Our slow and lethargic football

[MD3 Gunner]

It's been slow and lethargic since we left Highbury.

You must've missed 2007-08 or something..

 

[squallman]

As I said I can't judge him properly, but people that have seen him would put him above Ramsey.

From the ones I have seen, do you think Aaron's names belongs alongside the likes of Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira or Adams?

When you invoke those four names, are you using their ability as players to say because Ramsey wasn't as good as they were he isn't a legend?

Then I ask you this. Do you think Keown's name belongs alongside those names? Or Ray Parlour's? Those two weren't as good as the four you mentioned but they're still legends.

Why is Aaron any different?

Is this an Arsenal thing, where if you're not as good as the four best players in the history of the club you aren't a legend?

Carrick is nowhere near Scholes as a player but I never hear United fans downplaying his status.

I prefer to look at what a player achieved at the club and what his contribution was to that success. Clichy has a league winners' medal but I don't consider him to be a legend

 

[GoonerJeeves]

You must've missed 2007-08 or something..

 

[Riou]

When you invoke those four names, are you using their ability as players to say because Ramsey wasn't as good as they were he isn't a legend?

Then I ask you this. Do you think Keown's name belongs alongside those names? Or Ray Parlour's? Those two weren't as good as the four you mentioned but they're still legends.

Why is Aaron any different?

Is this an Arsenal thing, where if you're not as good as the four best players in the history of the club you aren't a legend?

Carrick is nowhere near Scholes as a player but I never hear United fans downplaying his status.

I prefer to look at what a player achieved at the club and what his contribution was to that success. Clichy has a league winners' medal but I don't consider him to be a legend

Keown is definitely a legend for me, only centre back we have had better than Martin since is Sol Campbell, that's how good I think Keown was...top man marker, like Kos but a bit of a scumbag (in a good way) and more of a leader.

Ray is tricky, he moves up and down in the tiers for me...very underrated player, a starter in 2 league winning teams on merit, brilliant character too...bit like Carrick in terms of being overlooked.

Carrick is better than Ramsey though, he was (in my opinion) United's best midfielder in the 2006-2009 run.

I am not just picking on Ramsey, I don't think any player who hasn't played at Highbury is an Arsenal legend...we have a massive and successful history and even though we have had some great players at the Emirates, none have hit the heights of our past yet.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

I’m not comparing am I? I said he has a similar play style.



When I say ability I’m talking about one facet of his game. I didn’t say he’s a copy of Ramsey. Calm down.

Calm down? Im laughing at what you said. Ramsey can get a goal by timing his runs, Wilock just kind of arrives and hovers around there without doing much. Its pointless to bring the playstyle up and say he can do similar, its like saying Xhaka has a similar playstyle to Xavi because they both pass the ball long, like I mean yeah sort of ... but really?

 

[MD3 Gunner]

Calm down? Im laughing at what you said. Ramsey can get a goal by timing his runs, Wilock just kind of arrives and hovers around there without doing much. Its pointless to bring the playstyle up and say he can do similar, its like saying Xhaka has a similar playstyle to Xavi because they both pass the ball long, like I mean yeah sort of ... but really?

Willock is crap just another overhyped youngster at Arsenal

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Has a go at you for comparing Willock to Ramsey, but compares Ramsey to Vieira

I love Aaron, but just no.

Ramsey was as much a threat arriving in to the box when in form as Viera was, missed the all round gameplay but purely on a threat to goal Ramsey is more than comparable, he scored 16 goals from midfield in one season and he was injured for a chunk of it ffs.

 

[progman07]

Whose fault is it?

The worst part about us, is that we're so slow and ponderous. Under Wenger at times, we would let in goals like a sieve but still score them at the other end. Then we created a boat load of chances but couldn't finish them off.

Now we're hardly creating chances and we still let in goals left, right and center.

I blame the midfield and its utter lack of creativity. It has been over a decade since we had a top striker and a top AM at the same time. However I also partly blame the managers and tactics. I think Emery and Arteta tried to make us more secure at the back. However that isn't Arsenal and Emery at least isn't a defensive minded manager.

If we're going to be ****, lets go for broke at least. I hate the way we play right now.

This started under Wenger, though it became significantly worse under Emery.

As you perfectly grabbed the key message - we don't have players with creativity. No Pires, no Rosicky, no Cesc, no Cazorla, not even a Ramsey. We cannot play a through ball because the likes of Guendouzi, Willock, Ceballos don't have the fast thinking and technique to play those passes. Xhaka is good at long passes but rarely ever puts team mates into goalscoring positions.

Basically we have Saka, and that's it.

 

[Mitch]

Ramsey an arsenal legend:rofl:

Ramsey wasnt even an automatic starter throughout his Arsenal career minus the 3 month the purple patch.

Thats on par with saying the likes of Edu and GVB are Arsenal legends. At least these two were better players and didn't constantly give the ball away through reckless passing or get dribbled past at ease as Ramsey did.

 

[Arseshavin]

I would like to see the average amount of touches that we take before passing the ball. Under Wenger, there was much more of an emphasis on moving the ball quickly. He was all about the team asserting itself and getting to the final 3rd quickly.

This is not at all how I remember the last at least five years of Wenger's tenure. From what I remember lots of people wanted Wenger out partly because of the slow sideways buildup of play, which lead to us playing sideways outside the opposition penalty area way too often, and with the consequence of being countered way too many times while staying too high up on he pitch with most of the team.

 

[gamechannel]

This is not at all how I remember the last at least five years of Wenger's tenure. From what I remember lots of people wanted Wenger out partly because of the slow sideways buildup of play, which lead to us playing sideways outside the opposition penalty area way too often, and with the consequence of being countered way too many times while staying too high up on he pitch with most of the team.

Except Wenger's last few years were still a more eye pleasing brand of football than what we have seen the past 2 years. Wenger's time was up but Emery and Arteta's brand of football makes a past-it Wenger look like prime-Wenger in comparison. I have hope that Arteta will turn it around and knce hes able to bring his preferred players will play a better brand of football. But so far, I'm not enjoying what I watch.

 

[MutableEarth]

This is not at all how I remember the last at least five years of Wenger's tenure. From what I remember lots of people wanted Wenger out partly because of the slow sideways buildup of play, which lead to us playing sideways outside the opposition penalty area way too often, and with the consequence of being countered way too many times while staying too high up on he pitch with most of the team.

A key part of my post was "getting to the final 3rd quickly". We did tend to overdo it in the final 3rd towards the end of Wenger's tenure but at least we actually used to be in the final 3rd and could get there with relative ease - even against the stronger teams. Now we're lucky if a player gets more than 10 touches in the box.

 

[Riou]

 

[Garrincha]

 

[Ash10]

It’s down to the crap midfielders we have now days. We used to have guys like Cesc, Wilshere, pre injury Ramsey etc as young midfielders to rave about.
Now people are hyping up Willock ffs. Says it all really

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

We have slow and lethargic players. Even those with natural pace aren't technically gifted enough to play at anywhere near their top speed.

 

[Red London]

I'm losing braincells listening to some of these debates. Why are Vieira, Ramsey and Willock being compared to eachother

 

[Red London]

There are myriad of reasons. After the poor mentality and relaxed attitude our squad has had for a long time now (Spa FC etc), it is also down to personel issues.

We have a very poorly balanced side. The best word to describe our squad is 'confused'. I don't think we really have an identity anymore. We pretend we are still this sexy football team but we have players like Xhaka and Guendouzi in the midfield. Since Santi left we have not been able to build up in the same way we used to.

Xhaka can't make quick and incisive passes or dribbles in the midfield, he is a long pass expert. Ceballos takes 5 hours on the ball, so does Guendouzi unless he's angry, and Torreira is more of a defensive minded player. On top of that, we are playing people like Aubameyang on the wing who is a poor footballer, and this season the ball just seems to bounce of Lacazette. Our link up play is therefore poor.

We need a midfielder who has the ability to break opposition lines. Right now everything is so predictable and in front of the opposition. It becomes really lethargic and tedious. If we want to play good football we need a couple new midfielders, as well as an actual winger e.g. Saka on the left wing. I'm beginning to realise that if Auba doesnt really suit Arteta's system, as well as being extremely pricey and on his last big contract, we might as well cash in on him and sign a player like Edouard for the CF position with the money.

 

[MutableEarth]

I'm losing braincells listening to some of these debates. Why are Vieira, Ramsey and Willock being compared to eachother

Pointless.

 

[Manberg]

I second the Ramsey is/was world class claim. Ramsey’s as good as nearly any midfielder we ever had. Unreal engine and dynamism, with runs into the box. Good pass, technique and flair too. One of a kind.
Problem with the word “legend” is that club legend doesn’t directly correlate with ability, but rather fan opinion. I think he’s a legend but accept that many will disagree. I can comfortably say we wouldn’t have won 2 FA cups if it wasn’t for him.