Oleksandr Zinchenko: C’est Zinny

[MutableEarth]

Don't really want to pile onto Zinchenko - he's been one of our better players in a great season. However, it's not the first time he's been a weak link in some of the bigger games we've played this season and it hasn't gone unnoticed. It's tricky when we face teams who our going to fight us for control rather than let us have it - Zinchenko becomes a lot more nulified as he was against Liverpool. It's worth noting that no player will be perfect of course, but I feel like Zinchenko's weaknesses were laid bare yesterday, including the fact that he's a very emotionally charged player and that can be a strength as well as a weakness.

The entire left side yesterday was being carried by Martinelli largely, with Gabriel also doing a lot of work. Xhaka and Zinchenko were outfought largely and I would not normally say that about the former either. That was a theme vs Newcastle aswell. I feel there's still an extra gear to be had from that left side combination. May sound harsh but while I expect Zinchenko to continue to be a success in the near future, I do envision him eventually becoming replaced by someone a bit sturdier in a couple of seasons. We'll have to see how it goes - in any case, I want to see him bounce back vs West Ham.

 

[OnlyOne]

Come on it’s not like people thought he was very good defender until yesterday. He is a midfielder by trade and has been doing a job in a system set up for him. Just as we changed tactics from last season doesn’t mean we can’t tweak it next season. In the future tell me why he can’t be a very good midfielder?

Neither Pep or Mikel has put him at CM though when given the opportunity.

I think he could be a very good midfielder but for our system we need a LB who can do what Zinny does. It’s why I think Martinez could have been a really good signing at LB for us.

 

[OnlyOne]

Don't really want to pile onto Zinchenko - he's been one of our better players in a great season. However, it's not the first time he's been a weak link in some of the bigger games we've played this season and it hasn't gone unnoticed. It's tricky when we face teams who our going to fight us for control rather than let us have it - Zinchenko becomes a lot more nulified as he was against Liverpool. It's worth noting that no player will be perfect of course, but I feel like Zinchenko's weaknesses were laid bare yesterday, including the fact that he's a very emotionally charged player and that can be a strength as well as a weakness.

The entire left side yesterday was being carried by Martinelli largely, with Gabriel also doing a lot of work. Xhaka and Zinchenko were outfought largely and I would not normally say that about the former either. That was a theme vs Newcastle aswell. I feel there's still an extra gear to be had from that left side combination. May sound harsh but while I expect Zinchenko to continue to be a success in the near future, I do envision him eventually becoming replaced by someone a bit sturdier in a couple of seasons. We'll have to see how it goes - in any case, I want to see him bounce back vs West Ham.

Thought Gabriel was magnificent yesterday.

Problem is it’s very difficult to get a player who’s as comfortable on the ball as Zinny while being a very good defender, I can’t think of many who could do a bit of both.

I know a player who is much more athletic thank Xhaka that could be up and down the pitch supporting Zinny tho.

 

[Rasmi]

Neither Pep or Mikel has put him at CM though when given the opportunity.

I think he could be a very good midfielder but for our system we need a LB who can do what Zinny does. It’s why I think Martinez could have been a really good signing at LB for us.

This is not the only way to play foot. Arteta never played this way until this season. I don’t get how only converted lb is the way we can play now. I still maintain its to cover xhaka and the weakness in midfield. If we get someone like rice in with his legs Zinchenko crowding midfield becomes redundant

 

[OnlyOne]

This is not the only way to play foot. Arteta never played this way until this season. I don’t get how only converted lb is the way we can play now. I still maintain its to cover xhaka and the weakness in midfield. If we get someone like rice in with his legs Zinchenko crowding midfield becomes redundant

I guess we'll see, I mean the reason is obvious why we didn't do it last year, we didn't have anyone who could do it which is why we brought Zinny and wanted Martinez.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

I agree with you, but I have no patience for it at this level unless you can learn from the mistakes you’re making.

Unfortunately Zinny repeats these types of mistakes. He cost City too a few times in high profile games.

Easy to see why Martinez was first choice. Also super technical skilled with both feet, but way better and stronger defensively.

Arteta do like players who defenders minded that's why martinez was first choice but we'll have trouble with him offensively because he simply can't do Zinchenko role so it works both ways but im happy with Zinchenko even tho he not good defensively but we dominate games with him much better

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

I liked @A_G idea putting Tierney on and move Zinny in midfield or even on left wing. Its not unheard of when going all out defending. Wenger used to do it with Clichy and Gibbs and even Monreal.

I also thought that was one of our selling point to Zin when we bought him that he would get more chances in midfield. But guess it was not.


All in all we should have got away with it anyway. 4 center backs on the field and Firmino should never had free header like that. With that said Zin gave Trent to much.

 

[SomGooner]

The way he was mugged off by TAA in their equaliser was embarrassing.

How you let a RB nutmeg you like that and still put in a cross?

 

[say yes]

I still don’t get it. He is a perfect midfielder next to a DM. Buy Rice and move Zinchenko up and you have your midfield covered

Yeah, you don’t get it.

If you start Zinchenko in midfield then you’re no longer creating a numbers advantage in that position when he inverts from LB.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

The way he was mugged off by TAA in their equaliser was embarrassing.

How you let a RB nutmeg you like that and still put in a cross?

Tbf Trent is elite attacking full back and even when having a bad season he hit a game od his life yesterday.

But yeah sad we didnt manage to stop him.

 

[Rasmi]

Yeah, you don’t get it.

If you start Zinchenko in midfield then you’re no longer creating a numbers advantage in that position when he inverts from LB.

And you don’t get this is not the only way to play football and like any formation it has it’s good and bad points. Against team with good wing play it’s bad setup

 

[Rasmi]

The way he was mugged off by TAA in their equaliser was embarrassing.

How you let a RB nutmeg you like that and still put in a cross?

It was, what’s even worse is to have 4 CBs in there if you include white and lose that header. Ben was shocking for the goal

 

[HollandGooner]

Why change what's working so well for us though? We're top of the league and could finish around 90 points yet suddenly because Zinny got nutmegged in the 87th minute at Anfield you want to play him in a position he's never played in at Arsenal.

I understand your point and its working very well, but i still think he will be amazing in midfield.

 

[HollandGooner]

The way he was mugged off by TAA in their equaliser was embarrassing.

How you let a RB nutmeg you like that and still put in a cross?

Still think Zinchenko is not an LB and against teams who have good wingers it can cause us, but we played against one of the best teams in Europe still for me cause Liverpool are a great team.

Think we should use Zinchenko in midfield eventually has all the ingredienst you could ask for also plays there for Ukraine but thats another story.

 

[OnlyOne]

I understand your point and its working very well, but i still think he will be amazing in midfield.

Don't think he has the athleticism for our left 8 role.

 

[say yes]

And you don’t get this is not the only way to play football and like any formation it has it’s good and bad points. Against team with good wing play it’s bad setup

There are obvious downsides to playing Zinchenko at LB, but your final sentence is characteristically too simplistic.

If he can help us control the ball and midfield, as he did for much of the first half, then it can be a brilliant setup as even the best wingers in the world can’t do anything without the ball, when we’re sustaining attack after attack.

It’s when we lose control (and have little hope of regaining it) that you want Tierney and his better 1v1 defensive abilities on the pitch.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Played well, but Tierney should have been brought on when we were parking the bus with 5 at the back near the end as he is the better defender.

Literally Trent tried to do the exact same thing to him, but Kieran not only tackled him but won a throw in for us.

Big shame.

We shouldn't have been defending with 5 at the back in the first place. Pool started to look dangerous when they pinned us, you don't react to that by saying "yes please, pin me more daddy." We needed more attacking outlets in wide areas to kill Pool's pressure at the 60 minute mark, the waves of pressure just made the draw or loss feel inevitable.

 

[Rasmi]

We shouldn't have been defending with 5 at the back in the first place. Pool started to look dangerous when they pinned us, you don't react to that by saying "yes please, pin me more daddy." We needed more attacking outlets in wide areas to kill Pool's pressure at the 60 minute mark, the waves of pressure just made the draw or loss feel inevitable.

Arteta really suck at changing flow of a game. That’s by far his biggest weakness and he has always defended deep and concede initiative when a goal up. Look at Leeds away and Brighton. He always retreats

 

[DJ_Markstar]

He is instrumental because he covers xhakas flaws. If you have a fully functioning midfield his ability to play in midfield becomes less important and his defensive flaws will be even more obvious. Is Arteta whole plan of being Btec Man City?

I get we end this season as we are, but this is something that needs to be addressed in the summer. He is a midfielder and it would make so much sense to just move him to midfield and get a proper left back

Has to be the most garbage take I've read about either player tbh.

The reason Zinny plays inverted and we effectively have a 3-2-2-3 on the ball is tactical in nature and not about a single player. We dominate the middle and encourage any counter-attack to be in wider, less dangerous areas as opposed to central areas, which is a common problem with dominant teams and systems. Has nothing to do at all with Xhaka's flaws.

As you need physically elite CBs who are both quick enough not to get burned to suffocate the central counter attack threat, and can also perform a standard CB role of distribution and aerial presence, the "flaws" of your CBs are far more important in a tactical sense.

 

[BodyOderggard]

Zinny and White need fewer minutes. Their defending is below wheee the it needs to be. Need to buy some defensive fullbacks in the summer.