because his long-passing ability makes Xhaka's position in the squad more dispensible if need be.
The point I am making here is that: despite all of Xhaka's weaknesses and shortcomings, you can't really hold him accountable for the larger mismanagement at the club. I feel like our fans have just let all of their frustrations about the state of the club loose on one or two players. In fact, I myself have scolded Xhaka many countless times. But I finally have come to realize that Xhaka is at best merely a symptom, and at worst a victim of what is wrong with the club. It is not his fault that he wasn't put in a position to succeed. He is not the best, but he is certainly not the worst player we have ever had at this club. I am actually kind of glad that Arteta seems up for the challenge to invest time and resources in Xhaka. If the experiment fails, well, there will be no men overboard, we'll just finally cut our losses and move on in the summer. And I think that the feeling that it would be for the best will then be mutual.
I also believe that regardless of what happens Xhaka will still love this club, and I hope we as fans can give that loyalty back to him, because despite all of his limitations and immensely frustrating level of play at times, the guy actually gives a damn... The least we can do as he tries is to support him, and if he ducking sucks and you still hate him, well, then be excited for our new signings and youngsters taking over the squad next season!
CJJ
Established Member
@Vantastico Great post mate. I think that sums up much of the Xhaka story at Arsenal. I've also gotten a more nuanced view having had time to reflect on his Arsenal career recently.
One thing i wanted to add is that both Wenger and Emery clearly tasked Xhaka with jobs that is not his specialty, simply due to the lack of alternatives (Such as covering for our offensive fullbacks, seen by the Zaha penalty incident last year)
He's many things but he's not a player designed for holding a 1v1 against a tricky winger.
But Xhaka has always done what's asked by his manager, and i think that's why we've seen him continuously being picked by every coach he's ever served under, regardless of the mistake here and there which frustrates the fan base, myself included.
Its like asking a chef that specializes in pasta to also make indian chicken curry sometimes, just because he can probably do it to a passable level.
One thing i wanted to add is that both Wenger and Emery clearly tasked Xhaka with jobs that is not his specialty, simply due to the lack of alternatives (Such as covering for our offensive fullbacks, seen by the Zaha penalty incident last year)
He's many things but he's not a player designed for holding a 1v1 against a tricky winger.
But Xhaka has always done what's asked by his manager, and i think that's why we've seen him continuously being picked by every coach he's ever served under, regardless of the mistake here and there which frustrates the fan base, myself included.
Its like asking a chef that specializes in pasta to also make indian chicken curry sometimes, just because he can probably do it to a passable level.
Country: USA
Player:Saliba
AFTV is the equivalent of someone passing a microphone around Arsenal Mania and selecting which opinions they publish on a given day.
If anything I'd argue the forum is a far more balanced representation of fan opinions.
Ash10
Chairman of the Bum Brigade
Yeah the opinions on AFTV is now used as a defence shield for him. Reaching the bottom of the barrel is one thing & then there's this.
As for the agenda thing, people have watched him enough to know that he is not good enough. Even his worshippers are admitting he's 'serviceable' as in barely good enough.
It has somehow turned into Xhaka fans vs Arsenal fans.
Eaststander74
Jury Lite II
**** knows how that happened. Some strange things occur in this threadWhy did that reply to me it wasn’t my comment
(i agree btw)
Taneruit
Established Member
Country: Switzerland
Player:Zinchenko
*Everyone who doesn't agree with me or rates Xhaka in any way is a Xhaka worshipper and not an Arsenal fan*
Thats not an argument and honestly one of the places you could go to in here.
Last edited:
CaseUteinberger
Established Member
Country: Sweden
Not sure why we keep going back and forth on Xhaka. Over several years we have seen him and know his many limitations and few strengths. I really hope we can upgrade on him soon. For now he is on the team and Arteta is thankfully putting him in a better position to do things he can actually do. We should be able to upgrade though. That should really not be all that difficult even if we sell him at a loss.
Ash10
Chairman of the Bum Brigade
I have no problem with disagreeing with me but to make up stuff to defend just one player who has consistently shown he is not good enough rather than to think of the betterment of the club as a whole needs to be called out
CJJ
Established Member
Nah mate. You're blinded by Xhaka hate if you can't see he's been thriving under Arteta. If he continues like this i see no good reason to let him go, and neither should you.
Riou
In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over
Country: Northern Ireland
Player:Gabriel
Really miss some of the old midfields we used to have, had some proper characters over the years...God I wish this guy didn't get injured so much, even on his last legs he still had quality...
...after Cesc left for Barca, I always thought Arsène would eventually transition into more of a 4-1-2-3 formation, with Wilshere and Ramsey ahead of a more defensive player...remember watching us beat United in 2011 when Cesc was injured with Song-Ramsey-Wilshere in the middle, and they looked quality together...shame it only really got to be seen consistently during the last few months of Arsène's tenure, quite liked those two with Xhaka...the defence wasn't good enough, and our attack was all over the place really...but man, love Jack and Aaron...
...after Cesc left for Barca, I always thought Arsène would eventually transition into more of a 4-1-2-3 formation, with Wilshere and Ramsey ahead of a more defensive player...remember watching us beat United in 2011 when Cesc was injured with Song-Ramsey-Wilshere in the middle, and they looked quality together...shame it only really got to be seen consistently during the last few months of Arsène's tenure, quite liked those two with Xhaka...the defence wasn't good enough, and our attack was all over the place really...but man, love Jack and Aaron...
Bloodbather
Established Member
Country: Turkey
Xhaka plays much better under Arteta's system than he did under Emery because the midfield is more compact and he has Torreira's dynamism covering up for his lack thereof. His improvement is notable and impressive, but it shouldn't fool anyone into thinking that he's good enough for the team to take the next step. I'm pleased that he seems to have settled for the rest of the season because he does do well under Arteta and we need him the rest of the way, but he still needs to be replaced in the summer.
Yeah no. Guendouzi is far from being a "powerful box-to-box", and the reason why the Torreira-Guendouzi partnership doesn't work is the lack of positional discipline on the part of Guendouzi. It forces Torreira to come out of his pocket at DM, which in turn makes him worse as well.
See this is when it turns unfair. I'm far from being a Xhaka fan, but you can't take away credit when it's due. Xhaka is an excellent passer, it's literally the only reason he's been a mainstay at the team under all managers we've had during his tenure. He can find overlapping full-backs, streaking attackers and can change the direction of the build-up play very well. Xhaka's replacement should be one that can provide similar things as well but doesn't have the problems that comes with him.
Yeah no. Guendouzi is far from being a "powerful box-to-box", and the reason why the Torreira-Guendouzi partnership doesn't work is the lack of positional discipline on the part of Guendouzi. It forces Torreira to come out of his pocket at DM, which in turn makes him worse as well.
See this is when it turns unfair. I'm far from being a Xhaka fan, but you can't take away credit when it's due. Xhaka is an excellent passer, it's literally the only reason he's been a mainstay at the team under all managers we've had during his tenure. He can find overlapping full-backs, streaking attackers and can change the direction of the build-up play very well. Xhaka's replacement should be one that can provide similar things as well but doesn't have the problems that comes with him.
Kysus
Active Member
I think a big reason why arsenal fans are so unhappy is that we have been spoiled somewhat by absolutely oustanding Cm's.
Vieira, Cesc and Santi as well were top3 in their position at the time.
Watching some Santi footage right now and it's definitely hard to not feel dissappointed by our current options but elite players are very hard to come by.
Xhaka is a good player and valuable asset, we see should him for what he is and not what he is not. Value his contribution while hoping that we can add someone of higher level to the team(which would not make xhaka redundant)
Vieira, Cesc and Santi as well were top3 in their position at the time.
Watching some Santi footage right now and it's definitely hard to not feel dissappointed by our current options but elite players are very hard to come by.
Xhaka is a good player and valuable asset, we see should him for what he is and not what he is not. Value his contribution while hoping that we can add someone of higher level to the team(which would not make xhaka redundant)
Country: England
I kinda still want him gone I’m ngl.
That tantrum he threw when he got subbed that day I’ve never seen it before
I don’t see any other club having that and yet we’ve been made to accept him by force and it sucks.
He’s not even sick and he’s been here for years. He’s the only one with any sort of range on his passing though, so here we are.
Irked me a bit when he got the armband back the other day, doesn’t deserve it. He has this Giroud/Cockroach like resilience about him though. Chance after chance after chance, season after season, I’m sick of the don tbh.
That tantrum he threw when he got subbed that day I’ve never seen it before
I don’t see any other club having that and yet we’ve been made to accept him by force and it sucks.
He’s not even sick and he’s been here for years. He’s the only one with any sort of range on his passing though, so here we are.
Irked me a bit when he got the armband back the other day, doesn’t deserve it. He has this Giroud/Cockroach like resilience about him though. Chance after chance after chance, season after season, I’m sick of the don tbh.
Country: USA
Player:Saliba
I kinda still want him gone I’m ngl.
That tantrum he threw when he got subbed that day I’ve never seen it before
I don’t see any other club having that and yet we’ve been made to accept him by force and it sucks.
He’s not even sick and he’s been here for years. He’s the only one with any sort of range on his passing though, so here we are.
Irked me a bit when he got the armband back the other day, doesn’t deserve it. He has this Giroud/Cockroach like resilience about him though. Chance after chance after chance, season after season, I’m sick of the don tbh.
the passing range thing is interesting. I try to think who in our team can hit a 40+ yard pass to switch play with any sort of accuracy and only Xhaka, Luiz, (and at a stretch Torreira) spring to mind. Whereas Liverpool have two full backs who can do it almost off either foot.
We’re holding onto him because of scarecity of one skill, I do kinda get that. But we’ve got to ask some serious questions of our recruitment over the last decade.
I think we are more holding onto him because our other options are either not good enough / not ready yet and it would be stupid to get rid without having a replacement. I don't think we are keeping him for his passing range, not like we unlock teams with his spectacular 40 yard passes that often anyway.
Country: Australia
Really miss some of the old midfields we used to have, had some proper characters over the years...God I wish this guy didn't get injured so much, even on his last legs he still had quality...
...after Cesc left for Barca, I always thought Arsène would eventually transition into more of a 4-1-2-3 formation, with Wilshere and Ramsey ahead of a more defensive player...remember watching us beat United in 2011 when Cesc was injured with Song-Ramsey-Wilshere in the middle, and they looked quality together...shame it only really got to be seen consistently during the last few months of Arsène's tenure, quite liked those two with Xhaka...the defence wasn't good enough, and our attack was all over the place really...but man, love Jack and Aaron...
**** me dead he was quality even on his last legs . Amazing we had him , Santi , Rosicky , Özil , Ramsey and people still moaned .
Country: England
We need a midfielder who can run the 100m in less than 12 seconds.
Country: England
Xhaka is a good player that's been mismanaged for most of his entire career. If he was anything less than good then he would have dropped by Wenger/Emery/Arteta.
People go on about press resistance but show me a player who's press resistant when the opposition can focus solely on him. Santi struggled hugely when playing with Coquelin because teams could focus wholeheartedly on pressing him, remember that.
The dumb moments are unfortunately just him though. Nobody to blame for that although you could make a point about him having to cover huge areas of space which lead him to panic.
People go on about press resistance but show me a player who's press resistant when the opposition can focus solely on him. Santi struggled hugely when playing with Coquelin because teams could focus wholeheartedly on pressing him, remember that.
The dumb moments are unfortunately just him though. Nobody to blame for that although you could make a point about him having to cover huge areas of space which lead him to panic.
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