Joe Willock: The True Joerdie

[MutableEarth]

I think we get anywhere near £25m and he’s off. I think Mbappe has really clouded people’s minds when it comes to young talent these days. Lads at 21/22 written off if they’re not elite already. I think both Willock and Nelson will have comfortable PL careers.

With the way it’s going at Arsenal, a move to Newcastle or similar is a great career choice for Willock, he’ll get 30 games a season at the top level before another big club comes in for him when he’s 25/26 or even earlier.

I'll go one further - I think both Willock and Nelson will be at better teams than Arsenal in a few years.

I've become very pessimistic about the Arsenal 1st team and I think we're gonna waste the vast majority of our Hale End prospects, including Saka and ESR. We may not lose those 2, but I'm increasingly becoming concerned that we won't get the best out of them despite how good they are and have been this season.

If guys like Willock and Nelson are underrated and dicked around by the club brass AND it's fanbase, what chance does the likes of Taylor-Hart and Hutchinson have, or even Azeez and Balogun - two of our biggest lay-ups in a while. They'll have some blips here and there and no doubt we will restrict their game time and diminish their confidence, value and momentum. Worst still we're not gonna get close to the right value for these players either when we inevitably need to sell them because STILL they're the only players with a small modicum of currency in the English game and nobody wants to buy all the old/average players who are stinking out the joint regularly and still playing and collecting cheques.

I hope this changes but I think Willock will be the domino.

 

[Hunta]

I'll go one further - I think both Willock and Nelson will be at better teams than Arsenal in a few years.

I've become very pessimistic about the Arsenal 1st team and I think we're gonna waste the vast majority of our Hale End prospects, including Saka and ESR. We may not lose those 2, but I'm increasingly becoming concerned that we won't get the best out of them despite how good they are and have been this season.

If guys like Willock and Nelson are underrated and dicked around by the club brass AND it's fanbase, what chance does the likes of Taylor-Hart and Hutchinson have, or even Azeez and Balogun - two of our biggest lay-ups in a while. They'll have some blips here and there and no doubt we will restrict their game time and diminish their confidence, value and momentum. Worst still we're not gonna get close to the right value for these players either when we inevitably need to sell them because STILL they're the only players with a small modicum of currency in the English game and nobody wants to buy all the old/average players who are stinking out the joint regularly and still playing and collecting cheques.

I hope this changes but I think Willock will be the domino.

I don’t see how Azeez or Balogun get much game time next season. No European football, Arteta won’t play them in the league. What if we get PL sides in the league cup and even if they play, what’s that, 2-4 games before December?

Can see Balogun being loaned out and Azeez wasting away with the u23s.

 

[kash2]

We could be about to throw out some talented players for a fraction of the price if they'd been given opportunities this season. We've seen what's happened with Willock after only 3 months with Bruce but also AMN, who was quality to end last season, he's helped a doomed WBA side actually put up a fight for survival. Douzi actually got into the French senior squad at one point when he was getting a run of games for us and Nelson, well we still don't really know what we've got with him as he's been given so few chances.

I could understand it if they where being kept out the squad by a Fabregas or a Hleb but it's Elneny and Willian at the end of the day. No excuses for that. Would be even more frustrating if we made sideway steps with the replacements we sign. Why sell Willock for £25m to replace him with Berge for £35m? It says a lot that the these are the players we're talking about getting fees for yet the players getting picked regularly we'd struggle to get any cash for.

the more the selling and buying....the more money for the bottom-feeders

 

[samspade]

I don’t see how Azeez or Balogun get much game time next season. No European football, Arteta won’t play them in the league. What if we get PL sides in the league cup and even if they play, what’s that, 2-4 games before December?

Can see Balogun being loaned out and Azeez wasting away with the u23s.

And how is having to accommodate more youngster going to help a situation where there is limited game time to share out? Some of these players are in direct competition with each other, limited game time runs counter to the idea that we should continue to give them all a chance. Imo we should ditch Nelson, AMN, Nketiah and Willock and focus on the next generation. Between Taylor-Hart, Balogun, Azeez, Hutchinson, Petino and more there's enough to be going on with. Look at the number of names there, you simply have to focus your efforts on the best or you're wasting time.

 

[Hunta]

And how is having to accommodate more youngster going to help a situation where there is limited game time to share out? Some of these players are in direct competition with each other, limited game time runs counter to the idea that we should continue to give them all a chance. Imo we should ditch Nelson, AMN, Nketiah and Willock and focus on the next generation. Between Taylor-Hart, Balogun, Azeez, Hutchinson, Petino and more there's enough to be going on with. Look at the number of names there, you simply have to focus your efforts on the best or you're wasting time.

What are you on about.

 

[samspade]

What are you on about.

I was under the impression you thought Nelson and Willock deserved more time from an earlier post

I think we get anywhere near £25m and he’s off. I think Mbappe has really clouded people’s minds when it comes to young talent these days. Lads at 21/22 written off if they’re not elite already. I think both Willock and Nelson will have comfortable PL careers.

With the way it’s going at Arsenal, a move to Newcastle or similar is a great career choice for Willock, he’ll get 30 games a season at the top level before another big club comes in for him when he’s 25/26 or even earlier.

and I disagree.
So thats what I'm on about.

 

[akhil]

I was under the impression you thought Nelson and Willock deserved more time from an earlier post

and I disagree.
So thats what I'm on about.

Leaving Willock aside, how do you justify the way Nelson has been treated this season? I've seen 3 RB's on the bench, 3 CBs on the bench and 2 GKs on the bench for a lot of games this season. What is the point in that apart from genuinely trying to shaft someone. You should realize, he was the most talented out of the bunch coming out of Hale end. No youngster who didn't make an impact before Arteta arrived here has gotten a shot, maybe only ESR ( which is a story of its own). Martinelli, Saliba have been screwed as well. We had 3 RBs on the bench against Chelsea while Saka played RWB.

In a heavily compressed season playing 3 times a week non stop, we've not seen proper chances given to anyone new.

 

[Penn_]

Whether he has a future here or not surely his value is only going to rise within a year. Either make him a part of next years plans with a decent amount of games or a year long loan.

Can‘t have a Joel Campbell repeat where we turn down a good offer to then only give him a handful of games.

 

[samspade]

Leaving Willock aside, how do you justify the way Nelson has been treated this season? I've seen 3 RB's on the bench, 3 CBs on the bench and 2 GKs on the bench for a lot of games this season. What is the point in that apart from genuinely trying to shaft someone. You should realize, he was the most talented out of the bunch coming out of Hale end. No youngster who didn't make an impact before Arteta arrived here has gotten a shot, maybe only ESR ( which is a story of its own). Martinelli, Saliba have been screwed as well. We had 3 RBs on the bench against Chelsea while Saka played RWB.

In a heavily compressed season playing 3 times a week non stop, we've not seen proper chances given to anyone new.

I agree with most of what you say here, I think substitutions and squad choices have been extremely conservative and we've squandered valuable minutes with which we could have tested and developed players. Personally I think I would have tested him more if selections were up to me. There are two points I would make though:

There are people who's omissions have been more egregious imo, you mention Martinelli for one but I would add Balogun and Pepe to that list, I know Pepe's experienced but he hasn't been trusted enough. So for that reason I wouldn't start my complaining about forward selections with Nelson.

I also think that Nelson has been poor every time I've seen him play this season, the same old problem of not releasing the ball quickly, not finding a sharp or dangerous enough option and being extremely one footed.

Moving forward though I think the time for first team minutes for Nelson has gone, ideally he would have gone on loan in January to retain value/develop, perhaps the best option is to send him on loan in the summer and see if he can accumulate some value or prove me wrong there. I think Arsenal have a healthy selection of wide/forward options between Bukayo, ESR, Gabi, Pepe and I'd prefer to see Taylor-Hart added to the mix. Not everyone makes the leap from academy to top pro and I don't think Nelson's as talented as some other boys we've got. Bottom line though I agree, we should be more adventurous with our selections and subs, I just think they should be used elsewhere.

 

[Macho]

I'll go one further - I think both Willock and Nelson will be at better teams than Arsenal in a few years.

This whole saga will be absolutely hilarious in a couple of years time when you see where everyone in this squad ends up.

I think even Bellerin will end up falling upwards and end up landing at PSG or something dumb, and I am not talking him up, I am saying people have got it massively twisted.

 

[Gooner416]

You would have to put your hands on your head and just be gobsmacked if we extend El Neny and sell Willock. It makes no sense.

Something no top club would ever do.

 

[tactica442]

I really hope Willock to be kept and played plentifully next season. Joe is a highly rated and PL relegation-fight tested. Being a Hale End youngster, he should not be let go just to clear more room for another overpaid and underperforming 'veterans'.

I only watch some highlights on Willock. He seems brave and can turn with the ball and drive it forward. He can score and he can defend. I am a bit surprised that Joe can read passes as well for interception. I don't know how long his current contract remains, but I wouldn't want him to leave even for 30M.

 

[kash2]

Leaving Willock aside, how do you justify the way Nelson has been treated this season? I've seen 3 RB's on the bench, 3 CBs on the bench and 2 GKs on the bench for a lot of games this season. What is the point in that apart from genuinely trying to shaft someone. You should realize, he was the most talented out of the bunch coming out of Hale end. No youngster who didn't make an impact before Arteta arrived here has gotten a shot, maybe only ESR ( which is a story of its own). Martinelli, Saliba have been screwed as well. We had 3 RBs on the bench against Chelsea while Saka played RWB.

In a heavily compressed season playing 3 times a week non stop, we've not seen proper chances given to anyone new.

i think he liked an Özil instagram post or something...or was one of those to refuse the paycut.

 

[kash2]

i really would like to see Saka at #10 with AMN+Willock behind... Nelson and ESR on the wings.

would easily tonk Villareal

 

[Maybe]

If we cut out comparisons of Elneny, Ceballos, and Xhaka, do you guys really feel like Willock could play b2b role for us or any other top team? I don't feel like he developed his game enough for that, he doesn't really click all the requirements for the number 10 role either.

I think he would need a year to develop his game and learn how to control the midfield. He does have all the attributes, it's now down to the manager and his patience to work with him and we could have Yaya Toure within 2 years. Unfortunately, it comes down to Arteta again who didn't impress when it comes to that.

 

[carter777]

Sounds like Newcastle's takeover situation is going to drag on all summer. I can't see Ashley spending £30 mil+ on one player this summer.

 

[Rasmi]

This whole saga will be absolutely hilarious in a couple of years time when you see where everyone in this squad ends up.

I think even Bellerin will end up falling upwards and end up landing at PSG or something dumb, and I am not talking him up, I am saying people have got it massively twisted.

Last 10 years very few young players who left us done better. Young players who leave us tend to get exposed and fall to lower levels

 

[Big Poppa]

If we cut out comparisons of Elneny, Ceballos, and Xhaka, do you guys really feel like Willock could play b2b role for us or any other top team? I don't feel like he developed his game enough for that, he doesn't really click all the requirements for the number 10 role either.

I think he would need a year to develop his game and learn how to control the midfield. He does have all the attributes, it's now down to the manager and his patience to work with him and we could have Yaya Toure within 2 years. Unfortunately, it comes down to Arteta again who didn't impress when it comes to that.

How the hell is he supposed to prove this if he’s not getting games there? We’re all just pontificating.

 

[Maybe]

Last 10 years very few young players who left us done better. Young players who leave us tend to get exposed and fall to lower levels

Malen, Bennacer, Gnabry, Musah all done well and they would be starters for us now, but yeah, some do fail like Chris Willock

How the hell is he supposed to prove this if he’s not getting games there? We’re all just pontificating.

He did get a game or two playing deeper, but I agree, it's not a sample that would give you enough to make any decisions. I'm not saying he needs to prove anything, I just feel like his game needs some work and I don't feel like Arteta is the guy who has patience for that stuff

 

[Rasmi]

How the hell is he supposed to prove this if he’s not getting games there? We’re all just pontificating.

He has played enough games for us to show he is not good enough. Joe willock has participated in 69 Arsenal games before his loan to Newcastle. When he went there none of you have a fvck and said you wanted him to play. He went somewhere else and scored some goals and now you all rate him. This is so funny. He is the same player he was in December