Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[celestis]

Here in South Africa we have what is known as ineptocracy - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Your post insinuates that only racists use that term but here it is a very different situation which unfortauntely always revolves around 'race cards' being pulled.. Even black people call out other black people for producing the 'race card' here because it is so frequently done.. Half the country has this 'want it all for nothing' attitude and if you tell them they will need to work for it (Because we're a capitalist society etc) suddenly you're a racist. Something that as a white South African I am subjected to on a virtually daily basis.
Context...

You can always move over here bud , met a few SA families in my town past few years.

 

[Mark Tobias]

You can always move over here bud , met a few SA families in my town past few years.

Believe me, we're trying. Not as easy as just get up and go, you know. So much to consider. Firstly, money is an issue. Secondly, career opportunities. Thirdly, starting again is a daunting thought. Fourthly, all my family and friends are here.
Trust me, this is a topic of much consideration in my household. My wife and I debate the options constantly as we look forward for our young daughter. There won;t be anything left for white South Africans at this rate and it is a huge concern.

But enough about the sh!thole which is my country, this thread is for Özil. What on earth is going on in this lad's head? Has he had a death in the family or something? Lad seems absolutely lost mentally of late.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

Here in South Africa we have what is known as ineptocracy - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Your post insinuates that only racists use that term but here it is a very different situation which unfortauntely always revolves around 'race cards' being pulled.. Even black people call out other black people for producing the 'race card' here because it is so frequently done.. Half the country has this 'want it all for nothing' attitude and if you tell them they will need to work for it (Because we're a capitalist society etc) suddenly you're a racist. Something that as a white South African I am subjected to on a virtually daily basis.
Context...

Interesting comment this, apply this to the Özil situation and you see the problem as this way of thinking is not unique to South Africa either.
We have a player who is not performing, happens to be Turkish/muslim and people are complaining about his performance for Arsenal and Germany. There is a common theme there, actual racism aside (ie some of the stuff reported from german fans at the WC) this isnt about racism or where he is from, this is about his performance and attitude which is not currently good enough for Arsenal. He is not judged by a different standard to anyone else at Arsenal, whatever German fans/management do.
Most Arsenal fans wouldnt have any problem with say Mo Salah doing his thing for us (I certainly wouldnt) for example and most dont have a problem with Elneny either (purely performances aside hes a good squaddie who serves his purpose and aside from being a bit of plodder seems a good sort) so there really isnt this different set of rules that is being implied, its all on Özil and his performances. None of the Erdogan/Germany stuff would matter to me one bit if he was bossing games for us.
The suggestion of racism towards him from Germany being chucked out there by Özil and posing with Erdogan is periphery to Arsenal, whatever the rights or wrongs of it.
It just annoys people who want him to play football to the best of his ability and getting involved in that stuff rather than solving anything for Özil. It's had the inverse effect that now he appears to have completely lost form and gives the impression of a player either sulking/struggling for confidence or both but that appearance actually isnt a new thing for him at Arsenal imo, its just sunk to new lows recently.
For a 350k week a player his actions all smack of ego, entitlement and lack of respect for his club, I wonder if the "R" word will be trotted out if Arsenal fans truly get on his back as well, you'd expect at least a bit of resilience from him for that sort of money surely?
If he is struggling mentally and thats what is going on I genuinely feel sorry for him but the place to sort that out is on the pitch for Arsenal and if you cant take a break. Not on twitter and certainly not with the application and effort he is currently showing for club.

 

[hyruga2]

Özil has never done well against a big club so his performance was actually consistent...consistently poor.

 

[celestis]

Believe me, we're trying. Not as easy as just get up and go, you know. So much to consider. Firstly, money is an issue. Secondly, career opportunities. Thirdly, starting again is a daunting thought. Fourthly, all my family and friends are here.
Trust me, this is a topic of much consideration in my household. My wife and I debate the options constantly as we look forward for our young daughter. There won;t be anything left for white South Africans at this rate and it is a huge concern.

But enough about the sh!thole which is my country, this thread is for Özil. What on earth is going on in this lad's head? Has he had a death in the family or something? Lad seems absolutely lost mentally of late.

Was a brave move but I think he now feels he's got no home . Can't be a good feeling having so many team mates come up and speak against you . After all they 're a World Cup winning team , there's a bond connection that's supposed to be forever that maybe he's lost for good can't be easy .

 

[celestis]

Believe me, we're trying. Not as easy as just get up and go, you know. So much to consider. Firstly, money is an issue. Secondly, career opportunities. Thirdly, starting again is a daunting thought. Fourthly, all my family and friends are here.
Trust me, this is a topic of much consideration in my household. My wife and I debate the options constantly as we look forward for our young daughter. There won;t be anything left for white South Africans at this rate and it is a huge concern.

But enough about the sh!thole which is my country, this thread is for Özil. What on earth is going on in this lad's head? Has he had a death in the family or something? Lad seems absolutely lost mentally of late.

Not just white South Africans that have left I can tell you that

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Interesting comment this, apply this to the Özil situation and you see the problem as this way of thinking is not unique to South Africa either.
We have a player who is not performing, happens to be Turkish/muslim and people are complaining about his performance for Arsenal and Germany. There is a common theme there, actual racism aside (ie some of the stuff reported from german fans at the WC) this isnt about racism or where he is from, this is about his performance and attitude which is not currently good enough for Arsenal. He is not judged by a different standard to anyone else at Arsenal, whatever German fans/management do.
Most Arsenal fans wouldnt have any problem with say Mo Salah doing his thing for us (I certainly wouldnt) for example and most dont have a problem with Elneny either (purely performances aside hes a good squaddie who serves his purpose and aside from being a bit of plodder seems a good sort) so there really isnt this different set of rules that is being implied, its all on Özil and his performances. None of the Erdogan/Germany stuff would matter to me one bit if he was bossing games for us.
The suggestion of racism towards him from Germany being chucked out there by Özil and posing with Erdogan is periphery to Arsenal, whatever the rights or wrongs of it.
It just annoys people who want him to play football to the best of his ability and getting involved in that stuff rather than solving anything for Özil. It's had the inverse effect that now he appears to have completely lost form and gives the impression of a player either sulking/struggling for confidence or both but that appearance actually isnt a new thing for him at Arsenal imo, its just sunk to new lows recently.
For a 350k week a player his actions all smack of ego, entitlement and lack of respect for his club, I wonder if the "R" word will be trotted out if Arsenal fans truly get on his back as well, you'd expect at least a bit of resilience from him for that sort of money surely?
If he is struggling mentally and thats what is going on I genuinely feel sorry for him but the place to sort that out is on the pitch for Arsenal and if you cant take a break. Not on twitter and certainly not with the application and effort he is currently showing for club.

I agree on the point that I don't really see racism as an issue in regards to Özil and his critics.
For Arsenal, most of the critic, not everything, is kinda justified, even though he is somewhat of a favorite to put blame upon by the media - it's just his body-language and him happen to become a player that soaks up criticism.

But for Germany, even though his racism critic is somewhat weird and his meeting with Erdogan screams dumb fella, using him as a scapegoat for the world cup is utter bullshit. They just needed someone to put the blame on and he was always going to be the best possible solution as the Erdogan incident was still a hot topic.

There has been ZERO effect on the team, he has been one of the 3-4 best players of Germany at the world cup who, even though embarrassing at chance conversion, didn't actually play so bad and dominated their games like any other top club, something I already backed up with numbers a few weeks ago.

The root of all discussion is the meeting with Erdogan and nothing else.

The problem in Germany and some performance questions at Arsenal are two distinct things.
Well, at least in itself. The performance drop right now might obviously correlate a bit

 

[Mark Tobias]

Not just white South Africans that have left I can tell you that

Definitely not. And I apologies if that is what it looks like I am insinuating. No, not only white ones leaving.. Only educated ones

 

[A_G]

Özil has never done well against a big club so his performance was actually consistent...consistently poor.

Absolute rubbish. In 14/15 he put in a MOTM display against Liverpool, scored at WHL, played an important role in winning at OT in the FA Cup. The following season he had a goal and assist in both games against United, created a bunch of chances against Sp**s at home, 2 assists v City, goal against Bayern. The following season is when his struggles really began but even then he had two quality performances v Chelsea, one of which was the cup final.

This Özil goes missing in the big games narrative is ridiculous.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

I agree on the point that I don't really see racism as an issue in regards to Özil and his critics.
For Arsenal, most of the critic, not everything, is kinda justified, even though he is somewhat of a favorite to put blame upon by the media - it's just his body-language and him happen to become a player that soaks up criticism.

But for Germany, even though his racism critic is somewhat weird and his meeting with Erdogan screams dumb fella, using him as a scapegoat for the world cup is utter bullshit. They just needed someone to put the blame on and he was always going to be the best possible solution as the Erdogan incident was still a hot topic.

There has been ZERO effect on the team, he has been one of the 3-4 best players of Germany at the world cup who, even though embarrassing at chance conversion, didn't actually play so bad and dominated their games like any other top club, something I already backed up with numbers a few weeks ago.

The root of all discussion is the meeting with Erdogan and nothing else.

The problem in Germany and some performance questions at Arsenal are two distinct things.
Well, at least in itself. The performance drop right now might obviously correlate a bit

Some of it is about scale, he's a devisive footballer on so many levels but he is being paid top top dollar to be at Arsenal and he really should be our star player, our Hazard, our Salah, our De Bruyne but he's no where near that level, not at any point imo in his Arsenal career. Sanchez had 10x the input of Özil whatever the attitude problems he had.
We should however have completed the job and got rid of both of the big time charlies and their attitude problems. A lot of rebuilding is needed anyway, having players with attitudes and chips on their shoulder isnt useful for Emery imo.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Absolute rubbish. In 14/15 he put in a MOTM display against Liverpool, scored at WHL, played an important role in winning at OT in the FA Cup. The following season he had a goal and assist in both games against United, created a bunch of chances against Sp**s at home, 2 assists v City, goal against Bayern. The following season is when his struggles really began but even then he had two quality performances v Chelsea, one of which was the cup final.

This Özil goes missing in the big games narrative is ridiculous.

I wanted to write this response but glad you beat me to it because your memory is a tad better and I'd have left out the WHL goal and 2 assists v City..

 

[KrissKringle]

This Özil goes missing in the big games narrative is ridiculous.

I really don't think it is. Sure, he'll put in a shift every now and then, but for the most part, you'll find him being a passanger in big games.
Just as you gave examples of him showing up, there can be given just as many, if not more, where he was anonymous.

Özil for the past couple of seasons has been inconsistent and there's always this problem about playing him either on the wing or in the middle.
I'd sell him as fast as possible and be done with all these conundrums.

 

[Sammy1887]

This Özil goes missing in the big games narrative is ridiculous.

It is impossible to miss out on something which is largely invisible.

 

[bingobob]

Adapt how?

To be more aggressive and assertive. To be more demanding. To shoot more. To assist more. To be stronger on and off the ball. To have a change in demeanour to look interested. He shows no signs of being willing to grow his game and become a more rounded player.

David Silva yesterday showed what Özil should be doing. Skilful, quick, mobile, forward thinking, tackling with purpose, not afraid to shoot and take people on, efficient and demanding.

I don't think it's to much to ask that a player earning more than Silva and regarded by some as being in a higher bracket displays the same if not better characteristics than him.

 

[wigner]

David Silva yesterday showed what Özil should be doing. Skilful, quick, mobile, forward thinking, tackling with purpose, not afraid to shoot and take people on, efficient and demanding.

I don't think it's to much to ask that a player earning more than Silva and regarded by some as being in a higher bracket displays the same if not better characteristics than him.

Umm, David Silva is supported by immense attacking talent in front and immense defensive talent behind and around him.

The problem with Arsenal is that if you put flawed superstars in the team, the flaws will often overshadow the strengths because the team is heavily flawed. Even Auba was terrible the last two games. Lacazette wasn't great either, either was Mkhi. This is not because they are not tremendous players -- its because in a flawed team like Arsenal they have to do things which they are not outstanding at.

In a truly good team, players complement each other which allows their strengths to be magnified. At Arsenal its the other way around.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Umm, David Silva is supported by immense attacking talent in front and immense defensive talent behind and around him.

The problem with Arsenal is that if you put flawed superstars in the team, the flaws will often overshadow the strengths because the team is heavily flawed. Even Auba was terrible the last two games. Lacazette wasn't great either, either was Mkhi. This is not because they are not tremendous players -- its because in a flawed team like Arsenal they have to do things which they are not outstanding at.

In a truly good team, players complement each other which allows their strengths to be magnified. At Arsenal its the other way around.

Exactly what players and system compliment Özil because we've tried quite a lot in his time here...

Also while I agree with this for the most part I can't say I completely agree. I mean these types of comments were never mentioned with the invincibles team. So you telling me a manager got it right for years and then suddenly forgot this part of the game when Özil arrived? Or is it Emery now?

Under three different managers in the space of four months this guy has been utter garbage. These excuses, while some make good points, are just that.. excuses.
I love mesut but this is ridiculous now. He's one of the highest paid players in the league and we must tinker and adjust every aspect of the team and club to get the best from him. Not that Fvcking great a player then if you ask me.

Who is complimenting Guendouzi (solid form). Who is complimenting Nacho Monreal (consistently strong in a sh!t defence)
Contrary to this bizarre new AM notion, players CAn and should perform even if their team mates do not. I agree our system has flaws but they're not that massive to be deserving of these poor performances Mesut is dishing us out.

 

[JimmyTheMac]

He plays the racism card? How do you people get away with saying nonsense like this?

Criticize Özil on his merits as a footballer, for heaven's sake. All of you bringing this stuff up and then saying that he sucks at football, are really saying he sucks because of other stuff. You wouldn't have to bring up his personal life when speaking about his merits as a footballer, if it didn't corrupt your view of him.

Özil is an extraordinary footballer who was injured a lot last year. Let him play more than two games to see how he adopts to this new system -- why can't you just leave it at that?

No,..... I'm not. I'm saying he sucks at football. I'm saying he's been a lightning rod for criticism both in Germany and the premier league in England. He claims its cause of racism in Germany because he's a Turkish immigrant, but what's the reason it happens where he plays his club football too? English media and pundits and fans don't care that he's a Turkish immigrant to Germany. It's cause he's played terribly and inconsistently for years now and is getting worse. People like you have to turn everything into a social or racial issue when it's purely down to football.
Granted Hoeness and Matthaus are idiots and their comments were poor. But he's been, justifiably, receiving criticism way before that and from all angles.

 

[Keile]

Interesting comment this, apply this to the Özil situation and you see the problem as this way of thinking is not unique to South Africa either.
We have a player who is not performing, happens to be Turkish/muslim and people are complaining about his performance for Arsenal and Germany. There is a common theme there, actual racism aside (ie some of the stuff reported from german fans at the WC) this isnt about racism or where he is from, this is about his performance and attitude which is not currently good enough for Arsenal. He is not judged by a different standard to anyone else at Arsenal, whatever German fans/management do.
Most Arsenal fans wouldnt have any problem with say Mo Salah doing his thing for us (I certainly wouldnt) for example and most dont have a problem with Elneny either (purely performances aside hes a good squaddie who serves his purpose and aside from being a bit of plodder seems a good sort) so there really isnt this different set of rules that is being implied, its all on Özil and his performances. None of the Erdogan/Germany stuff would matter to me one bit if he was bossing games for us.
The suggestion of racism towards him from Germany being chucked out there by Özil and posing with Erdogan is periphery to Arsenal, whatever the rights or wrongs of it.
It just annoys people who want him to play football to the best of his ability and getting involved in that stuff rather than solving anything for Özil. It's had the inverse effect that now he appears to have completely lost form and gives the impression of a player either sulking/struggling for confidence or both but that appearance actually isnt a new thing for him at Arsenal imo, its just sunk to new lows recently.
For a 350k week a player his actions all smack of ego, entitlement and lack of respect for his club, I wonder if the "R" word will be trotted out if Arsenal fans truly get on his back as well, you'd expect at least a bit of resilience from him for that sort of money surely?
If he is struggling mentally and thats what is going on I genuinely feel sorry for him but the place to sort that out is on the pitch for Arsenal and if you cant take a break. Not on twitter and certainly not with the application and effort he is currently showing for club.

The Özil situation has no parallel to South Africa except in that there are racists on both sides pushing their own narrative about black and Turkish people. There's also no "ineptocracy" in South Africa. There are disgruntled whites like Mark Tobias who think they're superior to black Africans, which creates an intolerable and intractable situation for them as far as government and society goes. Most white South Africans I've meet straddle the line between Nazism and insanity, which doesn't help.

But I guess that's what Apartheid was and is. Donald Trump and racist rednecks are less racist than most white South Africans I've met.

Özil, Turks and refugees don't go through the same level of r}cist shenanigans South Africans must go through with white South Africans, but Özil does get flack. On the other hand, he has been performing badly all by himself and he's using racism as a cudgel to pretend he isn't. He shouldn't be called out for being a Turk when performing badly, but I don't think he goes through as much racism as he lets on, particularly when black English players get called all sorts of stuff when they travel outside England.

 

[Maybe]

I don't think it's to much to ask that a player earning more than Silva and regarded by some as being in a higher bracket displays the same if not better characteristics than him.

When he signed that contract, he didn't become better player so asking more from him on the field doesn't make sense. Silva was always better player than Özil and that contract doesn't change that.
His contract is result of terrible management for the last 5+ years, so you should blame management, not Özil.
He is still valuable asset in terms of sales and marketing, I can't see too many people buying Mustafi or Xhaka shirts.

 

[bingobob]

Umm, David Silva is supported by immense attacking talent in front and immense defensive talent behind and around him.

The problem with Arsenal is that if you put flawed superstars in the team, the flaws will often overshadow the strengths because the team is heavily flawed. Even Auba was terrible the last two games. Lacazette wasn't great either, either was Mkhi. This is not because they are not tremendous players -- its because in a flawed team like Arsenal they have to do things which they are not outstanding at.

In a truly good team, players complement each other which allows their strengths to be magnified. At Arsenal its the other way around.

File under Real Madrid better with pace nonsense that was prevalent on here for long enough.

Özil stood out at Werder Bremen which ultimately earned him his move to Real Madrid. We have some top players and even if we didn't that doesn't stop him shooting more, beating players, having a different demeanour or just bring a bit more aggressive and assertive in his play.