Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[vantoure]

I think, in addition to the two categories you have stated is there a third category. I would call those folks realists.

Lets start with your bottom line, a point where we are all on the same page. We want Arsenal to get back into the top four and work our way back to being an elite side again. The differences of course come in with how we see Arsenal getting there, and its where our groupings come in.

We understand the two categories you've stated, so I would focus on the third one. Realists, understand the cards that we have been dealt. The club is going to back Mikel until there is no other option but to dump him. The club have either seen something behind the scenes themselves that give them the belief, or are too proud to admit we have failed again and will force the issue. Now it would be up to that realist to give you their view as to what they think, and that would determine their posting.

As for the other groups, stat merchants (another agenda gang to be honest) and the agenda merchants. Its either they think that their posting on here is going to somehow force the change that we saw with Arsène (highly highly doubt that would happen), or they do not want to be wrong, and will hold their position until the end.

I've said this before, and its really simple. Its completely possible, and very credible, to hold multiple positions on the manager and club at the same time. Having a fluid approach to our situation is credible because the situation of sport is fluid. One day we are celebrating a edgy win against Leicester, the next we are throwing it away at Old Trafford. More of those days are on the horizon, that I can promise you.

You lose credibility when you decide to die for one position.

This is a good post. However I'll say something, as long as there are people that laughed off consistent top 4 under Wenger, who continue to praise the smallest of wins by Arteta, I'll continue to find it hard to support this manager.

You may call it whatever, but it is frustrating to see the goal post of what's acceptable change in your very eyes by people who scoffed in the face of evidence of arsenal's financial handicap and kept deriding a manager punching above his weight.

And it really isn't as much about Arteta, it's just hard to accept this sudden volte-face. Now if the club or these supporters admit that this is the new reality and that they got it wrong, but we're on a new project, then the hypocrisy will be dealt with and it becomes easier to throw out agendas

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Same old nonsense. The 2nd place finish kick started a serious removal campaign . . fact. Of course we regressed in his last two seasons, I've never denied that.

My stats are never selective. Arsène's 2015/16 whole season stats were superb even though you were frothing to remove him. Who's the agenda merchant?

And Arteta's stats are continuously mid table but you've been talking about part seasons. Who's selective with their stats?

Your posts are both personal and untruthful. But you're not going to provoke me, you'll never change.

It is not the same old nonsense unfortunately. I don't know in how many posts you cite that 2nd place and then make the mental gymnastics and say Wenger wasn't really in charge for the following two seasons because of the media and fan campaigns against him.

Isn't it time that you accept that Wenger had good and less good sides to his management of the club? Become what @SA Gunner describes as a "realistic" poster. Note that this isn't saying you are a **** poster. Many of your posts perfectly fine posts, but you have an absolute pro-Wenger agenda, that makes you have to twist reality and rearrange facts to fit it. It makes you remind me of Alastair Campbell at times.

 

[Makingtrax]

That's exactly it. Regardless if Mikel stays or go, the players signed have given us a great foundation to build upon, not to protect Mikel.

But I don't know how you can be so sure of that. Partey has been poverty recently, but I'm not sure it's his fault. It's very hard to judge the players at the moment. Only when we get a progressive manager in will we know the true value of the players we've heavily invested in.

 

[Makingtrax]

It is not the same old nonsense unfortunately. I don't know in how many posts you cite that 2nd place and then make the mental gymnastics and say Wenger wasn't really in charge for the following two seasons because of the media and fan campaigns against him.

Isn't it time that you accept that Wenger had good and less good sides to his management of the club? Become what @SA Gunner describes as a "realistic" poster. Note that this isn't saying you are a **** poster. Many of your posts perfectly fine posts, but you have an absolute pro-Wenger agenda, that makes you have to twist reality and rearrange facts to fit it. It makes you remind me of Alastair Campbell at times.

I know you were up to your armpits in wanting to remove Wenger and are still heavily invested in trying to rubbish my posts showing his superb stats for spend, like some others caught up in that frenzy. But this isn't the thread to rehash all that yet again.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

This is a good post. However I'll say something, as long as there are people that laughed off consistent top 4 under Wenger, who continue to praise the smallest of wins by Arteta, I'll continue to find it hard to support this manager.

You may call it whatever, but it is frustrating to see the goal post of what's acceptable change in your very eyes by people who scoffed in the face of evidence of arsenal's financial handicap and kept deriding a manager punching above his weight.

And it really isn't as much about Arteta, it's just hard to accept this sudden volte-face. Now if the club or these supporters admit that this is the new reality and that they got it wrong, but we're on a new project, then the hypocrisy will be dealt with and it becomes easier to throw out agendas

What posters do you really describe here? You are painting a picture of some A-M posters that don't really exist. Give me one poster "that laughed off consistent top 4 under Wenger, who continue to praise the smallest of wins by Arteta". I don't think these posters exist outside of you interpretation of posts.

I can accept that people, including myself, who were staunch Wenger-Out, can be considered having been wrong. Maybe we would have been in a better position had Wenger stayed on. I personally doubt it as I think it would have just become worse, but that is a matter of opinion as this didn't happen.

What I find interesting though is that you say that supporting Arteta is difficult because of a perceived hypocrisy on part of some posters. Trust me when I say this: There are better reasons not to be a staunch Arteta supporter outside of that.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I know you were up to your armpits in wanting to remove Wenger and are still heavily invested in trying to rubbish my posts showing his superb stats for spend, like some others caught up in that frenzy. But this isn't the thread to rehash all that yet again.

See, this is the core of your problem. You assume that someone disagreeing with you, or finding your argumentation poor, is "invested" in defending some position held by them. I was Wenger Out but that sure as hell isn't something I would not have come off in a heart beat had things improved under him. ****, I'd even start loving Xhaka if he started playing better! My only anchor points in my views of football is that I hate Mourinho and I want Sp**s to lose!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

PS. Plus Maradona is the greatest player ever!

 

[SA Gunner]

This is a good post. However I'll say something, as long as there are people that laughed off consistent top 4 under Wenger, who continue to praise the smallest of wins by Arteta, I'll continue to find it hard to support this manager.

You may call it whatever, but it is frustrating to see the goal post of what's acceptable change in your very eyes by people who scoffed in the face of evidence of arsenal's financial handicap and kept deriding a manager punching above his weight.

And it really isn't as much about Arteta, it's just hard to accept this sudden volte-face. Now if the club or these supporters admit that this is the new reality and that they got it wrong, but we're on a new project, then the hypocrisy will be dealt with and it becomes easier to throw out agendas

Absolutely agreed mate. The fact that the club decided to completely throw Wenger out, instead of taking a more measured approach of transitioning responsibly and respectfully, will forever be a stain on the credibility of this club. I thus understand the arguments put forward by some, expressing that they do not trust this club to get it right, and that they probably do not know what they are doing right now.

Bring that to the debate table however, because serious posters are willing to listen and engage.

Not this consistent bullshit of Arteta either being the best thing since sliced bread or some no hope fraud who has all club experts either bribed or under his spell. Those arguments are ****ing tired.

 

[SA Gunner]

Fair enough, I understand your point about fluidity over intransigence, but not about statistics.

Klopp's league table progression was from 8th to 1st in 4 seasons But his xG 'for' was up in the top 3 from his 2nd season onwards showing how good his attacking play was, even if he hadn't got some players he wanted. And his xG 'against' had a similar pattern showing his defence was also solid at the same time. His burst of spending gave him some quality in key positions he needed to win silverware.

Arteta xG 'for' has stayed mid table. His xG 'against' is currently16th. This pattern shows neither real progression or that he can defend or attack. And worst he's had his burst of spending.

Stats only confirm what you see with your eye. Over time they show a pattern. I'll be happy to be 'Arteta in'if there's a sign of improvement because I was foolish enough to think he could do the job, but at the moment it seems the club is just wasting time and money.

Fair enough mate, look I will be the first to tell you that I am not happy with the performance of our team. Its just embarrassing for a club with a tradition of progressive, dominant football for over 25 years.

The reason why I am willing to give the man a chance to prove us wrong, since he is here for now anyway, is because despite all the poor statistics, is there one statisic (the most important one mind), that is still very much in our favour...

A third of the season gone, and we are still in the hunt for the Champions League. The debate should be centered around that, on a game by game basis IMO.

And you would notice how this critical statistic is being dismissed by our statisticians here, making all sorts of excuses about other teams being poor but it CANNOT be the work of this manager. That is why I call our statisticians agenda merchants.

 

[Kav]

Go and find a poster on this forum who would blindly support anything and everything that Arteta does, and continuously make excuses for him? And that goes for you too @Oxeki.

I only count @hairspray and @al-Ustaadh and they aren’t here anymore.

It’s time you both and others like you put your bullshit aside and respect the views of those who are open to giving a more balanced approached to our dealings on the field.

Because if anyone is starting to look like a shill or shills… it’s you who want to make everything hopeless, are nowhere to be found when the boys actually do good and have the loudest mouths when we suffer a loss or humiliating draw. I’d even bet some of you secretly want us to continuously lose as well FFS.

It’s time to grow up.

I’m not sure I’m following your post here. What are you arguing and why? Because it doesn’t seem to relate to the discussion oxeki and I were having.

 

[Makingtrax]

Fair enough mate, look I will be the first to tell you that I am not happy with the performance of our team. Its just embarrassing for a club with a tradition of progressive, dominant football for over 25 years.

The reason why I am willing to give the man a chance to prove us wrong, since he is here for now anyway, is because despite all the poor statistics, is there one statisic (the most important one mind), that is still very much in our favour...

A third of the season gone, and we are still in the hunt for the Champions League. The debate should be centered around that, on a game by game basis IMO.

And you would notice how this critical statistic is being dismissed by our statisticians here, making all sorts of excuses about other teams being poor but it CANNOT be the work of this manager. That is why I call our statisticians agenda merchants.

OK, I see where you're coming from, 'hope springs eternal'.

 

[SA Gunner]

OK, I see where you're coming from, 'hope springs eternal'.

To be absolutely honest with you mate, now that Rangnick's gone, I'd dump Edu and Mik for Potter and Wenger, if the legend would come back to help us and is willing to have Per as his understudy for a few years. Failing which, give Ten Hag and Overmars the keys to the castle.

 

[Rimaal]

Apparently (according to Rory), Klopp told Origi before sending him on yesterday "Go on and be Divock", meaning just go and be yourself, do what you do. Also Klopp's nickname for Origi is "The Legend".

That's man management - giving every man what he needs to perform.

I then I think back to our sideline puppeteer and

 

[Paperino]

Who is Rory?

 

[Makingtrax]

This is a good post. However I'll say something, as long as there are people that laughed off consistent top 4 under Wenger, who continue to praise the smallest of wins by Arteta, I'll continue to find it hard to support this manager.

You may call it whatever, but it is frustrating to see the goal post of what's acceptable change in your very eyes by people who scoffed in the face of evidence of arsenal's financial handicap and kept deriding a manager punching above his weight.

And it really isn't as much about Arteta, it's just hard to accept this sudden volte-face. Now if the club or these supporters admit that this is the new reality and that they got it wrong, but we're on a new project, then the hypocrisy will be dealt with and it becomes easier to throw out agendas

Beautiful stuff.

 

[Jury]

Hmmmm, I disagree with a ton of this, sorry @field442. He’s not buying time just because he bought younger players.

It’s the football equivalent of a covid denial theory tbh. You’re not allowed to use and then acknowledge the age of some of your players because that’s tantamount to sending ‘you can’t sack me!’ messages to the board and the fans…

Just think about how mental that is for a few seconds

And of course, this ‘you can’t sack me’’ tactic (it’s clearly bollocks) most definitely wasn’t ever used by any other manager in our history…

 

[Makingtrax]

To be absolutely honest with you mate, now that Rangnick's gone, I'd dump Edu and Mik for Potter and Wenger, if the legend would come back to help us and is willing to have Per as his understudy for a few years. Failing which, give Ten Hag and Overmars the keys to the castle.

Absolutely. Can't wait to look forward to matches again. Used to go to the stadium quite regularly. I live 180 miles away but can make it there and back easily in a day, or take the camper van and stay overnight at Abbey Wood. I stopped going early 2018 because I couldn't stand the abuse and haven't been since. Would have loved Rangnick, there's something about having an older maestro with a big personality in charge.

 

[Paperino]

It’s the football equivalent of a covid denial theory tbh. You’re not allowed to use and then acknowledge the age of some of your players because that’s tantamount to sending ‘you can’t sack me!’ messages to the board and the fans…

Just think about how mental that is for a few seconds

And of course, this ‘you can’t sack me’’ tactic (it’s clearly bollocks) most definitely wasn’t ever used by any other manager in our history…

Our history? You support Chelsea. What on earth are you doing here?

 

[Jury]

Our history? You support Chelsea. What on earth are you doing here?

How is this still here ffs?

 

[Sanchez11]

Main problem for him right now is getting Auba scoring, i cant see where the goals are coming from tbh.