Ozan Kabak

[Wilshero]

I do love signings like this, but at the same time I think players this young need to learn their trade from playing in a working defense. I'm just not sure our current defense is a great learning environment for him right now.

 

[Beksl]

You don't like value for money situations? I love them.

You know what I meant.

 

[Artisan]

Saliba was probably too expensive and now we are working our way down the list until we find someone in our price range. We'll probably find some plumber on a free and give him a 100k contract, I hear Cahill is available.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Has to be Saliba over this guy. Need a pacey duel specialist to go alongside a Holding. Both would be ideal.

 

[Toby]

Tbh I think with Kabak the route should be to use the opportunity of the release clause, which is only in effect this summer because it's triggered solely by Stuttgart getting relegated - without that he was quoted at 40m already - but then loan him back to the Bundesliga for a season and let him mature a bit with regular game time.

Gladbach could be an interesting option. They only have 2 quality CBs and will be playing some interesting football under Marco Rose. Same goes for Werder Bremen who lack good CBs and play quality offensive football. Maybe Eintracht Frankfurt could be an option if N'Dicka is lured away.

All in all Kabak is a great prospect and someone you should definitely be in for at such a cut price thanks to a release clause, but I'm not sure he'll be an instant reinforcement, especially with limited game time. On the other hand he came into a struggling and relegation battling Stuttgart side and immediately established himself as a starter and one of the very few who still managed to consistently show solid to good performances, only droppping off at the tailgate of the season and in the relegation playoffs.

It's a little bit of a gamble and I wouldn't want to see such a young and promising guy run into the ground by either carrying the weight of having to fix Arsenal's defence or wasting away on the bench. That's why I think another season BL might be the best option, similar to what Bayern did with Gnabry.

I'm also not one of those who think this summer definitely needs a massive investment at CB. Holding did a great job and his injury was unfortunate. Mavropanos seems very talented but is just exactly what happens when you consistently put these young guys on the bench.
I was an advocate of selling Chambers, especially as his season with Fulham will have salvaged his value, but I think Sokratis, Holding, Chambers, Koscielny and one of Mavropanos/Bielik can be a solid enough backline centrepiece with better coaching, and Mustafi is obviously the one who needs to go the most.
At the same time, with Ramsey gone, Elneny hopefully out the door finally, Guendouzi obviously being too raw, and big questions marks over Xhaka there's a glaring need for a central midfielder; everyone knows about the problems on the wings - offensively and defensively -, and I think these positions - RB backup, LB, CM, wingers - especially in context of this season's abysmal offensive play, are the much more pressing issues to where funds should be directed. I don't see any upside in e.g. selling Chambers but then wasting money on someone absolutely underwhelming like Djene Dakonam.
The trick in getting this team back on track isn't stockpiling defenders or replacing all our CBs in one window (bar Mustafi), but in getting them back to play football in turn posing a bigger threat to opposition again and finally getting collective defending right. Imo a Van Dijk like signing - e.g. splashing most of the tranfer budget on a highly rated CB - won't solve Arsenal's core defensive problems, and the comparison is imo skewed. Virgil was the individual top quality icing on top of a working collective defensive system. Something like that is imo not what's needed at Arsenal right now. I don't think in this current situation a top top CB will massively improve the backline or kind of seal it, like Virgil did at Liverpool. Get the collective right, then add more individual quality to it where needed.

With Kabak the interesting prospect is that you snatch up a 40m rated youngster for 15m - a good portion less of what e.g. Saliba would cost -, loan him out and let him develop with a lot of game time another season and then in 20/21 you're joined by a 60m rated top young CB - who you got for a measly 15m. It's a long term freeing up of transfer funds and basically saves you around 25m this season and 60m next. I mean this season whoever comes in at CB like Dakonam, Saliba, Kabak whoever, they're either underwhelming or won't be instant help. So why not invest clever in the future and work with what you've got this season, e.g. Chambers?

 

[Slartibartfast]

As should be clear with a 18/19 year old: his game reading/awareness and positioning is questionable at times and he won't stabilize a struggling defence.

Nice summary. About this part, I would say the same thing about Konate, who everyone drools over. It's just what you get with such an inexperienced player (at any position as even Mbappe has been prone to mistakes). If he's mistake prone at times, at least he is that with a ton of upside.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

Tbh I think with Kabak the route should be to use the opportunity of the release clause, which is only in effect this summer because it's triggered solely by Stuttgart getting relegated - without that he was quoted at 40m already - but then loan him back to the Bundesliga for a season and let him mature a bit with regular game time.

Gladbach could be an interesting option. They only have 2 quality CBs and will be playing some interesting football under Marco Rose. Same goes for Werder Bremen who lack good CBs and play quality offensive football. Maybe Eintracht Frankfurt could be an option if N'Dicka is lured away.

All in all Kabak is a great prospect and someone you should definitely be in for at such a cut price thanks to a release clause, but I'm not sure he'll be an instant reinforcement, especially with limited game time. On the other hand he came into a struggling and relegation battling Stuttgart side and immediately established himself as a starter and one of the very few who still managed to consistently show solid to good performances, only droppping off at the tailgate of the season and in the relegation playoffs.

It's a little bit of a gamble and I wouldn't want to see such a young and promising guy run into the ground by either carrying the weight of having to fix Arsenal's defence or wasting away on the bench. That's why I think another season BL might be the best option, similar to what Bayern did with Gnabry.

I'm also not one of those who think this summer definitely needs a massive investment at CB. Holding did a great job and his injury was unfortunate. Mavropanos seems very talented but is just exactly what happens when you consistently put these young guys on the bench.
I was an advocate of selling Chambers, especially as his season with Fulham will have salvaged his value, but I think Sokratis, Holding, Chambers, Koscielny and one of Mavropanos/Bielik can be a solid enough backline centrepiece with better coaching, and Mustafi is obviously the one who needs to go the most.
At the same time, with Ramsey gone, Elneny hopefully out the door finally, Guendouzi obviously being too raw, and big questions marks over Xhaka there's a glaring need for a central midfielder; everyone knows about the problems on the wings - offensively and defensively -, and I think these positions - RB backup, LB, CM, wingers - especially in context of this season's abysmal offensive play, are the much more pressing issues to where funds should be directed. I don't see any upside in e.g. selling Chambers but then wasting money on someone absolutely underwhelming like Djene Dakonam.
The trick in getting this team back on track isn't stockpiling defenders or replacing all our CBs in one window (bar Mustafi), but in getting them back to play football in turn posing a bigger threat to opposition again and finally getting collective defending right. Imo a Van Dijk like signing - e.g. splashing most of the tranfer budget on a highly rated CB - won't solve Arsenal's core defensive problems, and the comparison is imo skewed. Virgil was the individual top quality icing on top of a working collective defensive system. Something like that is imo not what's needed at Arsenal right now. I don't think in this current situation a top top CB will massively improve the backline or kind of seal it, like Virgil did at Liverpool. Get the collective right, then add more individual quality to it where needed.

With Kabak the interesting prospect is that you snatch up a 40m rated youngster for 15m - a good portion less of what e.g. Saliba would cost -, loan him out and let him develop with a lot of game time another season and then in 20/21 you're joined by a 60m rated top young CB - who you got for a measly 15m. It's a long term freeing up of transfer funds and basically saves you around 25m this season and 60m next. I mean this season whoever comes in at CB like Dakonam, Saliba, Kabak whoever, they're either underwhelming or won't be instant help. So why not invest clever in the future and work with what you've got this season, e.g. Chambers?

I'd want us to go all in for two cbs tbh. Maybe this guy and Saliba/Andersen.

 

[Toby]

I'd want us to go all in for two cbs tbh. Maybe this guy and Saliba/Andersen.

If Praet and Andersen are 50m together, Andersen is surely the better option.

Kabak should be a no brainer because of his clause. A 40m rated young CB talent for 15m....

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

If Praet and Andersen are 50m together, Andersen is surely the better option.

Kabak should be a no brainer because of his clause. A 40m rated young CB talent for 15m....

we need to sign both Kebak and Anderson if we are serious to rebuild the defense.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

we need to sign both Kebak and Anderson if we are serious to rebuild the defense.

Everyone on this forum knows that your condition turns to false, so you know your answer as to whever we'll do it or not.

What are the betting odds of Mustafi playing at least 20-25 games next season again?
When Arsenal dont bring me joy on the field no more, I could at least make money with them like good old Kroenke

 

[Toby]

What are the betting odds of Mustafi playing at least 20-25 games next season again?

They're ****ing high. Anything I've heard re: Mustafi was and is that Arsenal has been trying to move him for at least 2 seasons now, but he doesn't really want to leave and absolutely no one wants to pay anything for him.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

From videos he looks okayish. Physical, aggressive, determined but its difficult to say if he could make such a huge step up.

I'd rather we go all in for Saliba and find a technical but aggressive ball playing CB this summer or next.

 

[krackpot]

Another Turk to warm the cockles of @Jury

 

[Toby]

I'd rather we go all in for Saliba and find a technical but aggressive ball playing CB this summer or next.

You have the same question marks over Saliba re: can he make the step, but the frenchie is going to be much more expensive.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

You have the same question marks over Saliba re: can he make the step, but the frenchie is going to be much more expensive.

He definitely seems the one most likely to make it though. If you pay 13m for Kabak and it doesn't work out then thats a total waste. Saliba looks more like the real deal.

 

[Toby]

Saliba looks more like the real deal.

What's the difference, have you seen him often? Is his passing Boateng level, or is his awareness/positioning better? Genuinely asking.

Kabak is a pretty big and right on the nose talent if you ask me, there's not much risk in buying him. You also got to remember in what kind of team Ozan played and performed this last half season.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

What's the difference, have you seen him often? Is his passing Boateng level, or is his awareness/positioning better? Genuinely asking.

Kabak is a pretty big and right on the nose talent if you ask me, there's not much risk in buying him. You also got to remember in what kind of team Ozan played and performed this last half season.

No, just a youtube clip. His passing isn't good but something he could work on and he seems technically strong. Boateng wasn't really a pass master before Pep so as he has a good technical base its possible he could improve a great deal in that respect. But otherwise he seems really strong, calm and confident. Seems to have good recovery speed retreating back to position. Uses his body very well. He doesn't seem to be any discomfort with his size and physical structure in his movements.

Kabak seems alrite but nothing to suggest he's going to be able to hack it in the PL for a top 6 club right away. He is a good 1v1 defender and very determined though. His attitude seems to be very endearing. I'm not against buying him but I'd prefer we go for Saliba if it meant one or the other. And if we go for two CBs I'd rather have Saliba and someone like Kabak but with much better ball playing ability.

 

[Toby]

No, just a youtube clip. His passing isn't good but something he could work on and he seems technically strong. Boateng wasn't really a pass master before Pep so as he has a good technical base its possible he could improve a great deal in that respect. But otherwise he seems really strong, calm and confident. Seems to have good recovery speed retreating back to position. Uses his body very well. He doesn't seem to be any discomfort with his size and physical structure in his movements.

Kabak seems alrite but nothing to suggest he's going to be able to hack it in the PL for a top 6 club right away. He is a good 1v1 defender and very determined though. His attitude seems to be very endearing. I'm not against buying him but I'd prefer we go for Saliba if it meant one or the other. And if we go for two CBs I'd rather have Saliba and someone like Kabak but with much better ball playing ability.

Don't be disappointed but I'm not going to put too much into your evalaution of Saliba based on a youtube video.

Going by your description, though, he seems just like Kabak, so I don't really get how you're so sure Saliba will definitely be an instant upgrade while Kabak will not. If there's anything to go by your online scouting, it's that Kabak is the better option as they seem alike but he's way cheaper.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

Don't be disappointed but I'm not going to put too much into your evalaution of Saliba based on a youtube video.

Going by your description, though, he seems just like Kabak, so I don't really get how you're so sure Saliba will definitely be an instant upgrade while Kabak will not. If there's anything to go by your online scouting, it's that Kabak is the better option as they seem alike but he's way cheaper.

Not at all. Kabak looks more uncomfortable and you can tell right away the difference between someone developing in the French set up to someone from Turkey. You can't really describe every element you notice that triggers your imagination or at least I can't I guess.

 

[Toby]

Not at all. Kabak looks more uncomfortable and you can tell right away the difference between someone developing in the French set up to someone from Turkey. You can't really describe every element you notice that triggers your imagination or at least I can't I guess.

Well he did play in a team that ended up getting relegated and nothing resembling any sort of defensive security or scructure until the last 4, 5 games of the season. Of course you're going to look a bit uncomfortable, but having seen all of his games and a good portion in the actual flesh, the boy has done really well under such circumstances and would've been probably even more solid in a settled defence.

And don't think I'm overhyping him because he plays for VfB. That central defense is actually EL level. The problem was that almost everyone else was 2. Bundesliga level.