LC: Arsenal vs Wigan | 11/11/08

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

No mate...I don't think Denilson was that great against Utd and his season as a whole has not impressed me because hes not who we need alongside Fabregas...

Wilshere however, the boy has talent and he won MOTM tonight so I don't think I'm the only one who thinks he had a quality game. In fact watched it with a Pool and Chelsea fan and they both seemed quite jealous. I think you should be praising performances and supporting players like this...not limiting how far he can go because you think he is a bit slack in his positioning in the 2nd half! Yes he needs to improve but you have to recognize what phenomenal talent it takes to make Premiership standard players look ridiculously ordinary at age 16! Also Wenger would not keep mentioning the guy if he didn't think he was special, I'm sure Wilshere will prove you wrong himself anyway...although to be fair if you are not impressed tonight I don't know what will make you.

Fair enough. The thing is, i do support him. However with English players, they're hyped up so much, that it's easy for them to fall into a trap where by they require teams to be built around them. Prime examples of this are Rooney and Gerrard. Both players who can be world beaters but can't slip into a team to do a job and it's down to a lack of discipline that was built on the pack of media hype. I want the best for Wilshere and in order for him to be the best, he needs to be able to play an orthodox role just as well as he can play a free role. Learning how to play the orthodox role, must come at a point prior to the ego kicking in and that's why it's important he learns now.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

I think the biggest question here is, why are these kids (ramsey, vela and wilshere) not getting more first team minutes?

It goes without question that the above three are mighty talented but especially in the case of wilshere, you can see his lack of discipline in his game which will ultimately limit how far he can go. the more first team minutes he gets, the better. that should bring a level of discipline to his game that will facilitate his ascension to the very top.

So you are saying because he has no discipline at the youth level he should then be thrust in the first team to get that discipline? Crazy logic. If he cant pick up that disclipine at their level..he has not business in the first team. Anyway wt regards to discipline..i think the kids showed today why they are kids..the got too excited at times..to selfish at times but overall their movement was just a thing of beauty. well done

What i'm saying is that he's a huge talent at youth level and given a level of freedom that he wouldn't get at top level. Giving the guy five/ten/fifteen minutes here and there in the first team where by he's not a big shot and is in fact a small fry who must help the team work, will fast-track his disciplinary growth. And to be fair, he's as disciplined/undisciplined as Eboue, so i really don't see what we're sacrificing except for the ability to attempt to waste minutes while the opposition counter attack and he's rolling around on the floor.

 

[Alfonso]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Djourou has never looked a monster in the Prem, ever.

Man Utd away 2006/2007. He held his own against Chelsea away with Senderos next to him in the very same season as well.

If any of these players will become monsters I am convinced it will be Djourou.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

He looked like Diaby MkII to me.

Harsh but fair. He done some nice things, but at times was a mere passenger, and to be a passenger in that midfield boasting the performances of Randall and Merida was a ****ing miracle in itself. There were times when the game just passed him by, he done some nice things and he didn't have the negative aspects to his game that Diaby does, but he wasn't anything spectacular tonight. He was the worst of the big three, who were in terms of ability, heads and tails above the rest of the team. But he wasn't a patch on the other two.

 

[ricky1985]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Wigan are a good side Dos, and they looked up for it. Yet we still took them to pieces time, and time again.

Thought Djourou looked a monster tonight.

Do you honestly see those kids/reserves hammering Wigan in the Premier?

If you do, your Crazy.

Djourou has never looked a monster in the Prem, ever.

I dont think it is down to whether or not it is Premiership or Carling cup. I think it is a clear case of the level of respect from our opponent towards us, and as a result of that respect the gameplan employed by those teams change.

If Wigan played us in the Premiership and tried to attack us, I am 100% sure that same Arsenal team would rip them to shreds.

Difference is, if Wigan turned up at the Emirates tonight and parked the bus out of respect for us, like our first team face very week, then we probably would have struggled to break them down, and due to defensive deficiencies, probably would have conceeded a silly goal on the break or from a set-piece.

I am not for one minute saying this reserve team is anywhere near the quality of the first team, but I am saying there precoscious talent is undeniable.

BTW Djourou was a monster against Fenerbache, marking Daniel Guiza. He has real quality.

WENGER'S thoughts - <a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7723619.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7723619.stm</a>

 

[Wokich]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

I just want to chime in with words of support for Song, Djourou and Fabianski. I thought all three did phenomenally.

The announcers and a lot on this board keep harping on Fabianski for coming out too much, but it was necessary. Djourou and Song are pretty good sized, but aren't going to make Zaki flinch when going for a ball. Fabianski made his presence felt and even when he didn't make a clean save or a clearance with distance he disrupted the play enough to be effective (except for the one time he completely missed the ball).

The way he attacked the ball in the box reminded me a bit of a mad German. Almunia better pick up his game as Fabianski's going to take his spot sooner or later. . . . and Fabianski is thinking sooner.

 

[AnthonyG]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

The announcers and a lot on this board keep harping on Fabianski for coming out too much, but it was necessary.

In several cases it was unnecessary. He didn't have an awful game, but it was far from a faultless performance; he has, however, time to learn and improve. Harp, harp, harp.

 

[raidersoftheark]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

I think it's pretty clear that Fabianski is our Lehmann replacement. He'll conceed cheaply from time to time I feel, but if he can get his head together, he'll be less of a clown and just as dominant.

 

[Zico]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Ramsey, Wilshere and Vela were amazing tonight. I have every belief that in about 3 years, along with Cesc, Adebayor and Nasri, these guys will be the core assets of our attack. That said, I hope that Wenger realizes that while we have some amazing potential, it is important to have serviceable players on the first team as these youngsters continue to develop.

Every Vela match I have watched has featured a moment of shear genius from the lad. He is ahead of Walcott and Bendtner, and hopefully will be rewarded for his abilities with some appearances of the bench in the league.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

The thing with Fabianski is that he was never caught in two minds. He decided what he wanted to go for and went for it. Some of those may be what i'd/you'd consider wrong, but the decisiveness is a huge plus for us. Personally i was very encouraged by his performance, even though it could've been a lot better. He was certainly no worse than an average Almunia performance.

 

[raidersoftheark]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

The thing with Fabianski is that he was never caught in two minds. He decided what he wanted to go for and went for it. Some of those may be what i'd/you'd consider wrong, but the decisiveness is a huge plus for us. Personally i was very encouraged by his performance, even though it could've been a lot better. He was certainly no worse than an average Almunia performance.

Exactly. Even though Manny's been decent this season, Fabianski's decisiveness is very commendable I think.

 

[Anzac]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

I'd recorded the game whilst at work & have just finished watching it. This has been my 1st opportunity to see these kids at all. The thing that comes to mind is that they are playing without fear and exhibit the sheer exhilaration of playing. A lot of flick ons etc that you don't expect to see at this level across the entire team. These Cup game scenarios are the perfect vehicle for this exhibition style, but I have no doubt that their free reign would be restricted in a league type setting.

I've said before that IMO the C Cup squad is the better example of 'Wengerball', and I see no reason to revise my earlier comment.

 

[kamikaze80]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

generally not a fan of the mexican wave, but it was fun seeing it for vela. maybe if we do it often enough, we can slowly bring back standing to the emirates..

 

[gunner_down_under]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

According to The Sun, Wilshere seems to be the next Kaka. Lets hope so.

 

[Clrnc]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Every soccer match I went to had Mexican wave though, lol.

Is it only me or that this team sometimes look more impressive than our first team? They really played to their full potential and was fearless, trying out many different kind of flicks and skills.

And most importantly, it was won using the Arsenal way

 

[gunner_down_under]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Thats a good point - these little brats are FEARLESS! Maybe something to do with the fact that they have nothing to lose! There's a lot of togetherness in the reserves which is great.

I loved how the seniors were watching the game and applauding also. Cesc had a worried look on his face....Ramseyitis? I know I'm pushing it now.

AM is a happy place to be when we're winning

 

[Clrnc]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Just went to watch the Fabianski double save again. That run from De Ridder was something, but that save from Zaki was absolutely incredible. How did he manage to pick himself from the ground that fast and have a strong enough hand while half standing up to push it onto the bar...

It was harder than the Lehmann's Raul save tbh

 

[kel varnsen]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

Ramsey is a total class act, totally capable of making our first team right now and probably improving us too. It's only a matter of time before he gets his shot I think, and should Fabregas f**k off in the Summer and I think he'll be a worthy replacement.

ramsey is class. already a better player than denilson imo. love his balance, close control and vision.

 

[Captain]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

a/ i don't see how him getting a few minutes here and there will cost us points. i struggle to see what (bar stature) eboue offers as an impact player that he doesn't.

b/ what bit parts? that's my point, we should be giving him, vela and ramsey minutes.

erm.... the bit parts in the carling cup, the competition you just watched.

Eboue is not an impact sub, he is a utility man right now. He comes on to sure things up; it's not that hard to comprehend. whether he does so or not isn't the issue, that is his current role and one that a 16 year old is certainly not going to be used for.

The problem is that he doesn't sure things up. He allows us to concede pressure that we should be asserting with subs. It's a difference of opinion here, nothing to debate. You like subs coming on to defend, i like subs coming on to attack. Eboue attempts to come on to attack and nothings come of it. You feel that's ok, i feel that we have players who have more potential in that role. It's that simple.

It has nothing to do with what anyone 'feels' except for Wenger. I thought I made that fairly obvious in what I wrote and don't assume what I like or vice versa.

 

[Original_AAA]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan | Carling Cup | 11/11/08 | 19:45

*Thanks to kenyan gunner for the link

Arsenal have no respect

CHELSEA coach Ray Wilkins last night accused Arsenal of disrespecting the Carling Cup.

Wilkins believes the Gunners are wrong to play a team of kids instead of their star names.

And he insists Chelsea will not devalue the competition by doing the same.

:roll:

How dare we use this cup as a chance to give youngsters first team experience? Shame on us!