JazzG
Established Member
Sammer said:
I heard he hated playing as a defensive player but Hitzfeld felt that was his best position. For leverkusen unless I'm mistaken I'm sure he played as an attacking midfielder.
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Michael Ballack
- Thread starter GoonerGurjit
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I heard he hated playing as a defensive player but Hitzfeld felt that was his best position. For leverkusen unless I'm mistaken I'm sure he played as an attacking midfielder.
Chips&CurrySauce
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't exactly say Gilberto is good at carrying the ball Adam. gilberto is a specialist player like Makalele, ie shielding the back four and distributing the ball as soon as he receives it.
Ballack indeed is a great player but since he's been at Bayern he doesn't look nearly as good as he was at Leverkusen. I'm very suprised because when Ballack signed for Bayern I thought he was going to progress even further and establish himself as one of the best centre midfielders in the world, but it seems he has stagnated a little bit at Munich. I rate him very highly though and would love to see him at Arsenal. He plays the game quite similarly to Frank Lampard but obviously technically superior, he times his runs into the box brilliantly and he must be one of the best headers in the game.
I know Wenger has always been an admirer of his so you never know
Ballack indeed is a great player but since he's been at Bayern he doesn't look nearly as good as he was at Leverkusen. I'm very suprised because when Ballack signed for Bayern I thought he was going to progress even further and establish himself as one of the best centre midfielders in the world, but it seems he has stagnated a little bit at Munich. I rate him very highly though and would love to see him at Arsenal. He plays the game quite similarly to Frank Lampard but obviously technically superior, he times his runs into the box brilliantly and he must be one of the best headers in the game.
I know Wenger has always been an admirer of his so you never know
Adam
Established Member
Ballack is a Scholes/Lampard in English terms. Have you ever thought bringing in a CM partner for Vieira like that would actually restrict his influence on the team and the way he likes to control things? He wouldn't be able to burst forward as much and dictate in the other half, as Ballack would always naturally be first there. Gilberto gives him this freedom.
About carrying the ball - you'll see it. Gilberto accelerates very well.
About carrying the ball - you'll see it. Gilberto accelerates very well.
Gurgen
Established Member
The good thing about Ballack is that his defending skills are up there with his attacking skills. We can't say that about Gilberto unfortunately.
nosneb
Member
i take your point that ballack probably enjoys playing as an attacking CM more than a defensive one, but wat i would like to stress again is tat if vieira and ballack were to partner each other in midfield, they would complement each other with the multitude of skills they both possess(distributing the ball, picking out the right passes, tackling, etc) if they were able to put "preferences" aside and submit to the teams cause
eg. if edu partners vieira, vieira tends to hang back more often to compensate for edu's tackling ability when compared to gilberto whilst if gilberto is partnered with vieira, the opposite happens as vieira knows tat gilberto isnt very effective going forward, be it initiating attacks or finishing moves. with ballack, this problem is more or less solved as they both are adept at attacking AND defending in equal measure, resulting in a better balanced team and less lost opportunities on the attacking end (and thus higher effectiveness and efficiency)
of course, all this is just my mad theory.. and you have to factor in that both vieira and ballack are strong personalities and other intangibles, and as such whether they'll gel well, but at the end of the day, i dont think tat anyone can argue tat on paper, based purely on physical and footballing attributes alone, adding ballack would substantially upgrade our team.
lastly Adam, i could be mistaken but i've watched almost every game arsenal have played this season and think gilberto is an important player for the extra cover he provides our defense with his tackling and positioning but gilberto carrying the ball? :shock: to carry the ball, doesnt it have to be at ur feet first? as Chips&CurrySauce says, he is a specialist player who almost always distributes the ball as soon as he receives (or wins) it. even then i find myself shouting at him (
ops: ) due to his many misplaced passes. i think if theres ever been a player culpable for treating the ball like a hot potato, its him. IMHO, ballack is definitely a superior "ball carrier" :wink:
eg. if edu partners vieira, vieira tends to hang back more often to compensate for edu's tackling ability when compared to gilberto whilst if gilberto is partnered with vieira, the opposite happens as vieira knows tat gilberto isnt very effective going forward, be it initiating attacks or finishing moves. with ballack, this problem is more or less solved as they both are adept at attacking AND defending in equal measure, resulting in a better balanced team and less lost opportunities on the attacking end (and thus higher effectiveness and efficiency)
of course, all this is just my mad theory.. and you have to factor in that both vieira and ballack are strong personalities and other intangibles, and as such whether they'll gel well, but at the end of the day, i dont think tat anyone can argue tat on paper, based purely on physical and footballing attributes alone, adding ballack would substantially upgrade our team.
lastly Adam, i could be mistaken but i've watched almost every game arsenal have played this season and think gilberto is an important player for the extra cover he provides our defense with his tackling and positioning but gilberto carrying the ball? :shock: to carry the ball, doesnt it have to be at ur feet first? as Chips&CurrySauce says, he is a specialist player who almost always distributes the ball as soon as he receives (or wins) it. even then i find myself shouting at him (
ops: ) due to his many misplaced passes. i think if theres ever been a player culpable for treating the ball like a hot potato, its him. IMHO, ballack is definitely a superior "ball carrier" :wink:
nosneb
Member
damn u Gurgen! :angel u just made me make a fool outta myself! hahaha! wat i spent 3 paragraphs trying to explain u explained in exactly... 24 words! hahaha!
Chips&CurrySauce
Well-Known Member
Most people will agree our best central midfield partnership was when Petit and Vieira played together. Petit wasn't only a holding player like Gilberto, he used to work up and down the pitch alternating with Patrick and he and Vieira used to close down players together. During Petits spell at the club I would also argue Vieiras form was excellent and in termms of scoring goals Patrick was at his most effective. Don't forget Patrick is primarily a defencive midfielder.
I don't know why people are so obsessed about us having to have a Gilberto type player alongside Patrick, this certainly wasn't the case when Petit was in the team and our central midfield was regarded the best in the premiership. I'm sure Ballack can do a similar role to Manu, if not better. If it means Patrick has to be a bit more disciplined in his style of play, ie sitting back a bit more then so be it!
I don't know why people are so obsessed about us having to have a Gilberto type player alongside Patrick, this certainly wasn't the case when Petit was in the team and our central midfield was regarded the best in the premiership. I'm sure Ballack can do a similar role to Manu, if not better. If it means Patrick has to be a bit more disciplined in his style of play, ie sitting back a bit more then so be it!
Adam
Established Member
It's about having the money to go out and buy this sort of CM who will be offensively orientated comparitive in quality to Vieira (we have never had that before - money has been under ten million and spent on the likes of Gio, Edu and Gilberto). Then, this may force Wenger into thinking it'll work. We have worked around our budget with CM's. How much would it cost to buy another Vieira?....
Cesc is a world class prospect at CM who is offensively talented.
Cesc is a world class prospect at CM who is offensively talented.
Gurgen
Established Member
nosneb said:damn u Gurgen! :angel u just made me make a fool outta myself! hahaha! wat i spent 3 paragraphs trying to explain u explained in exactly... 24 words! hahaha!
Short but to the point mate 8)
Sammer
Established Member
Chips&CurrySauce said:
Good point there. That´s exactly what Ballacks strenghts are - working up and down the pitch, while making impact on our defensive and forward play.
What really makes Ballack interesting is his ability to score goals - perfect shot technique left and right - as well as perfect at heading.
He is a team player though, that needs to feel comfortable - which he obviously never did at Bayern. It really looks like the Barca thing is going to happen.
AFCG7
Established Member
Well it looks like Davids is returning to Barca.. so maybe they wont be chasing Ballack now
Gunner4life09
Well-Known Member
but ballack would be kinda of heavy on the wallet. where as Malbroque, would cost maybe around 8-10. ballack would cost 15.
goonerlove
Active Member
Ballack is better than Malbranque and plays a position we can upgrade... Malbranque would be behind Freddie and compete with JP for second string. We don't need to spend over 5 million for another bench player.
If we are going to buy any more players, they should be value for depth or youth OR star quality at a position we can upgrade (IMHO there are two positions worth targeting: center mid and right back). Personally, I would only buy a star for center mid to partner with Vieira. All other positions are covered well - any other buys should be for depth or youth. Winter transfer window we can address any holes and next summer buy a new keeper.
Goonerlove
If we are going to buy any more players, they should be value for depth or youth OR star quality at a position we can upgrade (IMHO there are two positions worth targeting: center mid and right back). Personally, I would only buy a star for center mid to partner with Vieira. All other positions are covered well - any other buys should be for depth or youth. Winter transfer window we can address any holes and next summer buy a new keeper.
Goonerlove
Sammer
Established Member
Ballack showed his skills yesterday against the dutch.
German newspapers report that the negotiations with Barca are most likely to be done after the Euro 2004.
That game yesterday will cost Barca some more cash
German newspapers report that the negotiations with Barca are most likely to be done after the Euro 2004.
That game yesterday will cost Barca some more cash
brianfrance
Established Member
He must at least do 2 others great matches to cost more I think
20M would be his price IMO - 15 is a bit less than his real value
20M would be his price IMO - 15 is a bit less than his real value
KingReyes
Established Member
brianfrance
Established Member
LOLLL 
What an increase !!!!
What an increase !!!!- Thread starter
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GoonerGurjit
Established Member
Ballack proved yet again what a world-class player he is. Even though they probably won't get on, the thought of Davids and Ballack in central midfield is quite frightening? :shock:
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