Life After Emery Begins

[YeahBee]

Never agreed with Chris Sutton, always had in for Arsène. Now he's having a go at Freddie after 1 game

However, there were one or two things in his BBC piece that made sense this morning.

"They need to change the model. The recruitment in particular. Over the summer they brought in [winger] Nicolas Pepe [for £72m] but the issues were at the back."

Calum Chambers has been around long enough to see if there's been an improvement but there hasn't been. I don't think he's good enough to be an Arsenal regular.

Sokratis is nowhere near good enough. I don't think he would get into any Premier League side." If you rely on Sokratis you will be changing manager every six months'

And you can add Mustafi and an ageing Luiz to that.

Freddie doesn't really have much chance. These are issues we saw under Wenger, Emery and now Freddie. Our squad has a stack of holes that need fixing.

Sok was a vitamin injection when he came into the team

Heck so was Mustafi

Then as time went in they turned to ****e

So it is clearly the walls!

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Again, how so?
I don't understand.

There are plenty of cases where managers went from midtable/EL teams => CL team and have been succesful.
Much more than any assistant making a direct transition from being an assistant to working at a top club.

Because with this kind of logic, then we wouldn't have tried to take Pochettino when he was working at Southampton, just because he hasn't got the chance to work in the proper structure to achieve CL football.
And we all know how it turned out.

We have no sample size to know what Arteta is about. As it is right now, these are just fantasies about how he could turn out to be, because he's been working with one of the best current coach.

I think football fans need to realise that Guardiola is a unicorn. He's a genius. He's unique. He's a generational talent in coaching. It's not realistic to expect Arteta (right now) to be a huge success just because he's been his assistant for 2 years.

If we do pick Arteta, I'll back him and I'll be looking forward to see his work, and I will hope the gamble will payoff.

I just don't understand all those fantasies about him, based on absolutely nothing. Let the man prove himself before saying he's going to make us play attractive football again, or he has a high ceiling.

As it is right now, there's no evidence that Arteta is any better than Freddie.
My concern is if we do get him, and he doesn't have a great start, fans will just turn on him really fast because they had unrealistic expectations.

Why not look at finally finding the next unicorn before it's there for everyone to see ?

What is Klopp by the way, if Pep is a unicorn -
what's an upgrade to that ?
Turned half the squad into superior sides twice whilst Pep only worked with the best squads at each time of his career.

Nagelmann is a new unicorn going by that metaphor and he's already out of reach.

The only chance is to find our own new Wenger/Klopp/Pep/Nagelsmann.
We won't outperform teams and build something special by having a lesser manager than all other top teams.

Takes some courage to try. Arteta or Ljungberg IN. Marcelino off.

 

[clovis]

You could say exactly the same of the opposite. "What if Ljungberg is a top manager in the making but Arteta is another Ole?" I want to make it clear that I wouldn't mind gambling on Arteta if our interim wasn't already a gamble. Since they are both unproven gambles you might as well stick with the one you have right now than swapping him for another gamble before we even have tested the first gamble. Especially considering Freddie will probably settle in quicker than Arteta since he has already worked with the club somewhat.

I see a difference between Arteta and Freddie. Freddie had no leadership qualities.

management in football is not rocket science. Every successful manager had the following two qualities: leadership and technical insight

that is why a lot of top managers were either great leaders as players or/and played in midfield or defense, because these players usually have more technical knowledge and understand the game better than the players in other positions.

among the Arsenal invincibles, the only one who has had some success as manager so far is Vieira and it not surprising to see why.

 

[El Duderino]

Unless it's Potch, Rodgers or Allegri, I'd much rather we go for Arteta than Nuno or Marcelino type fellas.

Need to get rid of Raul anyway

 

[APierre]

Can’t be having a dwarf representing Arsenal Club de Fútbol. @OnlyOne representing AM is enough.

 

[say yes]

Didn’t Marcelinho sign Coquelin and Gabriel Paulista?

Dirty Raúl made a deal didn’t he.

 

[bingobob]

Why would Arteta come here when if he is so highly rated he becomes the next City manager where he is already integrated with a better team and a superior transfer budget?

Arent we a big gamble for a new manager making his first steps?

 

[Ceballinhos]

He’s a very average manager. Struggled at Sevilla, then at Villarreal made some baffling decisions, alienated the dressing room and got the sack.

Even at Valencia I wouldn’t argue he did anything amazing, he was backed heavily by ownership in the transfer market.

He’s a decent manager for La Liga but hes going to struggle to come to a new country with a league this competitive and succeed.

This club supposedly wants to get back to challenging for titles, and going deep into the CL. None of that will happen with Marcelino.

He took Villareal from the 2nd division to a top 4 and CL playoffs in less than 2 seasons.
This is a big achievement.

He took valencia from a 12th seed to back 2 back 4th seed. This is a good progression.
Is a 4th place with Valencia something you can hold against him when Barcelona Real and Atletico are just better organizations and can attract better players?

You can't minimize his success. By any metrics available, he overachieved with Villarreal, and did a good job at Valencia.

My point is, this kind of discussion is irrelevant.
I'd be more interested if we could talk about his work, about his limits and what he's good at, than just taking results out of context and then having a definitive opinion on him.

 

[A_G]

Again, how so?
I don't understand.

There are plenty of cases where managers went from midtable/EL teams => CL team and have been succesful.
Much more than any assistant making a direct transition from being an assistant to working at a top club.

Again, I've never said Arteta was definitely going to be a success. In fact I argued strongly against hiring him in 2018 because I thought succeeding a legendary manager would be too much pressure for him. But there's no point in hiring a manager like Marcelino who just screams mediocrity, there's enough proven names around so you might as well aim high.

We just went through a case of hiring an EL manager to push the team on and it didn't work, if they try and fail again it could set the club back years. If they're not going to compete for the foreseeable future it makes more sense to hire a young coach who can grow with the squad, rather than tread water with Emery mk2.

 

[APierre]

 

[Tosker]

Fraudulent stuff if true. Raul obviously has a type, mid table quality Spanish managers.

must speak Spanish, it would seem - English not essential

 

[A_G]

Why would Arteta come here when if he is so highly rated he becomes the next City manager where he is already integrated with a better team and a superior transfer budget?

Arent we a big gamble for a new manager making his first steps?

He might have to wait until 2021 or even later for Pep to leave.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Maybe in too cynical but the "dream of Arsenal captain" seems abit convinient"!

If you couldn't read the earnest emotion on his face in his final home game, then I can't help you. But this notion that he has no DNA because he hasn't told City to feck off or that he played for Everton before (WHILE WE HAD CESC) is ridiculous. It is well documented that Arteta always liked Arsenal. We showed interest several times while he was at Everton. Just because YOU didn't like him while he was here doesn't mean he hasn't always loved Arsenal.

No idea why it would be a convenience either? What would he have gained from that?

 

[Tosker]

I think when we make our next appointment we should ask ourselves the following question. Does this guy have the capacity to take on Pep and Klopp after 3-4 years?

I'm asking myself - does this guy have the capacity to take on Raul?

 

[ChefMan21]

Arsenal and their f*cking committees. I bet they will again ask for PP presentations

The saddest thing that they are targeting plenty of different style coaches. Firstly decide what style of the coach you want. Set your sights on the selected coach and do everything which is possible to get him. Have a plan B, who don't significantly differ from your plan A playing style wise.

I don't have any issue with 1) PowerPoint presentations or 2) canvassing various types of manager.

In the case of the former, it shows whether they can communicate an idea and a conclusion. PowerPoint is just one channel for communication (and they'll need to across multiple channels with ideas and conclusions) as manager. I'm anticipating people in their youth (players) are likely to have been exposed to channels that might not have been used 10, 15, 20 years ago anyway. Audience for the coach where the most sustained communications will occur each day is not the fans, it will be the players, coaching staff, and board.

In the case of the latter, Herbert Chapman, George Graham, and Arsène Wenger were all different managers with different methods, styles and approaches to being effective. Would you ignore any of them?

 

[Hexagon9]

What’s happened to @Jury? He served his sentence didn’t he?

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

Yeah well to me for some reason it seems as though Raul doesn't see us as high up as the other teams anymore, if he did you'd think he's more keen to get other top managers in, not just going for the easy way out. Raul needs to go.

 

[bingobob]

https://www.90min.com/posts/6507279-norwich-boss-daniel-farke-tipped-to-be-next-dortmund-manager

One of my new favourites. The more I read the more I like. Took a German team from division 6 to division 4 went to Dortmund B, went to Norwich won the Championship in his first full season and his team has stuck to a footballing philosophy most want to see implemented at Arsenal.

He may be a left field choice but one that on paper ticks a few boxes.

 

[Ceballinhos]

Why not look at finally finding the next unicorn before it's there for everyone to see ?

What is Klopp by the way, if Pep is a unicorn -
what's an upgrade to that ?
Turned half the squad into superior sides twice whilst Pep only worked with the best squads at each time of his career.

Nagelmann is a new unicorn going by that metaphor and he's already out of reach.

The only chance is to find our own new Wenger/Klopp/Pep/Nagelsmann.
We won't outperform teams and build something special by having a lesser manager than all other top teams.

Takes some courage to try. Arteta or Ljungberg IN. Marcelino off.

Because you don't find those easily.
If they were so common, every top club would have his own unicorn. It's not the case.
Zidane is the only one I can think of who's been a success, during the last few years, when he has transitionned directly from being an assistant to being a head coach.

Fans have to realize that these guys are unique. And should have realistic expectations. These guys are not the norm.

I'm not against taking the gamble on Arteta. On the opposite, I'd be happy to try it.
But let's not have unrealistic expectations, or think he's going to be successful at bringing Pep's philosophy at Arsenal.

Once again, if you look at the history of football, there's more chance that Arteta won't meet expectations than the opposite.

It's like when some fans were expecting drastic changes from Freddie just after 2 training sessions. It's simply not realistic.

Because we all know that if Arteta doesn't have a great start fans will be very fast to turn on him.
We have to accept that we're in a transition period, and finding the right fit might take a few years/different coaches.

 

[Tosker]

Because you don't find those easily.
If they were so common, every top club would have his own unicorn. It's not the case.
Zidane is the only one I can think of who's been a success, during the last few years, when he has transitionned directly from being an assistant to being a head coach.

Fans have to realize that these guys are unique. And should have realistic expectations. These guys are not the norm.

I'm not against taking the gamble on Arteta. On the opposite, I'd be happy to try it.
But let's not have unrealistic expectations, or think he's going to be successful at bringing Pep's philosophy at Arsenal.

Once again, if you look at the history of football, there's more chance that Arteta won't meet expectations than the opposite.

It's like when some fans were expecting drastic changes from Freddie just after 2 training sessions. It's simply not realistic.

Because we all know that if Arteta doesn't have a great start fans will be very fast to turn on him.
We have to accept that we're in a transition period, and finding the right fit might take a few years/different coaches.

so how many second-rate Spanish coaches are there for us to work our way through?