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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
I think Arteta’s biggest struggle here has been his lack of ability to put games to bed. The Palace win was a bit misleading, as we showed similar problems to last season and could have been 1-1 a couple times.

We need to stop taking the foot off the gas and going ultra conservative after only going a goal up. I get it when it’s a tough team or past the 75’ mark but doing it in the first half is inviting problems.

Leicester was just an open weird game but I hope in the rest of the tense matches we play we start to put team to bed more while we are on top. We are certainly capable of it but it comes from the manager down.

Imo that will be the difference between top4 and top6.
Palace are a better side than people give them credit for… that was a big result for us. (Yes I’m saying this after the pool result but I did feel like it on the day).

As for all the comparisons with Jurgen- I’m confused. Is that the bar for arteta? To match the achievements of one of (if not the) best managers of his generation? Easy crowd here…

(Somewhat tongue in cheek as I saw the 20 Pt handicap - just pointing it out because you’re still setting the goalposts by klopps standards. For what it’s worth I demand top4 and a challenge for 3rd)
 

Trilly

Survived Aubamazette And Lived To Talk About It
Trusted ⭐
Which agenda is that?
You’re trying to reduce expectations for Mikel by saying it’s unfair to compare their projects after three seasons.

It’s quite transparent tbh. It’s a bit outrageous when you say something like you did about the two squads that then start making excuses instead of explaining your view. 😅

You also tried to do this with the 50M difference in spend, trying to give Arteta a bit of an advantage against Klopp by saying he’s spent less at this point in time.

It’s just pointless point scoring that doesn’t even change anything because there’s a clear gap between the two, I’m not using Klopp to insult Mikel here. We know Klopp is clear of him.


 

Jayramfootball

Well-Known Member
You’re trying to reduce expectations for Mikel by saying it’s unfair to compare their projects after three seasons.

It’s quite transparent tbh. It’s a bit outrageous when you say something like you did about the two squads that then start making excuses instead of explaining your view. 😅

You also tried to do this with the 50M difference in spend, trying to give Arteta a bit of an advantage against Klopp by saying he’s spent less at this point in time.

It’s just pointless point scoring that doesn’t even change anything because there’s a clear gap between the two, I’m not using Klopp to insult Mikel here. We know Klopp is clear.
I have already stated my expectations.
Top 4 plus a Cup. Not changing that.

I just think it’s not a valid way to judge the manager, how much money he spent compared to another manager years ago at a different club under different circumstances.
Hear too much about the money angle.
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸

Player: Cedric
You asked one question, said yikes like Scooby Doo then ran away 😭

Come back and back your boy!🤣
I didn't read the room and didn't realize at the time you and sam were a couple posts into a discussion already. Your train of thought wasn't where I thought it was when I responded with my hot one.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted ⭐
Palace are a better side than people give them credit for… that was a big result for us. (Yes I’m saying this after the pool result but I did feel like it on the day).

As for all the comparisons with Jurgen- I’m confused. Is that the bar for arteta? To match the achievements of one of (if not the) best managers of his generation? Easy crowd here…

(Somewhat tongue in cheek as I saw the 20 Pt handicap - just pointing it out because you’re still setting the goalposts by klopps standards. For what it’s worth I demand top4 and a challenge for 3rd)
Jürgen comparisons nothing to do with my post, I’m not involved in that debate.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli
Which is why it’s better to combine money spent + time as manager. Think Mikel has now spent the same amount as Klopp did just before they became a serious threat. I don’t know the exact specifics but 300M in and Klopp was challenging for titles and getting to CL finals.

Compare what we do this season to what Liverpool did 300M into their project and the difference in outcomes is roughly the difference between Mikel and Klopp.

For me if that difference is too big then he’s not the right man for the job.

I will first of all state like I have before that top 4 this season is a bare minimum for me and my patience with 'the project', looking at Chelsea/Sp**s/Pool vs our squad we could actually get 2nd/3rd although obviously its early days. But yes, 4th is bare minimum and I don't think that's asking too much now.

WRT Klopp/Arteta, you're looking at finished product vs developing talent. Don't think anyone's saying Arteta is at the same level yet, or that he will be, but who knows? If we finish above Pool this season there will be a lot of interesting debates around this subject. Bear in mind at the time of writing this we're 4 points ahead in the PL having played harder matches...which isn't insignificant, but again its early days. They could click into gear, or not? Time will tell.

Thirdly, inflation has generally affected the market since Neymar's move to PSG - ironically it was Barca that handed £200m to Liverpool in the form of Coutinho and Suarez either side of this deal. I don't buy that top players aren't generally worth more on the whole, these two players being prime examples - same selling club, same buying club yet Coutinho is worth £50m more 4 years later. I think most would rate Suarez much higher. Pool seem to have bought well and for decent fees recently, which is a benefit of being a top side that players want to play for. We've also bought well, its one of the reasons I like Arteta and his team, they're just not signing trash players on the whole.

I'm actually not too far off your position tbh, I think most people want to see results this year (myself included) and I think that was always the plan to get into CL and deep cup runs 22/23 season. I think we can get 80 points this year and I'll be surprised if we're not close.
 
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EmeryCouldnt

Established Member
I have already stated my expectations.
Top 4 plus a Cup. Not changing that.

I just think it’s not a valid way to judge the manager, how much money he spent compared to another manager years ago at a different club under different circumstances.
Hear too much about the money angle.

The pure fact that somehow Mikel has convinced the Kroenkes to splash cash is something too. And the players we’ve gotten under Arteta have all been good improvements thus far, most under the radar too.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
I will first of all state like I have before that top 4 this season is a bare minimum for me and my patience with 'the project', looking at Chelsea/Sp**s/Pool vs our squad we could actually get 2nd/3rd although obviously its early days. But yes, 4th is bare minimum and I don't think that's asking too much now.

WRT Klopp/Arteta, you're looking at finished product vs developing talent. Don't think anyone's saying Arteta is at the same level yet, or that he will be, but who knows? If we finish above Pool this season there will be a lot of interesting debates around this subject. Bear in mind at the time of writing this we're 5 points ahead in the PL having played harder matches...which isn't insignificant, but again its early days. They could click into gear, or not? Time will tell.

Thirdly, inflation has generally affected the market since Neymar's move to PSG - ironically it was Barca that handed £200m to Liverpool in the form of Coutinho and Suarez either side of this deal. I don't buy that top players aren't generally worth more on the whole, these two players being prime examples - same selling club, same buying club yet Coutinho is worth £50m more 4 years later. I think most would rate Suarez much higher. Pool seem to have bought well and for decent fees recently, which is a benefit of being a top side that players want to play for. We've also bought well, its one of the reasons I like Arteta and his team, they're just not signing trash players on the whole.

I'm actually not too far off your position tbh, I think most people want to see results this year (myself included) and I think that was always the plan to get into CL and deep cup runs 22/23 season. I think we can get 80 points this year and I'll be surprised if we're not close.

On the money. The only place I differ is that I tend to not care about the points tally as much as positions. I just feel points tallies to get say 4th can vary and depend on the quality of the league. So you might as well just set a target for 4th. (or 2nd. I'm leaning towards 2nd...).

I probably also differ from a lot of people here in that I think a higher points tally required to get 4th doesn't (necessarily) mean the league is stronger. I think (generally) the opposite is true.
 

Trilly

Survived Aubamazette And Lived To Talk About It
Trusted ⭐
I will first of all state like I have before that top 4 this season is a bare minimum for me and my patience with 'the project', looking at Chelsea/Sp**s/Pool vs our squad we could actually get 2nd/3rd although obviously its early days. But yes, 4th is bare minimum and I don't think that's asking too much now.

WRT Klopp/Arteta, you're looking at finished product vs developing talent. Don't think anyone's saying Arteta is at the same level yet, or that he will be, but who knows? If we finish above Pool this season there will be a lot of interesting debates around this subject. Bear in mind at the time of writing this we're 5 points ahead in the PL having played harder matches...which isn't insignificant, but again its early days. They could click into gear, or not? Time will tell.

Thirdly, inflation has generally affected the market since Neymar's move to PSG - ironically it was Barca that handed £200m to Liverpool in the form of Coutinho and Suarez either side of this deal. I don't buy that top players aren't generally worth more on the whole, these two players being prime examples - same selling club, same buying club yet Coutinho is worth £50m more 4 years later. I think most would rate Suarez much higher. Pool seem to have bought well and for decent fees recently, which is a benefit of being a top side that players want to play for. We've also bought well, its one of the reasons I like Arteta and his team, they're just not signing trash players on the whole.

I'm actually not too far off your position tbh, I think most people want to see results this year (myself included) and I think that was always the plan to get into CL and deep cup runs 22/23 season. I think we can get 80 points this year and I'll be surprised if we're not close.
I talked on inflation in an earlier post but even if you knock off 100M for inflation it’s still not close.

Again though you don’t have to back Arteta with these points, it’s not an Arteta v Klopp debate because that’s a pointless exercise.

Klopp and Liverpool are the ceiling. I’m not expecting him to even come close to matching him, we’re not even in the CL, how can we win it? :lol:
 

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
The pure fact that somehow Mikel has convinced the Kroenkes to splash cash is something too. And the players we’ve gotten under Arteta have all been good improvements thus far, most under the radar too.
The kroenkes arent stupid. Edu pretty much spelt it out in that interview he did. Buying young players likely to have resale value == "investment". The problems with this are (a) we need to show we're good at selling players which we manifestly are not and (b) we risk becoming a selling club. I'm willing to give edteta another shot to prove me wrong on (a), but (b) I think is the sad reality given the monumental "levers" of some of the clubs we're competing against
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli
On the money. The only place I differ is that I tend to not care about the points tally as much as positions. I just feel points tallies to get say 4th can vary and depend on the quality of the league. So you might as well just set a target for 4th. (or 2nd. I'm leaning towards 2nd...).

I probably also differ from a lot of people here in that I think a higher points tally required to get 4th doesn't (necessarily) mean the league is stronger. I think (generally) the opposite is true.

I'm not comparing the points tallies to previous seasons in that sense, I just mean that I believe we can win most of our games looking around the league. The only team that really scares me is City, everyone else looks hella beatable.

Agree with everything else, each season should be considered on its own merits since you have 3 completely new teams, and 17 refreshed teams every year so there's too many variables to say X or Y points tally is acceptable. 70 might get CL one year, where 75 is required the next year etc.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli
I talked on inflation in an earlier post but even if you knock off 100M for inflation it’s still not close.

Again though you don’t have to back Arteta with these points, it’s not an Arteta v Klopp debate because that’s a pointless exercise.

Klopp and Liverpool are the ceiling. I’m not expecting him to even come close to matching him, we’re not even in the CL, how can we win it? :lol:

Tbh I don't consider myself a "sexual" :lol: I had to ask my mate WTF that meant and he was creasing up :lol:

And I don't really think I'm "backing Arteta" in the sense that he won't have endless patience from me, but the comparisons with Klopp are interesting as @samspade pointed out...you wouldn't compare league 2 footballers with Messi or Ronaldo, so if you're being compared with Klopp then you're doing something right.

I've said multiple times that this season is put up or shut up for Arteta, so I don't really know what we're still debating honestly :lol: and he's got us playing some good stuff, which is always a bonus.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli

so now we've got Vieira and Aguero saying we're going to do well in the league. Nice!

The kroenkes arent stupid. Edu pretty much spelt it out in that interview he did. Buying young players likely to have resale value == "investment". The problems with this are (a) we need to show we're good at selling players which we manifestly are not and (b) we risk becoming a selling club. I'm willing to give edteta another shot to prove me wrong on (a), but (b) I think is the sad reality given the monumental "levers" of some of the clubs we're competing against

Nah we're not a selling club, no chance of that. Got basically **** all debt, a young squad and a young manager who are looking to prove themselves and succeed. We might see a player go here or there but if a big team comes in for a Saka or Martinelli, we only sell if the money is too good to turn down.
 

TinFish

Well-Known Member
Feel like people are getting a bit too excited and optimistic of Arsenals chances this season. Top 4 is the minimum yes, but I don't expect us to leapfrog the likes of Liverpool. Sure they've had a bad start but they will show their class when we face them.
 

Fabregasm

Well-Known Member
Feel like people are getting a bit too excited and optimistic of Arsenals chances this season. Top 4 is the minimum yes, but I don't expect us to leapfrog the likes of Liverpool. Sure they've had a bad start but they will show their class when we face them.

We are gonna need some luck with the squad staying fit as well. Kane/Son staying fit all season was the main reason why they managed to finished top 4 and I expect the fine margin to be decided this season as well.
 

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