Player Ratings - PL: Wigan Athletic vs Arsenal | 13/12/06

[YuenBiaoFan]

Gallas is not quite a 'key' player for us yet I think; they don't suffer too much when he's out.

The very fact that Flamini's a squad player AND has popped up scoring two BIG goals for Arsenal would suggest that he is capable of playing a key role in a key game on that day.

EVERY player in the first team squad should be capable of stepping up and they mostly are.

But not every single of them is capable of grabbing a game by the bollocks, in fact I would argue that only one of them has that. Shouldn't detract from the key roles that the aformentioned do play though.

 

[asajoseph]

Gallas is not quite a 'key' player for us yet I think; they don't suffer too much when he's out.

For me, he's on a par with Toure in this regard - we're just lucky that we're blessed with several good CB's at the moment.

The very fact that Flamini's a squad player AND has popped up scoring two BIG goals for Arsenal would suggest that he is capable of playing a key role in a key game on that day.

This is true, of course, yet as I've said before I'm still not quite convinced.

I hate to follow the trend of comparing the guy to Edu, but the brazilian was a player who, though not usually a first choice, seemed to score a lot of important goals for us.

Now, if Flamini continues to pop up and get goals for us in big games (and by that I don't just mean games against big teams), then I'll fully conceed the point. But, right now, I still feel that Liverpool, Dinamo (don't forget that one!) and Chelsea are more the aberration than the rule - but we'll see.

I'm a little surprised though that you see what I say to be so controversial - I was under the impression that the consensus (that I would agree with) was that however highly you value his willingness to run and scrap, he possesses no particular skill that marks him out as a world-class player. In an attacking sense he is not skilled enough to be a matchwinner, nor is he, often (though again, he did it against the Chavs) a matchsaver in my view. He is, rather, an adequate squad player - but the problem is, when you start to fill your team with adequate squad players, your team becomes merely 'adequate', and this is why, whilst I have no problem using Flamini in the right situation, he simply isn't a guy we want to be putting on the teamsheet every week.

 

[Biggus]

Now, if Flamini continues to pop up and get goals for us in big games (and by that I don't just mean games against big teams), then I'll fully conceed the point. But, right now, I still feel that Liverpool, Dinamo (don't forget that one!) and Chelsea are more the aberration than the rule - but we'll see.

I'm a little surprised though that you see what I say to be so controversial - I was under the impression that the consensus (that I would agree with) was that however highly you value his willingness to run and scrap, he possesses no particular skill that marks him out as a world-class player. In an attacking sense he is not skilled enough to be a matchwinner, nor is he, often (though again, he did it against the Chavs) a matchsaver in my view. He is, rather, an adequate squad player - but the problem is, when you start to fill your team with adequate squad players, your team becomes merely 'adequate', and this is why, whilst I have no problem using Flamini in the right situation, he simply isn't a guy we want to be putting on the teamsheet every week.

I understand your point ASA but I think that Matty adds that little extra grit and determination that we lack sometimes. He counterbalances the soft centre we have if there are two many "skilled ball players" in the side. Our recent preformances bear this out.

 

[Gurgen]

But our recent performances have been either shocking (Porto and Chelsea) or average (Wigan).

 

[Sammer]

But our recent performances have been either shocking (Porto and Chelsea) or average (Wigan).

I thought the Spuds game was quite convincing - at least from a new perspective: that our players are actually capable of getting stuck in, fighting for every ball and dominating the game by hard-work, and not only when the opponent lets us play.

Other than that, you are right - the amount of mediocre performances is worrying.

 

[Gurgen]

But our recent performances have been either shocking (Porto and Chelsea) or average (Wigan).

I thought the Spuds game was quite convincing - at least from a new perspective: that our players are actually capable of getting stuck in, fighting for every ball and dominating the game by hard-work, and not only when the opponent lets us play.

Yup, but Flamini didn't play against Sp**s, and I think Biggus was trying to make the point that we play better with him in the team. We clearly don't.

 

[YuenBiaoFan]

He's not just 'popping' up and scoring big goals in big goals he's also 'popping' up STOPPING big goals in big games to

He's not a world beater.

He's a squad player but a damned good one to have.

 

[patrick42uk]

i watched the game again before making this reply on freddie. am i bias towards him? if i am it must be subconcious.

his performance for me yesteray was a solid 6. why? because he did nothing wrong. he has always been hardworking, always made himself available for the ball short, always kept possesion well and always got in behind on a few occasions. i felt that was the case yesterday again. the difference between freddie at his peak and freddie now is that when he does get in behind he has lot that extra bit of sharpness that usually makes it count. we all know that freddie has never been a top drawer player and its his goals that endeared him to lot of people.

i feel freddie is perfectly desrving of the status of squad player because he still possesses technical qualities that are rare in this team; such as knowing when to keep the width timing of runs and a penetrative threat from wide. these are things he accumulated from years of experience which wenger is taking advantage of now because the squad as a whole lacks that.

 

[celestis]

i watched the game again before making this reply on freddie. am i bias towards him? if i am it must be subconcious.

his performance for me yesteray was a solid 6. why? because he did nothing wrong. he has always been hardworking, always made himself available for the ball short, always kept possesion well and always got in behind on a few occasions. i felt that was the case yesterday again. the difference between freddie at his peak and freddie now is that when he does get in behind he has lot that extra bit of sharpness that usually makes it count. we all know that freddie has never been a top drawer player and its his goals that endeared him to lot of people.


i feel freddie is perfectly desrving of the status of squad player because he still possesses technical qualities that are rare in this team; such as knowing when to keep the width timing of runs and a penetrative threat from wide. these are things he accumulated from years of experience which wenger is taking advantage of now because the squad as a whole lacks that.

Good thing about Freddie , he never shirks responsibility going forward even when he is knackered. He is the equal of any when it come to timing late runs into the box. We just need a bloke to play him in . Funnily enough, Ade showed he has a little nous in that area playing in Freddie and Bap on different occasions.

As for the Flammster, he does not pass execeptionally well , Fabregas when he came on tackled better but he has the audactiy to try different things, a 'why not have a pop attitude?' and is not afraid to take the responsibility to make runs into the box as well as shoot when he is in position to . Which is more than I can say for quite a few of our boys.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

But our recent performances have been either shocking (Porto and Chelsea) or average (Wigan).

We got a 1-1 draw after having gone ahead against Chelsea in their own turf and the display was "shocking". I guess with a good performance a WIN would have been just a formatility.

 

[Biggus]

But our recent performances have been either shocking (Porto and Chelsea) or average (Wigan).

I thought the Spuds game was quite convincing - at least from a new perspective: that our players are actually capable of getting stuck in, fighting for every ball and dominating the game by hard-work, and not only when the opponent lets us play.

Yup, but Flamini didn't play against Sp**s, and I think Biggus was trying to make the point that we play better with him in the team. We clearly don't.

No Hotshot. I'm not saying we play a better style of football with Flamini in the team....We don't. We are still playing as crap since the West Ham/Fulham defeats Porto/Chel$ki draws (leaving aside the very flattering 3-0 win when the worthless Spuds collapsed) and the Wigan win we've scored 3 in 5 (of which Mat has got 1) so its obvious where the problem lies.
What I am saying is that we are harder to beat with Mat in the team, he adds steel that is lacking. And no- we should not rely on him for goals.....but its worth noting that he has scored as many as the glamorous silky skilled golden boys Hleb and Rosicky put together. :wink:

 

[asajoseph]

Now, if Flamini continues to pop up and get goals for us in big games (and by that I don't just mean games against big teams), then I'll fully conceed the point. But, right now, I still feel that Liverpool, Dinamo (don't forget that one!) and Chelsea are more the aberration than the rule - but we'll see.

I'm a little surprised though that you see what I say to be so controversial - I was under the impression that the consensus (that I would agree with) was that however highly you value his willingness to run and scrap, he possesses no particular skill that marks him out as a world-class player. In an attacking sense he is not skilled enough to be a matchwinner, nor is he, often (though again, he did it against the Chavs) a matchsaver in my view. He is, rather, an adequate squad player - but the problem is, when you start to fill your team with adequate squad players, your team becomes merely 'adequate', and this is why, whilst I have no problem using Flamini in the right situation, he simply isn't a guy we want to be putting on the teamsheet every week.

I understand your point ASA but I think that Matty adds that little extra grit and determination that we lack sometimes. He counterbalances the soft centre we have if there are two many "skilled ball players" in the side. Our recent preformances bear this out.

Take the point, but I'm not really sure either:

a) beyond one or two very badly timed tackles a game, how much Flamini really does this - for all his effort, he's not much of a physical presence

or

b) considering how Gilberto's been playing of late, that our centre is all that 'soft' anyway.

 

[asajoseph]

He's not just 'popping' up and scoring big goals in big goals he's also 'popping' up STOPPING big goals in big games to

He's not a world beater.

He's a squad player but a damned good one to have.

Yup, I think I mentioned that too - however largely I think we're in agreement judging by the rest of that comment...

 

[asajoseph]

i watched the game again before making this reply on freddie. am i bias towards him? if i am it must be subconcious.

his performance for me yesteray was a solid 6. why? because he did nothing wrong. he has always been hardworking, always made himself available for the ball short, always kept possesion well and always got in behind on a few occasions. i felt that was the case yesterday again. the difference between freddie at his peak and freddie now is that when he does get in behind he has lot that extra bit of sharpness that usually makes it count. we all know that freddie has never been a top drawer player and its his goals that endeared him to lot of people.

i feel freddie is perfectly desrving of the status of squad player because he still possesses technical qualities that are rare in this team; such as knowing when to keep the width timing of runs and a penetrative threat from wide. these are things he accumulated from years of experience which wenger is taking advantage of now because the squad as a whole lacks that.

Pat,

Whilst I don't really disagree with anything you wrote (and I've backed Freddie's place in the squad relatively recently too), I was just wondering if you feel he really provides enough going forward?

It's true, he doesn't seem to make 'mistakes', but then does he ever do anything these days that you really think is going to directly lead to us scoring a goal? Take Walcott against Wigan - for all his inconsistency, there were quite a few moments where it looked like he'd provide some kind of spark that would result in us scoring - Freddie, for all his solid play, he seems completely incapable of lending any kind of spark to our game going forwards.

If you look at our midfield against Wigan, how many players did we have who are, even on paper, really capable of doing that?

celestis,

As for the Flammster, he does not pass execeptionally well , Fabregas when he came on tackled better but he has the audactiy to try different things, a 'why not have a pop attitude?' and is not afraid to take the responsibility to make runs into the box as well as shoot when he is in position to . Which is more than I can say for quite a few of our boys.

Whether Flamini's long range shooting is flat out poor, or he's just not had a chance to show us what he can do yet, I cannot help but smile at the fact that he does have a pop, and then tends to look very sheepish when jogging back having blasted the ball high and wide...

Mbaki,

We got a 1-1 draw after having gone ahead against Chelsea in their own turf and the display was "shocking". I guess with a good performance a WIN would have been just a formatility.

Perhaps 'shocking' is a harsh word, considering no small amount of grit went into that performance. But, considering the number of times they hit the woodwork, including from close range, there's no denying that we were perhaps slightly fortunate to gain a point.

Finally, Biggus,

but its worth noting that he has scored as many as the glamorous silky skilled golden boys Hleb and Rosicky put together.

Again, take the broad point, but this is still a misleading statistic - for me, Hleb (so far) and Rosicky (should in future) cause us to score more goals when they're in the side, regardless of who's applying the finishing touch.

 

[patrick42uk]

asa, freddie got in twice against wigan. once he worked the keeper, once he shot across and toure almost got in. there is still that threat for me that he will penetrate which is what his game has always been about.

freddie has never been a spark player IMO, he's always been a higher tier squad player that looks better with big players around him to pick him out. walcott is destined to be world class.

 

[asajoseph]

asa, freddie got in twice against wigan. once he worked the keeper, once he shot across and toure almost got in.

Good point, forgot about that to be honest...

freddie has never been a spark player IMO, he's always been a higher tier squad player that looks better with big players around him to pick him out.

Generally agree, but do you think he really puts himself in the positions to be 'picked out' often enough any more? Does he threaten to score regularly enough to be anything but a peripheral squad player? These days he looks to me like he often tries to do too much - he has a very specific set of skills, but, perhaps because he feels too much responsibility, he tries too often to dribble, or beat his man on the outside/inside when he lacks the pace/strength/skill to do so.

For me, Freddie will only become a valuable player for us again if he begins to stick to what he's good at - as you possibly hinted at when talking in the Adebayor thread, I think the Freddie of old (fast, direct and able to play quick one-touch passes in the danger area) could work well with Ade.

walcott is destined to be world class.

Agree 110%