PL: Arsenal v Manchester City | August 12th, 2018 16:00 BST | Sky Sports

[razörist]

Good point. But the answer in strict terms has to be "no". Love is a construct. And ignoring the power of suggestion which can create physical sensations fact is something tangible will affect you in a way that something virtual cannot.

Seriously though, you mean to say when you get a couple of trolls spewing rubbish at you it hurts you as if you were glassed down the pub?

You're making it too theoretical my friend. Listen to this: What does physical sensation translate to? A tagible rain drop touches your skin, which gives a signal to your brain and registers it and simultaneously you make up your mind about how you feel about that raindrop. That's tangible. But something that is not tangible can create a feeling just as much, as my example of love shows you. Its still real.

And to your example of trolls online vs people glassing you offline, what if both hurt me to different degrees? That makes it real right there. Because it can, and does happen!

 

[Mo Britain]

You're making it too theoretical my friend. Listen to this: What does physical sensation translate to? A tagible rain drop touches your skin, which gives a signal to your brain and registers it and simultaneously you make up your mind about how you feel about that raindrop. That's tangible. But something that is not tangible can create a feeling just as much, as my example of love shows you. Its still real.

And to your example of trolls online vs people glassing you offline, what if both hurt me to different degrees? That makes it real right there. Because it can, and does happen!

Ok. This is way away from Arsenal v Man City. I'll just offer one final point. There is objectivity and there is subjectivity, everyone who is hit by a bottle on the head will hurt. Not everyone wo is made fun of, insulted etc will hurt. That makes it subjective and a different order of reality.

 

[razörist]

Ok. This is way away from Arsenal v Man City. I'll just offer one final point. There is objectivity and there is subjectivity, everyone who is hit by a bottle on the head will hurt. Not everyone wo is made fun of, insulted etc will hurt. That makes it subjective and a different order of reality.

Hey different order of reality is a long way from everything online is unequivocally not real, I'll take it! Good discussion, back to Arsenal City now.

 

[Makingtrax]

You're making it too theoretical my friend. Listen to this: What does physical sensation translate to? A tagible rain drop touches your skin, which gives a signal to your brain and registers it and simultaneously you make up your mind about how you feel about that raindrop. That's tangible. But something that is not tangible can create a feeling just as much, as my example of love shows you. Its still real.

And to your example of trolls online vs people glassing you offline, what if both hurt me to different degrees? That makes it real right there. Because it can, and does happen!

WTF! So this what you prefer to talk, raindrops on your skin, love and feelings, instead of the role of money in football. Can see why you get upset now.

Maybe you should consider mumsnet . . just saying, I’m not judging

 

[razörist]

Let's not forget Oliver delivered an atrocious performance once again. Way too soft on some very dangerous City tackles, everything we did was a foul, even normal shoulder to shoulder fights for the ball. At least one clear penalty not given. Saw yesterday that VAR is fully implemented in the Eredivisie, why can't we have it in the PL?

 

[razörist]

WTF! So this what you prefer to talk, raindrops on your skin, love and feelings, instead of the role of money in football. Can see why you get upset now.

Maybe you should consider mumsnet . . just saying, I’m not judging

Piss off....

 

[Makingtrax]

Piss off....

What happened to love, feelings and being hurt online

 

[razörist]

What happened to love, feelings and being hurt online

That was a theoretical argument, I don't necessarily have to believe in it myself to discuss it.

 

[Giroud12]

Let's not forget Oliver delivered an atrocious performance once again. Way too soft on some very dangerous City tackles, everything we did was a foul, even normal shoulder to shoulder fights for the ball. At least one clear penalty not given. Saw yesterday that VAR is fully implemented in the Eredivisie, why can't we have it in the PL?

Because the FA is run by dinosaurs, and the big clubs (City, Utd etc) know they have everything to lose as they tend to get the decisions in their favor. However, they can only fight the future for so long, in 2 years max its implemented in every major league.

What worries me a bit about the performance yesterday is that its a continouation from last season and the 10+ points we lost due to awful refs. That being said, I think City would have won regardless. Hopefully its a one off, but I do fear that something might happen also at Chelsea. Top 4 is going to be close and you need to get those clear cut pens called. The one positive is that we now have guys like Sokratis and Lichsteiner who might be a bit more intimidating than Bellerin and Welbeck, which might help put pressure on the ref.

Its very sad that something like that is necessary, though. Its gonna be lovely to have VAR sort that stuff out.

 

[Gooner Zig]

The state of this thread

 

[Gegen Pressing]

straight judgement, not waiting for May , Emery's Setup is shaky already.

Aubamayang alone? Lacazette on bench? xhaka instead Ferreira...

I am still rusty, but that wasn't the smartest setup

 

[rich 1990]

Sorry, I'm not tolerating another year of squad cost, I will explode.

 

[Ceballinhos]

The good thing about changing our coach is that some players are going to get exposed.

I was sick of this non sense "Wenger doesn't know how to use his squad".

Everybody will soon realize that some of our players are not that good.
And Wenger's fault was to be to nice and patient with some of them.

 

[say yes]

Why @say yes, enlighten me?

There’s so much wrong with what you’re saying that I wouldn’t even know where to start buddy.

Not really the right place for that kind of chat anyway. Would suggest you watch black mirror though- entertaining and informative

 

[gunner4lyfe]

The overreacting in here after just one game. Lol. The same people praising Pep and Klopp conveniently forget that they needed time for their teams to click. Chill out ffs.

 

[yybecause]

our biggest problem yesterday was nervousness. by far out biggest problem. you could sense 50,000 supporters being nervous, as soon as we make a good action everyone was jumping like ‘this is it this is it!’, and then we mess something up: ‘same old ah!t, Wenger out’.
players were the same. they looked to be stuck in between those two worlds; should we really go for it cause we have it; or should we sit back and concentrate on not messing up.
usually what happens then is players being on different wavelengths, not reading eachother ideas, Lacazette not realizing he is well onside, late thru balls, Özil picking passes that he usually makes 2 secs earlier...there was so many miss understandings I couldnt write them all, but postive is; there’s one reason why it happened, that laser sharp nervousness. we should be able to get it out of our system quickly so I am not worried there.

on top of that I didn't like how we set up, even though I had no doubts for days that its going to be those 11

when playing City its crucial to have some energy and pace on the wings to deal with their non stop spreading of the play to the wide areas.
Who did we have there; Özil and Micki.
its not just about tracking back, but even more so about letting Mahrez and Sterling know they’ll have to work their butts off to get past their markers, instead of having guys marking them who’re either late ir will just stand back knowing they dont have the explosiveness to deal with them.
we constantly put ourselves under pressure cause of that.

sometimes you can neglect it by having 2 energetic DM’s but we didn't have that either. we played with Xhaka who’s not even fit to play yet, and Matteo who should have started but it was to be expected he’ll struggle at times. our whole game was based on him taking care of 4 experienced mids in front of him, while it should have been other way around.

Ramsey was a weird sub. he wasn't great, but nobody was. I was 100% sure Xhaka would go off (he even just got a yellow before that). thought it had to be something behind that, couldn’t be just a tactical change.

Kudos to Chech for what he saved, but he invited for the constant pressure with this terrible ball playing and positioning while doing it.

surprisingly it was our back 4 who did better then the rest. think Papa did well on the occasion, and so did Stephan. Bellerin had no help basically but managed to have a decent game.
Apart from one roller coaster even Mustafi looked ok (far from perfect), and got us a penalty that of course we weren’t given.

all in all, nothing unexpected happened, but looking at all the little details we need to fix, the timing of the game, opposite team, this and that, I think there’s not too much worries.
more then few of those stuff can, should and probably will be fixed as soon as next weekend

hopefully Niles is ok, he’ll have a huge season (should play rm/lm a lot this season). Iwobi too

 

[davidgolfer]

All I can say is for once a coach made the subs I saw needed to be made. Early in the second half I was asking for ramsey and xhaka to be taken off. In the past I would see a player having a bad game and wenger would pull a completely different player. Personally thought xhaka was useless yesterday. The second goal in my opinion was his fault. He was in that area before the pass was made and drifted into a empty area instead of picking up a man. Just my opinion.

 

[Tourboh]

Just the half a billion since he took over. Not sure how that can be so lightly dismissed. Rijkaard laid the foundations for that Barca side, and he took over a Bayern team that just won the treble under Heynckes.

I don't think anyone is saying he's not an excellent coach, but when you look at the infrastructure he's walked into everywhere he's been vs someone like, say Jardim, to quote Arséne "let's not go overboard".

I was responding to a post suggesting he was far from an excellent coach. So yes, someone was saying he wasn’t an excellent coach.

Top coaches coach top teams. Had he not been so successful at Barcelona I doubt he would be in a position to get the jobs he’s been offered or to demand the type of spending that got him the players he has. The best teams are the teams with the best coaches and the best players, and the best players are usually the most expensive players. That’s the reality we find ourselves in. There are some coaches that achieve some success in less wealthy teams and they should be applauded, but I doubt he could have won the premiership by 19 points coaching Everton with the players they have. Had he not delivered then you man have a point. Even Klopp realizes now what it takes to compete at the top and do it consistently. Arsenal, hopefully in the next season or two with some success will be in a position where you will Have to spend heavy to get to that next level. It is what it is.

However when coaches spend large amounts of don’t deliver, or when they expect to be spending huge sums of money every transfer window, it could become unsustainable. And I think that’s why Mourinho got some push-back from his bosses.

In a few seasons, hopefully sooner, Emery should have you spending heavy too... I’d love to hear what you have to say then

 

[Makingtrax]

Sorry, I'm not tolerating another year of squad cost, I will explode.

Can’t think of a better reason to continue.

 

[Tourboh]

Barca were trophyless for 6 seasons until 2004/5 when they won back to back league titles and the CL for only the 2nd time in their history under Rijkaard.

Ofcourse Guardiola made some adjustments when their performances dropped but he was allowed to and nobody can tell me that he didn't walk into a side that wasn't now mentally equipped to dominate.

He made a huge mistake getting rid of Eto'o for Ibra but it didn't matter because the rest of his team was maturing at the right time. Keita, Villa, Pique and Alves I'll give him credit for but there was also Chygrinski, Adriano, Hleb, etc. Yaya could've easily stayed alongside Busquets.

I'm not discrediting Pep's overall quality, just stating that he has been afforded a luxury that most managers don't have which the starting point at a club backed with disproportionate resources and a conversation about where he ranks in the list of greatest ever managers must take that into consideration.

Guardiola changed the team to a very large extent. You mention those four players... what about Pedro and busquets? That’s six players and people are here claiming he inherited something? Xavi, iniesta, Messi, Puyol, and Eto’o. That’s what Guardiola “inherited” and unless you want managers to coach player-less teams I’m not sure what exactly you’re getting at. I’m not even sure what you mean by “mentally equipped to dominate”. What does that mean? please and tell me what that mental “equipment and infrastructure” brought in the two trophyless seasons before his arrival

Yaya chose to leave because he wanted to be a guaranteed starter and Pep couldn’t guarantee that. End of.

I think Pep has been unable to deliver in the champions league outside of Barcelona. His teams have had great performances but have often lost by not being pragmatic and getting schooled by more experienced and more tactically flexible coaches. It’s a knockout competition and he needs to realize that there’s really no room for error. That’s where I think he comes a bit short. But looking at his career as a whole and the quality of football his sides play I think it’s disingenuous to suggest he’s anything but an excellent manager. One of the best ever in my opinion.

Who are the greatest managers? Let’s see what their records are in the first 10 years of their careers and let’s find some objective way to compare?