Mark
Established Member
It's a mixture of both of those. Wenger's weakness is certainly tactics. He should know what to expect from the mancs now, and instead of complaining about it after the match, he should outsmart them during the match.
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PL: Manchester United vs Arsenal | 24/10/04
- Thread starter JazzG
- Start date
- Replies 639
- Views 17,373
AFCG7
Established Member
Bring Parlour and Keown back and let them kick lumps out of the UNited players.
If only.
If only.
Mbaki Mutahaba
Established Member
Mark said:
You can't outsmart a thug/cheat. They will always take you to their low evel and beat you through experience. Evaluating tactics simply from the results doesn't do justice to any coach. Lets look at the entire game. Our approach was working..we had them contained and were not troubled at all.
Florida Gooner
Active Member
The headline at Fox Sports World reads: Gunners Robbed
Here's their head EPL columnist's view:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3107992
For anyone who cares, the match replay can be seen on FSW in the US on Wednesday at 8PM Eastern. I'm not sure I can bear to watch it.
Here's their head EPL columnist's view:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3107992
For anyone who cares, the match replay can be seen on FSW in the US on Wednesday at 8PM Eastern. I'm not sure I can bear to watch it.
Biggus
Established Member
Well its a good learning curve for young Goonerlings who maybe can't understand why theres enmity between us and them...I hope they will not be put off by it but ease into a lifetime physcopathic hatred of ManU
A
Anonymous
Guest
The 2nd goal came about from a horrible pass by one of our defenders and then another one of our players failing to tackle that player when really they should. Cant name names because i cant remember which players were involved.
KingReyes
Established Member
Second goal was likely to happen Guv, we were in a point where we had to rush to get the ball forward and we opened up at the back. A complete difference to when we were 0-0 and in total control before Fat Rooney nominated himself for an Oscar.
Sammer
Established Member
Mbaki Mutahaba said:
Well said. We don´t have to change anything - we were in control of the game - we had about 70% possession just before Riley decided to award them the penalty. No complains really in terms of our performance.
The Premier
Active Member
This is from the Independent this morning. Quintessential view of the game, IMO:
The whining of Arsenal is not a surprise - heaven knows, they have a track record - but it is no less disappointing for that. It crushes the idea that along with the brilliance that went into the run of 49 unbeaten Premiership games there was genuine growth, not just as accomplished footballers but wholly formed men of the world.
Men, that is, who know that some days they are going to get an inadequate referee, and that when you lash out at the sins of your opponents it is always as well to remember your own crimes.
We had none of that at Old Trafford on Sunday; no grace, no manly shrugs of the shoulders that would have represented acceptance of the old truth that defeat is the impostor always waiting in ambush for the greatest of teams. What we had was a gorging banquet of self-pity. We had Arsène Wenger, the brilliantly innovative, endlessly sophisticated coach who had done so well to keep his head from being washed away by oceans of praise, lashing out that his team had been cheated.
It was the old Wenger casting the first stone, talking about cheating as though his own Robert Pires had not defined the dark art last season when he so disgracefully connived a penalty against Portsmouth, an outrage which preserved an unbeaten record that would eventually be so celebrated by every genuine football lover in the land. Who forgets that at the time Pires's offence provoked from Wenger not a murmur of displeasure, still less shame?
There is no doubt that the referee Mike Riley put in a quite appalling performance on Sunday. He should have given Rio Ferdinand a red card in the first half for his blatant, last-man foul on Freddie Ljungberg, he was inexcusably complacent when both Gary Neville and Ashley Cole tackled unscrupulously beyond the law in the early going, and he missed the brutal fouling of Cole by Ruud van Nistelrooy.
However, when he signalled a penalty after Sol Campbell had stuck out his left leg in panic when Wayne Rooney whirled on him in the penalty area, it was surely the least of his sins. Even after several television re-runs, some of the most experienced football men in the land were unconvinced that Riley was in error.
Campbell was, of course, outraged to the point of later rejecting the proffered handshake of his young England team-mate; he was no less indignant, indeed, than when he insisted that he had not elbowed United's Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 18 months ago.
No matter that the television evidence was emphatic, Campbell insisted that not only was he was innocent, he was victim of an FA conspiracy. There was some reason to hope that such paranoia had been put on one side after last season's rancid behaviour at Old Trafford, when Wenger and his players were finally obliged, by their own boardroom, to face up to the consequences of their lack of discipline. FA punishment, as Sir Alex Ferguson raged, was mild indeed, but it did come after the Highbury board had gone public with its belief that a line had to be drawn.
This appeared to have happened as Arsenal blossomed on the field in direct proportion to the improvement in their discipline. As Arsenal fused into new levels of unity on the field, there was a distinct sense of growing maturity off it. Not only did Cole improve as a player, there was a dwindling expectation that he would produce some gut-churning piece of gamesmanship after receiving a tackle. He admitted publicly to some of his own excesses.
For a little while it seemed likely that Arsenal had indeed moved on to new level, that the legacy of Martin Keown, the arch culprit in last season's tawdry mob scene was at an end. No one, for example, would ever again fake injury as outrageously as he did when provoking the dismissal of Lazio's Francesco Totti in a European game just a month before the Campbell-Solskjaer incident. This, everyone at Highbury should appreciate, is not ancient history. It is part of the culture of the club that, before Sunday regression, we had been encouraged to believe had been expunged, as it was to a large degree at Old Trafford when Ferguson finally saw that it was damaging the progress of his team.
There is no doubt Arsenal had grievances at Old Trafford. But enough to justify the on-field squabbling, the pointed fingers, the overweening reproach and a suggestion that Ferguson had soup thrown over his shirt by an Arsenal player? Given their own failings, you wouldn't have thought so.
Patrick Vieira was aghast when he was booked. It was no doubt an affront to his attempts to referee the game, but it was surely consistent with some of the savagery of his own tackling.
The truth was that Arsenal came for a draw, which, given the level of some of their previous performances this season, admittedly against lesser opposition, was something of a failure of nerve. Maybe it was this that most gnawed at Arsenal in the bitter aftermath of their lost record. There was too the additional aggravation that since their emergence as England's unbeatable team and, in the belief of some dubious historians, the greatest club side in the history of the national game, their League and Cup record against their most bitter rivals was the desperate one of played four, won none, drawn two, lost two.
This was by no means a pathway to unique glory, and nor was Sunday's performance. United doubtlessly benefited from incompetent refereeing. But they were also helped by their superior will. This was the prime fuel for behaviour from Arsenal unworthy of aspiring football legends.
26 October 2004 08:30
Is there as problem with this post, mods? Let me know.
The whining of Arsenal is not a surprise - heaven knows, they have a track record - but it is no less disappointing for that. It crushes the idea that along with the brilliance that went into the run of 49 unbeaten Premiership games there was genuine growth, not just as accomplished footballers but wholly formed men of the world.
Men, that is, who know that some days they are going to get an inadequate referee, and that when you lash out at the sins of your opponents it is always as well to remember your own crimes.
We had none of that at Old Trafford on Sunday; no grace, no manly shrugs of the shoulders that would have represented acceptance of the old truth that defeat is the impostor always waiting in ambush for the greatest of teams. What we had was a gorging banquet of self-pity. We had Arsène Wenger, the brilliantly innovative, endlessly sophisticated coach who had done so well to keep his head from being washed away by oceans of praise, lashing out that his team had been cheated.
It was the old Wenger casting the first stone, talking about cheating as though his own Robert Pires had not defined the dark art last season when he so disgracefully connived a penalty against Portsmouth, an outrage which preserved an unbeaten record that would eventually be so celebrated by every genuine football lover in the land. Who forgets that at the time Pires's offence provoked from Wenger not a murmur of displeasure, still less shame?
There is no doubt that the referee Mike Riley put in a quite appalling performance on Sunday. He should have given Rio Ferdinand a red card in the first half for his blatant, last-man foul on Freddie Ljungberg, he was inexcusably complacent when both Gary Neville and Ashley Cole tackled unscrupulously beyond the law in the early going, and he missed the brutal fouling of Cole by Ruud van Nistelrooy.
However, when he signalled a penalty after Sol Campbell had stuck out his left leg in panic when Wayne Rooney whirled on him in the penalty area, it was surely the least of his sins. Even after several television re-runs, some of the most experienced football men in the land were unconvinced that Riley was in error.
Campbell was, of course, outraged to the point of later rejecting the proffered handshake of his young England team-mate; he was no less indignant, indeed, than when he insisted that he had not elbowed United's Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 18 months ago.
No matter that the television evidence was emphatic, Campbell insisted that not only was he was innocent, he was victim of an FA conspiracy. There was some reason to hope that such paranoia had been put on one side after last season's rancid behaviour at Old Trafford, when Wenger and his players were finally obliged, by their own boardroom, to face up to the consequences of their lack of discipline. FA punishment, as Sir Alex Ferguson raged, was mild indeed, but it did come after the Highbury board had gone public with its belief that a line had to be drawn.
This appeared to have happened as Arsenal blossomed on the field in direct proportion to the improvement in their discipline. As Arsenal fused into new levels of unity on the field, there was a distinct sense of growing maturity off it. Not only did Cole improve as a player, there was a dwindling expectation that he would produce some gut-churning piece of gamesmanship after receiving a tackle. He admitted publicly to some of his own excesses.
For a little while it seemed likely that Arsenal had indeed moved on to new level, that the legacy of Martin Keown, the arch culprit in last season's tawdry mob scene was at an end. No one, for example, would ever again fake injury as outrageously as he did when provoking the dismissal of Lazio's Francesco Totti in a European game just a month before the Campbell-Solskjaer incident. This, everyone at Highbury should appreciate, is not ancient history. It is part of the culture of the club that, before Sunday regression, we had been encouraged to believe had been expunged, as it was to a large degree at Old Trafford when Ferguson finally saw that it was damaging the progress of his team.
There is no doubt Arsenal had grievances at Old Trafford. But enough to justify the on-field squabbling, the pointed fingers, the overweening reproach and a suggestion that Ferguson had soup thrown over his shirt by an Arsenal player? Given their own failings, you wouldn't have thought so.
Patrick Vieira was aghast when he was booked. It was no doubt an affront to his attempts to referee the game, but it was surely consistent with some of the savagery of his own tackling.
The truth was that Arsenal came for a draw, which, given the level of some of their previous performances this season, admittedly against lesser opposition, was something of a failure of nerve. Maybe it was this that most gnawed at Arsenal in the bitter aftermath of their lost record. There was too the additional aggravation that since their emergence as England's unbeatable team and, in the belief of some dubious historians, the greatest club side in the history of the national game, their League and Cup record against their most bitter rivals was the desperate one of played four, won none, drawn two, lost two.
This was by no means a pathway to unique glory, and nor was Sunday's performance. United doubtlessly benefited from incompetent refereeing. But they were also helped by their superior will. This was the prime fuel for behaviour from Arsenal unworthy of aspiring football legends.
26 October 2004 08:30
Is there as problem with this post, mods? Let me know.
Evil Dragon
Active Member
Dear Arsenal supporter,
It was disappointing to lose on Sunday but I have to congratulate my players. They came out of this with a fantastic record of 49 Premiership games without defeat and showed they are a great side.
But they have a deep feeling of injustice. They are really frustrated. However you can only master your performance and that was alright at Old Trafford. I am convinced what happened during the game will make us stronger and more determined.
In my opinion, the turning point was the penalty. If you look at the possession they had in the second half and the chances they had in both halves, we were the better team. And at that point it looked more like we were going to win the game than Manchester United.
We had dangerous situations more than chances. With time going on I felt it was a good situation for us to be 0-0. They had to play with the idea that only a draw was not good enough for them. That would mean the game was much more open.
The penalty turned the game in United's favour and they are now eight points behind us in the championship. I don't know if the gap is sufficient or not but I believe we are a great side. And I want to start a new unbeaten run next week.
Thanks for your support.
It was disappointing to lose on Sunday but I have to congratulate my players. They came out of this with a fantastic record of 49 Premiership games without defeat and showed they are a great side.
But they have a deep feeling of injustice. They are really frustrated. However you can only master your performance and that was alright at Old Trafford. I am convinced what happened during the game will make us stronger and more determined.
In my opinion, the turning point was the penalty. If you look at the possession they had in the second half and the chances they had in both halves, we were the better team. And at that point it looked more like we were going to win the game than Manchester United.
We had dangerous situations more than chances. With time going on I felt it was a good situation for us to be 0-0. They had to play with the idea that only a draw was not good enough for them. That would mean the game was much more open.
The penalty turned the game in United's favour and they are now eight points behind us in the championship. I don't know if the gap is sufficient or not but I believe we are a great side. And I want to start a new unbeaten run next week.
Thanks for your support.
goonerlove
Active Member
I think the Fox commentator has it about right. Arsenal were marginally the better team but the penalty changed everything and ended up awarding the game to ManUre.
And it is a shame that a game of that magnitude should be decided by a terrible call... not even any contact between Campbell and Rooney... none whatsoever.... hopefully karma will catch up with young Mr. Rooney and he will slip back into his goalless form in the EPL.
Goonerlove
And it is a shame that a game of that magnitude should be decided by a terrible call... not even any contact between Campbell and Rooney... none whatsoever.... hopefully karma will catch up with young Mr. Rooney and he will slip back into his goalless form in the EPL.
Goonerlove
Evil Dragon
Active Member
Oh btw that post was Arsène's email thoughts
Evil Dragon
Active Member
singooner said:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Bumped into a united supporter at a pub yesterday, his mate first stopped me because i was wearing our yellow away shirt. His mate wasnt a united fan but said to me 'dont go near (whatever his name was) cos he is a die hard manc fan'. well i bumped into this idiot manc 2 minutes later who proceeded with the wind ups "49 and out i see", i replyed with "i would say getting to 49 was a great achievement in the first place", the idiot comes back with "yeh but its good to see you lost to a better team at a great stadium". Well somehow i kept my cool, and just walked away, that fella was lucky i wasnt in the mood. Gobby mancs, god i hate them all.
kanuuu
Established Member
Was he a cockney Red?
Guns and Arses
Active Member
Injustice will make us stronger. We, who're cheated and robbed, demand justice. Manure fans are being cocky and saying that they're winning the league. To manure fanatics: I don't like to say this but I have to - Go fahk yourself
Gurgen
Established Member
theguvnor said:
Guv, Exiled must be proud of you
omega man
Member
It was obvious we were robbed of at least a point. 2 red cards
for RF and RVN would have surely made a difference and if riley
had the balls to make the right call on the penalty we would have got
that point. I really was very dissapointed on the day not
to see cesc play but looking back at the game i think he would
have joined Reyes on the walking wounded list. Man u won the only
way they could against a better team and Riley approved of their
tactics and even rewarded them with a typical old trafford home
team decision. I was very proud of the team after the final whistle
and after days of anger i believe we will come out even stronger.
The only down side is that man u are becoming our bogie team, was
our last PL win against them in 2002??
for RF and RVN would have surely made a difference and if riley
had the balls to make the right call on the penalty we would have got
that point. I really was very dissapointed on the day not
to see cesc play but looking back at the game i think he would
have joined Reyes on the walking wounded list. Man u won the only
way they could against a better team and Riley approved of their
tactics and even rewarded them with a typical old trafford home
team decision. I was very proud of the team after the final whistle
and after days of anger i believe we will come out even stronger.
The only down side is that man u are becoming our bogie team, was
our last PL win against them in 2002??
