Merci Arsène

Discussion in 'Arsenal History' started by kraphtous, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    He was the manager, of course they will have him to agree before making decision on players contract.
     
  2. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    What? Who told you that? In other threads you're banging on about not keeping up with modern football when in fact this statement insinuates you know nothing about modern football. Plenty clubs now work with directors of football and other such positions thereby allowing the manager to simply manage what he is given.
    Almost everything transfer related in the final years of Wenger's tenure points to the fact that he had very little say in transfer matters.
     
  3. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    My post was about modern tactics. Not how a club work. Sure there are DoF working on deals, but I don’t believe there are no communication between the manager and the DoF, or DoF forcing a manger without him agreeing. For a decision that involves that much amount of money, at least you would host a meeting to discuss about that.
     
  4. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Yes, that may be, but it is clear the decision was not solely that of Wenger's in his final years. That much is clear. To suggest otherwise is wrong but I guess it suits the narrative.
     
    Toby Andrl and Makingtrax like this.
  5. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    It’s all part of the narrative to pretend that Arsène was Gazidis’ boss, instead of the other way around in reality.
     
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  6. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Your obsession with modern tactics is erroneous. The high press was invented by Thomas Gorman in 1934. Every conceivable formation, every type of press, low, midfield and high has been tried before.

    The high energy, high press is suicide in football if you have poor players, which is why most of the teams in the bottom half of the league drop back into a low press and try to use the long ball to exploit the space in the opposition half.

    The only thing that makes the high press so effective today is for rich teams to have high quality players in every position. Pep had this luxury at Barcelona, Bayern and City. Any weakness he swaps out the player with a more expensive one that can do the job.

    Klopp’s Gengen pressing was ineffective for 3 years until he sold Coutinho and got a £156m boost in one window to fill the gaps. Then it clicked.

    To be consistent at the top of the Prem you need money, pure and simple. Wenger never had a squad above 5th in terms of spend. Yes some great players, but never enough. And a couple of poor buys like Mustafi will set you back quickly. His quick passing Wengerball tactics though was a thing of beauty and got us top four for 2o years with a low spend, better than Klopp or Guardiola could ever achieve.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  7. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    And here’s Rinus Michels’ legendary Dutch side in 1974, never gave their opponents time to properly build from the rear. Their high pressing game was legendary. Some people called it total football because not only would they press right up but also interchange positions.

    Michels himself wrote: “To play the game to its full extent you need the world’s best players. Lesser teams will be hit on the break and this could lead to disaster.”

    There’s nothing new in football, except a fountain of money.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    Idea might be similar, but modern tactics are much more developed and the execution are more precise.

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  10. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Of course the high press has been tweaked over the years. We’ve got iPads now. :lol:
     
    Mark Tobias and Football Manager like this.
  11. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Yes, and why is that... because MONEY has attracted the best players in the world where in previous decades they were much less likely to take up the sport professionally because it wasn't lucrative. This really isn't rocket science. Virtually VERY sport on earth which has seen an influx of money has progressed in a similar fashion.
     
  12. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    Needed post. Hate it when people style themselves as understanding tactics but then paint contemporary managers as inventors of the wheel. They're currently all copying and putting different pieces of inspiration together and profit massively from the increased professionalisation and athleticism in modern football. Guardiola's tiki-taka mainly isn't what it is due to him being such a freaking genius, it's mainly only possible because footballers nowadays are basically thoroughbred race horses worth myriads of millions who are physically able to run faster, longer and cover more ground than they could 10, 20, 30 or 50 years ago.

    I wasn't alive in 1974 either, but when you go about banging on how you understand so much about football tactics, you better know about Michels, Sacchi, Herrera, Menotti, Lobanovsky, Happel, etc. Guardiola at City especially is basically emulating a system from the 30s Italian National Team - he's constantly knicking vintage tactics from especially Italy and South America, including his famous "invention" of the false 9 from 40s Argentina.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  13. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Exactly. Systems which, with the players they had at the time, were not working but are now very much possible given a billion pounds to build a squad.
     
  14. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    They were working back then, too. Some of these teams with those tactics have gone down as some of the best ever and were very, very successfull and have stamped ideas and paragons onto the world on how football should be played.

    What makes older football, similar to current Women's football, look less distinct and less precise or developed as that muppet Football Manager called it, is just the athleticism - that's the one and only difference. And that is only possible due to the absolute professionalisation of the sport due to the money that's in it. Contemporary male footballers are streamlined, groomed, fed and paid myriads to be nothing but footballers 24/7 and that has raised the athleticism thus raising the physical intensity, the speed, the distances covered etc. in turn making modern football look more evolved or pronounced. But it's really not. Footballers are just physically more fit now than they have ever been. There hasn't really been a big tactical revolution in ages.
     
  15. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    If you aren't going to take up the Technical Director position can you at least consider running for president in my country?
     
    Toby Andrl likes this.
  16. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    I think there's an ex Arsenal manager available who has a very presidential aura.
     
    Furious, Heskey, carlito'sway and 3 others like this.
  17. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    Edu got ahead of me because him and Emery can share their hair products.
     
  18. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Every so often on AM there’s a perfect post.

    But don’t forget the romantic, and apocryphal, tale of the 1947 Salernitana manager Gipo Viani inventing the sweeper system after he said that he’d observed local fisherman using a 'reserve net' when hauling the morning catch ashore, to (literally) catch any fish which slipped through the net. Lovely stuff. :lol:
     
    Iceman10, Heskey and Toby Andrl like this.
  19. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    Do people these day literally think gerrard+lampard+rooney is better than xavi+busquets+iniesta?
     
  20. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    And what is so clear about that? Do you work at the club so you are so sure about everything even on the board meeting?

    I can assume it’s not wenger decision, but for big decision like that, im sure at least there will be a meeting to get wenger’s agreement. If wenger didn’t agree, I don’t think they will force him to. Even if they try to force him, it’s still half of wenger’s fault that he didn’t stand strong enough being the arsenal manager in front of gazidis.
     

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