Granit Xhaka: Time For Xhak To Hit The Road?

What would you do about him?

  • Keep 100%

    Votes: 14 11.4%
  • Try to improve upon him, but keep if we can’t

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • Get rid

    Votes: 73 59.3%

  • Total voters
    123

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
Trusted
Interesting argument tbh.

At what point do we decide to discount the history and draw a line under it, if he looks to have turned a corner? Are the errors relevant now?

I used to use that argument against those who claimed RvP was still ‘injury prone’ despite him going that long period injury-free after his longer lay/offs. It was a problem that didn’t appear to be one anymore, so do we wipe the slate and accept that he may just get a little knock from time to time like any other player, and cease calling him a crock and expecting his nose to fall off at any moment?

You could compare Xhaka’s situation to the teams... We also looked to have turned a corner, only it’s much easier to identify. A lot of people will just point to the table though, and say ‘but we’re still 11th/9th! lol’.

We can’t erase the results that put us where we are, much like RvP couldn’t retrospectively fix his legs and like Xhaka can’t erase his blunders.

It would be interesting to hear the views of somebody who would apply what you suggest to be the case with Xhaka, but at the very same time will only point to us being mid-table and deny that we could be (we evidently are) on the up.
Think that RVP comparison is perfect, that’s exactly what I’m asking but most of the people in here who can’t stand Xhaka kind of just ignored what I was getting at.

Things are on the up for sure, we’ve had disappointing results either side of the introduction of a no10 but even Arteta’s biggest haters (and I’m up there) would admit that no single player should really be judged on their performances before ESR got into the team. We actually look like a team now.

As for Xhaka, I’m not even taking a stance, I was just playing Devil’s advocate but it’s a bit silly seeing him getting blamed for a goal because he missed a tight pass by the halfway-line as a result of a decent press.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
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I pray you're wrong, Alan Davies made a good point on the Tuesday club. About how the club is throwing away it's homegrown talent in favour of foreign players who really aren't that much better. See Willian being brought in and played ahead of Reiss Nelson for the entire season, 200k a week and 4 assists to show for it.

I'd love for AMN to be in the mix for the next 5 years. It isn't like we're pulling up any trees at the moment. Willock is a bit green IMO. He does some of everything but none of it very well.
I worry about our youth too and it's one of the main reservations I have about Arteta. AMN in the Utd match in 2018 is his standout midfield performance. I hoped we'd see more but it just hasn't worked out. Like fans and the club itself, our hoard and hope mentality isn't sustainable. I know what you mean about Wiloock but look at two of his performances for Newcastle and his EL performances and I'm so hopeful. He's also been thrown into losing teams with lesser players. Nelson is baffling but he might be another Reyes who just can't do as much as we hope and will better elsewhere. We're stuck with Willian but it's up to Edu and maybe Per to protect our academy assets.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
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Willock is a complete midfielder??
Not yet obviously. But he has all the assets to be coached into one or at least someone who will be reliable in many matches. I hate to talk about lockers and ceilings but if Willock develops in game intelligence, we might have a better version of Ramsey. It's not like we're overrun with midfielders who score or even linger near the edge of the box.
 

AberGooner

Well-Known Member
Not yet obviously. But he has all the assets to be coached into one or at least someone who will be reliable in many matches. I hate to talk about lockers and ceilings but if Willock develops in game intelligence, we might have a better version of Ramsey. It's not like we're overrun with midfielders who score or even linger near the edge of the box.
In the Europa League he looked very similar to Ramsey the way he was getting himself into the box and some good finishing as well. Was signs of it in the cup game against Newcastle as well. I'd be so hesitant to just chuck him away in the summer as apart from flashes of it with Partey we really lack a midfielder who will try and get into the box.
 

blaze_of_glory

Perfect Xhaka Opinions
Moderator
If he is , he’s years from being ready. If you’re going to replace Granit then you’d have to buy .
Yes, and I think the only way Xhaka is getting replaced at this point is if he pushes for a move elsewhere himself (which could well happen given what's gone on).

Arteta loves him, he's only gotten better since Partey has arrived and has only played more. Partey was supposed to replace him according to many on here, but they are first choice when both fit (another thing Xhaka excels at btw). I really don't think the club sees replacing him as any sort of priority right now and are probably more interested in extending his contract.
 

squallman

Still Pining for Wenger
I worry about our youth too and it's one of the main reservations I have about Arteta. AMN in the Utd match in 2018 is his standout midfield performance. I hoped we'd see more but it just hasn't worked out. Like fans and the club itself, our hoard and hope mentality isn't sustainable. I know what you mean about Wiloock but look at two of his performances for Newcastle and his EL performances and I'm so hopeful. He's also been thrown into losing teams with lesser players. Nelson is baffling but he might be another Reyes who just can't do as much as we hope and will better elsewhere. We're stuck with Willian but it's up to Edu and maybe Per to protect our academy assets.

I think that's harsh on Nelson. He hasn't been given a chance. Willian has played 19 games in the league for us, 27 in total. If Nelson got those game instead, does anyone think he'd have done less than the Brazilian?

The time to play AMN in midfield was any of the numerous times that Xhaka was stinking the joint out for successive games on end.

I think our academy and youth players really started to suffer around 2011 when Wenger went away from youth and focused on experienced journeymen players. We became a team of Phil Nevilles (the Everton version). He tried again with the British core but they were all either brittle as glass or plain not good enough.

I hope this time, project youth can take off and we don't waste this generation like the previous two.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
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I think that's harsh on Nelson. He hasn't been given a chance. Willian has played 19 games in the league for us, 27 in total. If Nelson got those game instead, does anyone think he'd have done less than the Brazilian?

The time to play AMN in midfield was any of the numerous times that Xhaka was stinking the joint out for successive games on end.

I think our academy and youth players really started to suffer around 2011 when Wenger went away from youth and focused on experienced journeymen players. We became a team of Phil Nevilles (the Everton version). He tried again with the British core but they were all either brittle as glass or plain not good enough.

I hope this time, project youth can take off and we don't waste this generation like the previous two.
I have been a bit harsh on Nelson but I'm steeling myself for his departure. Before Pepe's rise, I was all for playing him RW and moving Saka left but now, he got comp on both wings. I don't think our youth would have been worse than the first team stinkers but they've managed to come out the other end thanks to a determined and over cautious manager. Saka and ESR have set a good standard that our other youth haven't matched in the limited time they've been given and the next gen are poised too. It's a tough one but I hope the club gets it right.
 

Taneruit

Well-Known Member
So he's better than all those players shown below him then?

Its two stats and you have to put them into context, in progressive carries for instance he would rank lower.

If we're talking progressive passes (more than 10 yards up the field) and passing into the final third however, which those two stats are for, yeah he's up there.

Edit: Additionally, you have to consider how effective those passes are (for a variety of reasons including things that are out of their control, like frontline or system), something a lot of them struggle with when coming into the premier league. See: Thiago right now.
 
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EmeryCouldnt

Well-Known Member
Its two stats and you have to put them into context, in progressive carries for instance he would rank lower.

If we're talking progressive passes (more than 10 yards up the field) and passing into the final third however, which those two stats are for, yeah he's up there.

Edit: Additionally, you have to consider how effective those passes are (for a variety of reasons including things that are out of their control, like frontline or system), something a lot of them struggle with when coming into the premier league. See: Thiago right now.

I think it’s specifically interesting because it’s directly counter to the narrative that he only passes backwards and sideways.

I’d be curious to see the actual source for those numbers and what the time period was. Also, does the pass have to be completed in order to count?
 

Taneruit

Well-Known Member
I think it’s specifically interesting because it’s directly counter to the narrative that he only passes backwards and sideways.

I’d be curious to see the actual source for those numbers and what the time period was. Also, does the pass have to be completed in order to count?

Yes, has to be completed. Source is fbref accordin to his tweet

Fbref
 

avenellroad

John Radford’s son
(By a United fan, which is why their players are highlighted and Locatelli is in there as a potential buy.)

This fits the eye test in that he is a very good passer into space. Earlier on in the season, he was definitely passing square or back a lot of the time (whether this is down to instruction, we don't know), however in our recent run of form his passing has been key,

My problem with Xhaka has always been his lack of mobility. If we can find someone who can cover ground quicker whilst also possessing a similar passing range, it's a no brainer in terms of an upgrade. This really should be a key priority if we are to go up a level.
 

Rex Banter

Got Swerved By Gallas
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This fits the eye test in that he is a very good passer into space. Earlier on in the season, he was definitely passing square or back a lot of the time (whether this is down to instruction, we don't know), however in our recent run of form his passing has been key,

My problem with Xhaka has always been his lack of mobility. If we can find someone who can cover ground quicker whilst also possessing a similar passing range, it's a no brainer in terms of an upgrade. This really should be a key priority if we are to go up a level.

Yeah the mobility is the killer for me too. You can’t really play a 10 with him in the team because he needs the protection of two runners next to him.

Him, Ramsey and Partey would probably be an elite midfield fwiw. If we’re going with a number 10 long term we need someone more mobile next to Partey.

If we could get a good deal on MØ dream would be Rice.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
(By a United fan, which is why their players are highlighted and Locatelli is in there as a potential buy.)


This shouldn't really be news to anyone. This is Xhaka's main strength, always has been. If there was a chart like that for his entire time at Arsenal he'd still be up near the top. The issue has always been other stuff, stupid mistakes or getting exposed athletically. If those flaws can be eradicated or compensated for then maybe you start to reassess his value.

Certainly in theory a guy like Partey next to him should help, if Partey can get fit. Maybe you keep Xhaka but buy another Partey-type CM in the summer, just to be safe.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted
This fits the eye test in that he is a very good passer into space. Earlier on in the season, he was definitely passing square or back a lot of the time (whether this is down to instruction, we don't know), however in our recent run of form his passing has been key,

My problem with Xhaka has always been his lack of mobility. If we can find someone who can cover ground quicker whilst also possessing a similar passing range, it's a no brainer in terms of an upgrade. This really should be a key priority if we are to go up a level.
I'd like to see stats up to December/intro of ESR and then from January onwards. As @Rex Banter said, his mobility is the killer. He now has more passing options which helps but despite the stats, he's still overly cautious and passes back unnecessarily at times. I still want someone more mobile. Partey has come from a midfield three consisting of technically sound ballers to having to cover the ground for two. No wonder he's injured. Fwiw, Pepe has good stats but only recently had the performances to match. Xhaka is still below what I'd like and getting another MF who can help him still limits us. I wanted the first team MF ripped up. Let's do it and start a proper rebuild with Partey and our youth
 

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