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Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

Do you want Özil sold this summer?


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A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
Moderator
But he is paid 350k p/w though. He is the second highest paid player in the league, so again why shouldnt he be then held to a higher standard? The double standards is the **** that bothers me. Pogba/Morata/Lukaku/Sterling/Stones/Soldado/Carroll/Torres/Xhaka/Mustafi etc got back as far as you like have to live up to their pricetags when A-M/world football judges their performances. Theo/Sanchez/Falcao/RVP/Rooney etc have/had to live up to their wages, but Özil is exempt from both?
Holding him to a high standard is one thing, but when people go straight for him after losing 3-0 to a juggernaut like City as if he were somehow responsible it looks ridiculous.
Thought the general thought was he needed pace, Giroud was holding him back and all that (yet not when he was at his best in your eyes), and Özil was one of the best counter attacking midfielders around? That is what I read on here for YEARS! Now we might have signed the fasted CF in world football, so why can he make a difference in games we dont see the ball as much?
People said he needed pace when we were stuck playing Cazorla, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky on the wing and he was getting crowded out because of how congested it was the final third. Combine those line-ups filled with playermakers + Giroud up front and there's no way to utilise Özil on the break like Real did with players such as Benzema/Ronaldo/Higuain/AdM or Germany with Podolski/Muller wide + Klose as CF. Some of the team's better performances in Giroud's mixed first season came with Podolski and Walcott either side of him. He's shown that with France that if you get people running beyond him, he can be more effective.

As for the Aubameyang point, this team simply doesn't counter attack well enough to make use of his pace in those games. This isnt't like Real Madrid circa 2011 who were a well oiled machine on the break who could punish Barca despite having 30% possession, this team is filled with players who take too many touches before the break fizzles out. No use getting the ball to Özil when the other team have got back in position defensively.
Again it also sounds like you dont expect him to do anything against the top teams which I think is incredibly sad and it speaks volumes that you're describing the face of our club, a supposed top team ourselves, that you don't expect him to have any influence on proceedings when we play anyone decent.
It's not that I don't expect Özil to play well in the big games, the issue is that I didn't expect the team to succeed in those games towards the end of Wenger's time. The team has had very little control in midfield in many of those matches so it didn't make sense to expect a #10 to dominate when his team spends most of the game under duress.
:lol: @ help him get involved. Wenger is gone and as we saw last weekend or the end of last season he gets involved when he feels like it. Tactics and starting position mean **** all without application (For another example see our CM/B2B/CF Aaron Ramsey). A manager can play you where he wants, tell you what he wants done, but at the end of the day its up to you to do something about it when you're on the pitch. I hate Ramsey as a footballer, but I give him credit for always trying to make things happen regardless of the situation or the type of game hes having. Thankfully we now have a manager that will yank you if you aren't even trying though as we saw with Özil over the weekend.
What's funny about that? It's a manager's job to put his players in position to be successful. Once he realised that teams had become more adept at neutralising Özil in that role, he could have adapted the set-up like he did in that Chelsea game more often. De Bruyne is a very good example: He was getting a lot of criticism at the WC because Martinez played him in a deeper role that didn't suit him, however in the next game against Brazil he played further up the pitch almost in a false 9 role and put in a MOTM display.
Just for clarification off your earlier reply, do you believe we have a chance against anyone we come up against with Özil or are you merely hopeful we dont lose? That to me is the difference between to two (Cesc and Özil or really to Özil and any other top/hell even merely good player we've had). Özil instills 0 belief in me to be the difference (ironically the name of an ad campaign hes was one of the faces for with Adidas :lol:) when we need our star to raise up and elevate us. IMO we arent getting anywhere as a club with Özil being such an integral piece of the equation.
If the team setup is right, I do have confidence that Özil can be decisive in the final third yes. But I felt the same about Fabregas, he needed the right conditions to succeed as well. He needed protection in midfield because the team was too open defensively when he played in a two. I haven't pinned my hopes on one player since a prime Thierry Henry. Fabregas wasn't that guy either, there were plenty of big game batterings with him in the team; back then Denilson, Diaby, Arshavin and others took most of the blame for those. That was considered acceptable but if you did the same for Özil, you'd get accused of being an apologist.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
I have been calling for him to be played deeper for a while, I don't see why he can't play the role Iniesta played and Silva now occupies in a 433.
His characteristics are similar.
Firstly he is terrible in front of goal, shoots like a girl, look at his penalties. We won't be losing out on much there.
Secondly he is our best player, he should be on the ball more, the easier it is for our pretty limited defence and midfield to get the ball to him the better.
Thirdly he often comes deep to get the ball anyway which throws out the formation and leaves us one short in the attacking third, if we factor it into the formation then we can have the wide players higher up as forwards rather than midfielders.
This would enable us to use Auba wide in a three like Barcelona used to do with Etoo, Henry, Villa etc basically stays wide when we are defending and attacking in transition but appear centrally at the end of the move.
Very few teams actually play a pure ten anymore, Hamez is brilliant, he was a Perez 'Galactico' signing and they have ended up loaning him out for two years because it was so difficult to fit him into a successful structure.
Awesome post. He could just be a perfect fit in a midfield three with Torreira and Gendouzi. Unlike Ramsey, he takes his runs at the right time. He has the skillset to play long balls and through balls fron the deep. Unlike Xhaka, he doesn't fly into stupid tackles and doesn't lose the ball often. He could very easily dictate the midfield letting Mikhi, Iwobi, Auba and Laca in the front. A guy with Özil's vision could contribute a lot more in the middle than in the final third.
 

Fewtch

Özil at 10 And Emery Out
A manager known for his teams intense pressing and style would love to have Mesut in his team. Maybe he’s not as useless and lazy as people would like to think he is.

Could also mean nothing ofc. I doubt he’d say he’s **** if they asked about him
 

LG10

Well-Known Member
No manager is going to randomly criticize an opposition player no matter what they think of them anyways. It's telling that nobody besides United were in for him as well. In his prime he was one of the best playmakers of all time. Fact is he hasn't reached those heights for most of his time here. He's our most important player and has dropped two 1/10s in a row, he deserves all the criticism he is getting. The kind of wages he's on means he can't be dropping these types of performances so frequently.
 

James Bond

Moderation Consultant
Holding him to a high standard is one thing, but when people go straight for him after losing 3-0 to a juggernaut like City as if he were somehow responsible it looks ridiculous.

Your "high standard" is 6th place and a neat end of season highlight compilation then. If you are claiming you hold Özil to a "high standard" but defend his last 2 games (please stop acting like his Chelsea performance didnt happen) and end of last season then I dont know what to say. Lack of ambition and acceptance of failure has spread from Stan/Wenger to supporters I guess.

People said he needed pace when we were stuck playing Cazorla, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky on the wing and he was getting crowded out because of how congested it was the final third. Combine those line-ups filled with playermakers + Giroud up front and there's no way to utilise Özil on the break like Real did with players such as Benzema/Ronaldo/Higuain/AdM or Germany with Podolski/Muller wide + Klose as CF. Some of the team's better performances in Giroud's mixed first season came with Podolski and Walcott either side of him. He's shown that with France that if you get people running beyond him, he can be more effective.

As for the Aubameyang point, this team simply doesn't counter attack well enough to make use of his pace in those games. This isnt't like Real Madrid circa 2011 who were a well oiled machine on the break who could punish Barca despite having 30% possession, this team is filled with players who take too many touches before the break fizzles out. No use getting the ball to Özil when the other team have got back in position defensively.

So again Özil cant produce consistently when we have too much of the ball and he cant produce when we have speed upfront. Got ya. How do we get the best out of Özil then? Why have Wenger, Low and now Emery failed to get him to perform in the last year? (Bar when the contract was on the line)

No other top team play with a player like him anymore and sorry this isn't just a coincidence. I'm tired of hearing how Özil is this unique player his critics just cant uunderstand while we keep hearing excuses for while all types of systems, player combinations, and managers fail to get the best out of him.

Özil is a incredibly inconsistent. The difference between a good player and a elite player is their consistency in performance. Almunia on his day was one hell of a stop stopper, but those days were few and far between and he cost us overall. Özil while being infinitely more talented too can have his days where he is unplayable but those days dont come around enough in my view, especially given his wage packet within the club and within the PL.

Özil's inconsistently/mentality is why I dont believe we will ever win the league with him as the main man. I want him to do more, show his class more, I know he can and I know its in there but it is up to him to show it week in week out.

It's not that I don't expect Özil to play well in the big games, the issue is that I didn't expect the team to succeed in those games towards the end of Wenger's time. The team has had very little control in midfield in many of those matches so it didn't make sense to expect a #10 to dominate when his team spends most of the game under duress.

I wonder why the midfield lacks control!? Hmm I'd wager playing our somewhat limited #10 vs teams that wont give said #10 time or space and leaving the other 2 midfielders outnumbered would have something to do with our lack of ****ing control in big games! You dont expect Özil to play well in big games because Özil is a liability in big games, but don't dare criticize Özil for being a liability after big games. Got it!

What's funny about that? It's a manager's job to put his players in position to be successful. Once he realised that teams had become more adept at neutralising Özil in that role, he could have adapted the set-up like he did in that Chelsea game more often. De Bruyne is a very good example: He was getting a lot of criticism at the WC because Martinez played him in a deeper role that didn't suit him, however in the next game against Brazil he played further up the pitch almost in a false 9 role and put in a MOTM display.

KDB has far, FAR, more in his locker. Not sure the point here. Managers can try different things with him because he is a more versatile player. Özil doesn't offer this opportunity. The screams that Özil "is a #10 and should be played at the #10 only" after every game he is ineffective when played anywhere else by his fanboys help back this up.

If the team setup is right, I do have confidence that Özil can be decisive in the final third yes. But I felt the same about Fabregas, he needed the right conditions to succeed as well. He needed protection in midfield because the team was too open defensively when he played in a two. I haven't pinned my hopes on one player since a prime Thierry Henry. Fabregas wasn't that guy either, there were plenty of big game batterings with him in the team; back then Denilson, Diaby, Arshavin and others took most of the blame for those. That was considered acceptable but if you did the same for Özil, you'd get accused of being an apologist.

We'll have to just agree to disagree here. If you gave me a choice between the two I'd take Cesc when he left over any version of Özil we've had at AFC if I were building a team and needed a creative midfielder in it. Cesc was a talisman and had match winning ability in his locker. Cant point to a single player Özil makes/made better than they were, but apparently everyone else makes Özil look bad.






Sorry about the replies/walls of text A-M. Again, Özil will turn up vs West Ham and you guys can get back to sucking off Özil in peace.
 
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James Bond

Moderation Consultant
Its almost like all top managers rate him.

Its almost like all top managers, except Mourinho, will say something nice about a player if when asked by a reporter.

Özil was in the last 6 months of his contact and was free to sign a pre contract with a foreign club in Jan to transfer in on a free, but there were no links other than playing in Turkey. The PL's top managers like Klopp could have also come in for him in Jan and gotten him for cut price like City and United tried/did for Sanchez, but there was clearly no interest.

Means **** all if Klopp or any other manger stays they rate him when asked as they dont have to try and get the best out of him week in week out and/or as they didn't put their money where their mouth is a move for him when it would have been favorable to do so.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
Its almost like all top managers, except Mourinho, will say something nice about a player if when asked by a reporter.

Özil was in the last 6 months of his contact and was free to sign a pre contract with a foreign club in Jan to transfer in on a free, but there were no links other than playing in Turkey. The PL's top managers like Klopp could have also come in for him in Jan and gotten him for cut price like City and United tried/did for Sanchez, but there was clearly no interest.

Means **** all if Klopp or any other manger stays they rate him when asked as they dont have to try and get the best out of him week in week out and/or as they didn't put their money where their mouth is a move for him when it would have been favorable to do so.

Hasn't Mourinho said repeatedly he's the best no 10 in the World though.
 

James Bond

Moderation Consultant
Hasn't Mourinho said repeatedly he's the best no 10 in the World though.

And? Mourinho also said Wenger was a voyeur. Mourinho literally chats **** all the time. Hell we have a whole thread on here dedicated to laughing at all the nonsense that comes out of his mouth, but you choose to champion some random quote about Özil because it suits you now and you see posted on Twitter all the time?

I said "but Mourinho" as he is the only manager that will say something negative about a player who has never played for them as we saw after Luke Shaw transferred to United. Every other manager is smart enough to just say something nice when asked by a reporter about the going ons of a player at another club and keep it moving.

Again if any of these top managers wanted him there was a opportunity not to long ago, but none were actually willing to make him their problem. Instead of worrying about what other top managers' opinions are of Mesut, Özil FC supporters should worry that his current manager clearly didnt rate his performance on the last matchday.
 
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Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I have been calling for him to be played deeper for a while, I don't see why he can't play the role Iniesta played and Silva now occupies in a 433.
His characteristics are similar.
Firstly he is terrible in front of goal, shoots like a girl, look at his penalties. We won't be losing out on much there.
Secondly he is our best player, he should be on the ball more, the easier it is for our pretty limited defence and midfield to get the ball to him the better.
Thirdly he often comes deep to get the ball anyway which throws out the formation and leaves us one short in the attacking third, if we factor it into the formation then we can have the wide players higher up as forwards rather than midfielders.
This would enable us to use Auba wide in a three like Barcelona used to do with Etoo, Henry, Villa etc basically stays wide when we are defending and attacking in transition but appear centrally at the end of the move.
Very few teams actually play a pure ten anymore, Hamez is brilliant, he was a Perez 'Galactico' signing and they have ended up loaning him out for two years because it was so difficult to fit him into a successful structure.

People still talk about a guy who turns 30 in 8 weeks and has been at the club 5 years like a youth prospect who needs bedding in.

Wherever you are on the pitch you must must fight for the ball and Özil doesn't do that enough at all. Silva and Iniesta do, even when both were stuck on the wing, they fought for their teams. Eriksen too.

Re Özil, the emasculation of Arsenal over the last 15 years has been due to excessive concessions being made for exactly this kind of oversensitive emotionally fragile player and I'm over it. He's as inconsistent as Arshavin.

Our midfield needs more physicality and grit, not less. We are creating enough chances without his involvement yet a 19 year old rookie is carrying our defensive duties. That is unsustainable.

The players we are bringing in under this regime are as competitive as they are talented and that standard, that mindset should be the minimum requirement of every player. No truly successful team has ever made exceptions to this rule.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
And? Mourinho also said Wenger was a voyeur. Mourinho literally chats **** all the time. Hell we have a whole thread on here dedicated to laughing at all the nonsense that comes out of his mouth, but you choose to champion some random quote about Özil because it suits you now and you see posted on Twitter all the time?

I said "but Mourinho" as he is the only manager that will say something negative about a player who has never played for them as we saw after Luke Shaw transferred to United. Every other manager is smart enough to just say something nice when asked by a reporter about the going ons of a player at another club and keep it moving.

Again if any of these top managers wanted him there was a opportunity not to long ago, but none were actually willing to make him their problem. Instead of worrying about what other top managers' opinions are of Mesut, Özil FC supporters should worry that his current manager clearly didnt rate his performance on the last matchday.

What's the matter with you ? You bought up Mourinho in your attempt to downplay Klopps opinion as simply diplomatic when I point out he's stated many times how highly he rates Özil I am somehow the hypocritical one ? There is a difference between appraisal of a player and personal attacks which we rightly condemn. Maybe you need to chill out and stay of this thread for awhile .
 

L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
Doesn't matter who says what in the media. When he was easily attainable and for nothing nobody worth mentioning came forward.
 

Fewtch

Özil at 10 And Emery Out
Doesn't matter who says what in the media. When he was easily attainable and for nothing nobody worth mentioning came forward.
You’re not easily attainable when your club are willing to give you a 350k/w salary lol. If the club refused to pay him that kind of money then he’d 100% leave for a better team
 
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