Hector Bellerin: The B's Knee

[turkish gooner]

RIP

 

[Jury]

As a piece of prose this is truly, truly awful, and that cannot be understated. But the sentiment is bang on. Bellerin is easily the most interesting player around these days and we’re lucky to have him. The fact that some fans still give him grief for his lifestyle is beyond me, and frankly if you do then it’s a fantastic indicator of your shortcomings as a person.

Hopefully he’ll be getting a lot of support from Arsenal fans during his recovery and hopefully we show him how much we appreciate him, cos there won’t be another Bellerin for a very long time, and that’s a sad thing.

Is this some sublime piss take of a post?

 

[Jae]

Need someone in as cover now.

 

[dashsnow17]

Is this some sublime piss take of a post?

I did warn you. Tbh I thought Vice had kicked the bucket already, but apparently there’s still a market for terrible writing. The basic premise is correct though, even if it’s expressed in just about the worst way possible.

 

[Furious.]

I would agree with you as far as the end of the first sentence. Evolutionary biology does not mean, "I am what I want to be, regardless of science and facts" though. You can eat what you want, that doesn't mean everything you eat is good for your body and is what you were meant to eat.

We have invented cars and planes and tanks. We still have two legs. The mistake of the internet generation is to believe that nature will obey the laws they make up as they go along. Evolution, by definition, takes a very long time. The (minority) trend towards veganism started yesterday in evolutionary terms. It has changed our insides not one whit.

The same arguments could be applied to many modern foods such as processed oils, grains, dairy, factory farmed animals & eggs, mass cultivated plant crops, coffee etc etc. All are relatively recent additions to human diets compared to evolutionary time. Hence we have lactose intolerance, coeliacs etc etc

If you're going to argue that the best diet should ban grains or chocolate and treat them like posions, then that's a bit too fad-diety and demonising foods. Flexible dieting is much more suited to the modern world in my view.

Nobody knows the exact nature of the perfect human diet, partly because of variation between individuals within human populations which means there isn't going to be a one-size fits all solution. We know a lot of general principles that go into it including the importance caloric balance, fruits vegetables and other nutritious whole foods (for nutirents/phytonutrients/fibre etc), protein, carbohydrates to fuel training, sufficient micronutrients etc.

We invented cars. We also invented exercise bikes, running shoes, training methodologys, weight lifting, footballs, football pitches, physiotherapy alongside these things. Hence the fitness of footballers is the best it's ever been despite the fact that they travel in motorised vehicles.

A vegan diet can and does consist of a wide variety of different nutrients, making your line of reasoning arbitray. You've yet to name a single nutrient source that cannot be incoporated into a vegan diet in sufficient quantity.

The point that many human populations have not evolved in tandem with vegan diets (at least recently) is made somewhat irrelevant by the modern availability of all sorts of foods including dense sources of plant protein that were not available in the past. Implying that these modern foods cannot form a suitable diet would be a bit like dismissing the training and other preparation methods used in today's football, because humans hadn't evolved in tandem with these, even though it is clear that football is much stronger physically and technically than even 20 years ago.

Your stance on diets comes across as arbitrary and an overeach of the evidence. It also comes across as a bit of a stone age mentality towards progress, especially when you label this a problem of "the internet generation" (whilst you write text on the internet).

 

[Mo Britain]

The same arguments could be applied to many modern foods such as processed oils, grains, dairy, factory farmed animals & eggs, mass cultivated plant crops, coffee etc etc. All are relatively recent additions to human diets compared to evolutionary time. Hence we have lactose intolerance, coeliacs etc etc

If you're going to argue that the best diet should ban grains or chocolate and treat them like posions, then that's a bit too fad-diety and demonising foods. Flexible dieting is much more suited to the modern world in my view.

Nobody knows the exact nature of the perfect human diet, partly because of variation between individuals within human populations which means there isn't going to be a one-size fits all solution. We know a lot of general principles that go into it including the importance caloric balance, fruits vegetables and other nutritious whole foods (for nutirents/phytonutrients/fibre etc), protein, carbohydrates to fuel training, sufficient micronutrients etc.

We invented cars. We also invented exercise bikes, running shoes, training methodologys, weight lifting, footballs, football pitches, physiotherapy alongside these things. Hence the fitness of footballers is the best it's ever been despite the fact that they travel in motorised vehicles.

A vegan diet can and does consist of a wide variety of different nutrients, making your line of reasoning arbitray. You've yet to name a single nutrient source that cannot be incoporated into a vegan diet in sufficient quantity.

The point that many human populations have not evolved in tandem with vegan diets (at least recently) is made somewhat irrelevant by the modern availability of all sorts of foods including dense sources of plant protein that were not available in the past. Implying that these modern foods cannot form a suitable diet would be a bit like dismissing the training and other preparation methods used in today's football, because humans hadn't evolved in tandem with these, even though it is clear that football is much stronger physically and technically than even 20 years ago.

Your stance on diets comes across as arbitrary and an overeach of the evidence. It also comes across as a bit of a stone age mentality towards progress, especially when you label this a problem of "the internet generation" (whilst you write text on the internet).

No.

 

[Tosker]

The same arguments could be applied to many modern foods such as processed oils, grains, dairy, factory farmed animals & eggs, mass cultivated plant crops, coffee etc etc. All are relatively recent additions to human diets compared to evolutionary time. Hence we have lactose intolerance, coeliacs etc etc

If you're going to argue that the best diet should ban grains or chocolate and treat them like posions, then that's a bit too fad-diety and demonising foods. Flexible dieting is much more suited to the modern world in my view.

Nobody knows the exact nature of the perfect human diet, partly because of variation between individuals within human populations which means there isn't going to be a one-size fits all solution. We know a lot of general principles that go into it including the importance caloric balance, fruits vegetables and other nutritious whole foods (for nutirents/phytonutrients/fibre etc), protein, carbohydrates to fuel training, sufficient micronutrients etc.

We invented cars. We also invented exercise bikes, running shoes, training methodologys, weight lifting, footballs, football pitches, physiotherapy alongside these things. Hence the fitness of footballers is the best it's ever been despite the fact that they travel in motorised vehicles.

A vegan diet can and does consist of a wide variety of different nutrients, making your line of reasoning arbitray. You've yet to name a single nutrient source that cannot be incoporated into a vegan diet in sufficient quantity.

The point that many human populations have not evolved in tandem with vegan diets (at least recently) is made somewhat irrelevant by the modern availability of all sorts of foods including dense sources of plant protein that were not available in the past. Implying that these modern foods cannot form a suitable diet would be a bit like dismissing the training and other preparation methods used in today's football, because humans hadn't evolved in tandem with these, even though it is clear that football is much stronger physically and technically than even 20 years ago.

Your stance on diets comes across as arbitrary and an overeach of the evidence. It also comes across as a bit of a stone age mentality towards progress, especially when you label this a problem of "the internet generation" (whilst you write text on the internet).

very interesting - at least it would be if you posted in the 'General Discussion' forum and not here, where it is just very irritating

 

[Furious.]

No.

Good point well made.

 

[Furious.]

very interesting - at least it would be if you posted in the 'General Discussion' forum and not here, where it is just very irritating

My understanding was that someone was trying to claim that Bellerin's diet is suboptimal for his athletic performance? If so, would a response to point out the way in which these claims are false, and the reasoning faulty, not count as relevant to the player?

 

[Slartibartfast]

The same arguments could be applied to many modern foods such as processed oils, grains, dairy, factory farmed animals & eggs, mass cultivated plant crops, coffee etc etc. All are relatively recent additions to human diets compared to evolutionary time. Hence we have lactose intolerance, coeliacs etc etc

If you're going to argue that the best diet should ban grains or chocolate and treat them like posions, then that's a bit too fad-diety and demonising foods. Flexible dieting is much more suited to the modern world in my view.

Nobody knows the exact nature of the perfect human diet, partly because of variation between individuals within human populations which means there isn't going to be a one-size fits all solution. We know a lot of general principles that go into it including the importance caloric balance, fruits vegetables and other nutritious whole foods (for nutirents/phytonutrients/fibre etc), protein, carbohydrates to fuel training, sufficient micronutrients etc.

We invented cars. We also invented exercise bikes, running shoes, training methodologys, weight lifting, footballs, football pitches, physiotherapy alongside these things. Hence the fitness of footballers is the best it's ever been despite the fact that they travel in motorised vehicles.

A vegan diet can and does consist of a wide variety of different nutrients, making your line of reasoning arbitray. You've yet to name a single nutrient source that cannot be incoporated into a vegan diet in sufficient quantity.

The point that many human populations have not evolved in tandem with vegan diets (at least recently) is made somewhat irrelevant by the modern availability of all sorts of foods including dense sources of plant protein that were not available in the past. Implying that these modern foods cannot form a suitable diet would be a bit like dismissing the training and other preparation methods used in today's football, because humans hadn't evolved in tandem with these, even though it is clear that football is much stronger physically and technically than even 20 years ago.

Your stance on diets comes across as arbitrary and an overeach of the evidence. It also comes across as a bit of a stone age mentality towards progress, especially when you label this a problem of "the internet generation" (whilst you write text on the internet).

While not necessarily endorsing a vegan or vegetarian diet, a 50-year study recently concluded that gearing your diet toward whole grains and other "good carbohydrates" and away from processed foods (which include meat and cheese), sweets, fried foods and junk food.

 

[Tosker]

My understanding was that someone was trying to claim that Bellerin's diet is suboptimal for his athletic performance? If so, would a response to point out the way in which these claims are false, and the reasoning faulty, not count as relevant to the player?

not for four pages and counting, surely?

 

[Furious.]

not for four pages and counting, surely?

I don't know what you mean by four pages and counting and I can't be arsed to try to find out. I'm not aware of any forum rules on brevity and now you're trying to draw out this effort to self-police the forum, which I'd argue is less relevant than anything I posted. A post is either relevant or not. I was challenging blatantly pseudoscientific nonsense claims about the quality of Bellerin's diet and the response was to obfuscate to cling to badly reasoned and uninformed argument and falsehoods, so I took it apart as best I could in a systematic way.

 

[Mo Britain]

I don't know what you mean by four pages and counting and I can't be arsed to try to find out. I'm not aware of any forum rules on brevity and now you're trying to draw out this effort to self-police the forum, which I'd argue is less relevant than anything I posted. A post is either relevant or not. I was challenging blatantly pseudoscientific nonsense claims about the quality of Bellerin's diet and the response was to obfuscate to cling to badly reasoned and uninformed argument and falsehoods, so I took it apart as best I could in a systematic way.

You're only taking yourself apart. Stop digging.

 

[Mo Britain]

Good point well made.

Yes. Brevity is a virtue.

 

[Dutch D]

Better than a quad tear for sure. He’ll be back good as new! Don’t envy him his rehabilitation though. Good that he is still young. He’ll heal quickly hopefully. Come on Hector!

I agree. Was really worried when it was reported as a quad tear, but I think ACL's are much more manageable in sports nowadays. Even if the rehabilitation will take a long time.

Now I'm confident he'll be able to come back as strong as ever. Means we can be a bit more relaxed about his replacement.

 

[Sniper Mik]

 

[Furious.]

You're only taking yourself apart. Stop digging.

Says the person who claims that vegan diets are not as good as non-vegan diets, but can't name a single dietary nutrient that can't be obtained from a vegan diet to explain a mechanism that could cause the hypothesis to be true.

Humans didn't evolve with modern training methods. Our bodies haven't changed "one whit" as some might say. Yet apparently that's all fine and unchallenged because, you know, that's 'progress'. "Evolution doesn't matter in that case."

But modern food like rice and pea protein? "No, our bodies haven't evolved with that, best avoid." Medicine like vaccines and antibiotics? "That's weird and against evolution."

A factory farmed animal that's been treated with antibiotics, been industrially milked giving it cystitis on its tits, or trapped in a cage plopping out eggs at a high rate? "Can't perform without it! Therefore must drive a car to a supermarket, buy a plastic wrapped chunk of animal/bottle of mammary secretions/box of unfertilized eggs and eat them. Don't forget that we evolved as hunter gatherers, so that must be true...."

LMFAO. I didn't realise that this forum was attracting flat Earthers these days.

 

[YeahBee]

Just giving you a rev YeahBee.

Boring day at work. Happen to share many of the views you pointed to here regarding the vegan stuff.. No issue with their existence but I wish they wouldn't remind us all the time.

And I fell for it again

 

[yorch44]

Says the person who claims that vegan diets are not as good as non-vegan diets, but can't name a single dietary nutrient that can't be obtained from a vegan diet to explain a mechanism that could cause the hypothesis to be true.

Humans didn't evolve with modern training methods. Our bodies haven't changed "one whit" as some might say. Yet apparently that's all fine and unchallenged because, you know, that's 'progress'. "Evolution doesn't matter in that case."

But modern food like rice and pea protein? "No, our bodies haven't evolved with that, best avoid." Medicine like vaccines and antibiotics? "That's weird and against evolution."

A factory farmed animal that's been treated with antibiotics, been industrially milked giving it cystitis on its tits, or trapped in a cage plopping out eggs at a high rate? "Can't perform without it! Therefore must drive a car to a supermarket, buy a plastic wrapped chunk of animal/bottle of mammary secretions/box of unfertilized eggs and eat them. Don't forget that we evolved as hunter gatherers, so that must be true...."

LMFAO. I didn't realise that this forum was attracting flat Earthers these days.

I can, vitamin B12... which is exclusively from animal origins and essential for the brain and nervous system. There are complements for this but they are synthetic and some people creates resistance to them.

 

[Furious.]

I can, vitamin B12... which is exclusively from animal origins and essential for the brain and nervous system. There are complements for this but they are synthetic and some people creates resistance to them.

Vitamin B12 originates from some bacteria and archaea, not animals. Animals, such as herbivores obtain their B12 from bacteria in the soil.

The reasoning that I was rejecting suggested that humans should be omnivores because that's the way they evolved. For any lack of vitamin B12 in modern plant-based diets to support that idea, it would first be necessary to demonstrate that the causes of such deficencies are not modern agricultural and food preparation practices. Such practices may remove soil bacteria from plant-based diets, while ancestral plant-based diets (if and when they occurred) might have potentially provided sufficent B12.