Thomas Partey

[Furious]

Honestly i'm confused. People are saying he's a top DM

Who had said that? You're hopefully not basing that off people who think black midfielder = DM?

Either that or I am afraid that you're taking these StatsBombs charts too seriously.

Thomas would come here to play as B2B role, and not to be a DM, he's way too talented to play such a limited role.

I was confused to why Kante averages more tackles than Thomas in that chart too.. because when you look on Whoscored they both are on a 2.1 average.

But I found out this black magic ****ery thing called PAdj is the sinner:

Spoiler: PAdj Defensive Stats

PAdj Defensive Stats - Stands for Possession-Adjusted. Essentially, the problem with defensive rate stats is that you can't make a tackle, interception, etc when your team has the ball. Thus teams that have a lot of the ball will have under-represented defensive output compared to a team with low possession. These types of stats attempt to adjust for opportunity, but as of June 30, 2014 are very new and still in development.

Link: https://statsbomb.com/stat-definitions/

So essentially, because Atletico average less possession of the ball StatsBombs' charts "punish" Thomas' tackling and overall defensive(interceptions too) numbers.

This seems like complete bollocks especially when you consider that he plays with Koke, Saul, Llorente and Herrera in midfield, all of whom are prolific tacklers of the ball, so it could easily be a case of sharing the burden.

That is not to say that Thomas is as good a tackler as Kante as the Frenchman is absolutely unreal in this department, especially in his Leicester and Caen days where he was averaging up to 5 tackles per game, which is completely nuts.

However, Thomas is not too shabby either. In the CL for example he is averaging 3.6 tackles in the 8 games he has played. In prior seasons he used to average more as well than his current 2.1 per game, but my guess is with the signings of Llorente and Herrera, he has gotten bit more freedom here.

Lastly, let's not make the mistake of judging players on stats. We have our very own stats manipulator called Mustafi, who's a world champion in tackling/interceptions/heading stats, but as a great man @hydrofluoric acid once said: reality is often disappointing.

 

[dashsnow17]

Who had said that? You're hopefully not basing that off people who think black midfielder = DM?

Either that or I am afraid that you're taking these StatsBombs charts too seriously.

Thomas would come here to play as B2B role, and not to be a DM, he's way too talented to play such a limited role.

I was confused to why Kante averages more tackles than Thomas in that chart too.. because when you look on Whoscored they both are on a 2.1 average.

But I found out this black magic ****ery thing called PAdj is the sinner:

Spoiler: PAdj Defensive Stats

PAdj Defensive Stats - Stands for Possession-Adjusted. Essentially, the problem with defensive rate stats is that you can't make a tackle, interception, etc when your team has the ball. Thus teams that have a lot of the ball will have under-represented defensive output compared to a team with low possession. These types of stats attempt to adjust for opportunity, but as of June 30, 2014 are very new and still in development.

Link: https://statsbomb.com/stat-definitions/

So essentially, because Atletico average less possession of the ball StatsBombs' charts "punish" Thomas' tackling and overall defensive(interceptions too) numbers.

This seems like complete bollocks especially when you consider that he plays with Koke, Saul, Llorente and Herrera in midfield, all of whom are prolific tacklers of the ball, so it could easily be a case of sharing the burden.

That is not to say that Thomas is as good a tackler as Kante as the Frenchman is absolutely unreal in this department, especially in his Leicester and Caen days where he was averaging up to 5 tackles per game, which is completely nuts.

However, Thomas is not too shabby either. In the CL for example he is averaging 3.6 tackles in the 8 games he has played. In prior seasons he used to average more as well than his current 2.1 per game, but my guess is with the signings of Llorente and Herrera, he has gotten bit more freedom here.

Lastly, let's not make the mistake of judging players on stats. We have our very own stats manipulator called Mustafi, who's a world champion in tackling/interceptions/heading stats, but as a great man @hydrofluoric acid once said: reality is often disappointing.

Or off stuff like Transfermarkt and Wikipedia, which classify him as a DM.

I take your point obviously about stats not telling the whole story. But I still worry that a lot of Arsenal fans are telling themselves a story about Partey without having watched him that much. So I'd still like to hear from someone who's actually watched him regularly, cos I'll hold my hands up I only really watched him closely once when Atleti came to the Emirates and did a number on us.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Thomas would come here to play as B2B role, and not to be a DM, he's way too talented to play such a limited role.
.

Weird, id consider the deepest midfielder the most challenging in the game, any weakness for passing and youll be targeted, youre the one who decides the tempo and how the attacks are constructed, youve to have insane awareness of every one around you and be able to cover the ground as well. I think thats why many of the best defensive or deeper midfielders started as attacking midfielders because they needed the technical ability as well as the rest. Keane is a prime example of someone who started as an attacking midfielder turned in to a sort of box to box but was really that blanket in front of the defence, hes not remembered as much for his paassing etc. but he was really good technically and always talks about controlling games and changing tempo etc.

Im hoping Partey comes here to play a deeper midfield role with space for making runs or supporting attacks the odd time. Every thing he has fits what we need for the base of the midfield - if not a defensive midfielder but definitely the deepest lying one. Im betting Arteta who played that role would expect all of that from Partey when he brought him in.

 

[Furious]

Or off stuff like Transfermarkt and Wikipedia, which classify him as a DM.

I take your point obviously about stats not telling the whole story. But I still worry that a lot of Arsenal fans are telling themselves a story about Partey without having watched him that much. So I'd still like to hear from someone who's actually watched him regularly, cos I'll hold my hands up I only really watched him closely once when Atleti came to the Emirates and did a number on us.

I have watched him a couple of times, and once live this season actually. He will address some pressing needs we have, and as the stats even show, he's pretty good on the ball and doesn't treat it like a hot potato like most of our midfielders seem to do; already on that front we'd be better of. He can put in a tackle as well and his passing is pretty good going forward too. He can do most things Torreira can do, and more. I think a midfielder like that would definitely go a long way to take our midfield up a notch.

I'd agree on the fact Arsenal fans on the whole are overrating him a bit. I mean are we even signing this guy? The links are crap to say the least - even the like of John Cross aren't making up stories about it. Guess with Balague now in the picture there is something to it.

 

[OnlyOne]

Gotta feel sorry for guys like @Rex Banter. Very very good poster who watches Atletico every game, gives an incredible brief on why Parety is incredible and his best position yet idiots ignore him. Oh well.

You wouldn't get this on The Shed End.

 

[Furious]

Weird, id consider the deepest midfielder the most challenging in the game, any weakness for passing and youll be targeted, youre the one who decides the tempo and how the attacks are constructed, youve to have insane awareness of every one around you and be able to cover the ground as well. I think thats why many of the best defensive or deeper midfielders started as attacking midfielders because they needed the technical ability as well as the rest. Keane is a prime example of someone who started as an attacking midfielder turned in to a sort of box to box but was really that blanket in front of the defence, hes not remembered as much for his paassing etc. but he was really good technically and always talks about controlling games and changing tempo etc.

Im hoping Partey comes here to play a deeper midfield role with space for making runs or supporting attacks the odd time. Every thing he has fits what we need for the base of the midfield - if not a defensive midfielder but definitely the deepest lying one. Im betting Arteta who played that role would expect all of that from Partey when he brought him in.

There's no way in hell I'd want Thomas to be our deepest lying/defensive midfielder, especially considering he'd be our best midfielder by far, and given that we control most of the games I'd want him to be a B2B, most definitely.

Not to mention the rest of our current crop in midfield are scandalous going forward, so why would you let Thomas stay back to accommodate who going forward, exactly? Torreira, Xhaka, Guendouzi, Ceballos? Nah man, no thanks.

 

[Rex Stone]

Gotta feel sorry for guys like @Rex Banter. Very very good poster who watches Atletico every game, gives an incredible brief on why Parety is incredible and his best position yet idiots ignore him. Oh well.

You wouldn't get this on The Shed End.

When I see Wikipedia and WhoScored getting sourced imma head out

 

[Furious]

When I see Wikipedia and WhoScored getting sourced imma head out

You think WhoScored has manipulated their stats or what is wrong Mr. I Support 15 Teams?

 

[Fewtch]

Im hoping Partey comes here to play a deeper midfield role with space for making runs or supporting attacks the odd time. Every thing he has fits what we need for the base of the midfield - if not a defensive midfielder but definitely the deepest lying one. Im betting Arteta who played that role would expect all of that from Partey when he brought him in.

Honestly I’d be very surprised if this wasn’t the case. Arteta haven’t used any player in a b2b role so far, even when he’s played Willock. Just like Pep, he seem to prefer the 235 shape in attack with the 3 in midfield (1 DM and 2 fullbacks or 2 DMs and a fullback in our case) staying behind and doing the build up. If you look at Partey’s role at ATM then he’s doing just that, staying behind and being part of the build up.

 

[Rex Stone]

You think WhoScored has manipulated their stats or what is wrong Mr. I Support 15 Teams?

No need to get pressed about it.

 

[Furious]

No need to get pressed about it.

Just curious fam. I mean it's objective data so it's up to yourself how you interpret it or am I missing something dubious with this site?

 

[Tir Na Nog]

I could see him playing as a Fernandinho style 6, Fernandinho himself was more a box-to-box midfielder or at the very least played in a midfield 2 for City. Then Pep playing him as a lone 6 with two 8's ahead of him. Only problem for us is who'd play as the two 8's? I know people will throw out names like Willock or ESR, but let's be real they're a long way off. There's a massive difference between having potential and being ready for the level required.

Given our current options it's most likely that we'll have a Xhaka-Partey midfield pairing. Maybe as thing progress stuff might change but we don't really have the profiles to playing a 3 man midfield and in a two Xhaka is not only the best suited but pretty much the only suited partner to Partey.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Honestly what is the point of having an owner when you operate a self sustaining model ??

Well in one possible ideal world the fans would probably own the club but when someone has 800 M and knows he can turn it into 2000 M in space of a decade he is gonna jump at that change.

 

[MutableEarth]

I could see him playing as a Fernandinho style 6, Fernandinho himself was more a box-to-box midfielder or at the very least played in a midfield 2 for City. Then Pep playing him as a lone 6 with two 8's ahead of him. Only problem for us is who'd play as the two 8's? I know people will throw out names like Willock or ESR, but let's be real they're a long way off. There's a massive difference between having potential and being ready for the level required.

Given our current options it's most likely that we'll have a Xhaka-Partey midfield pairing. Maybe as thing progress stuff might change but we don't really have the profiles to playing a 3 man midfield and in a two Xhaka is not only the best suited but pretty much the only suited partner to Partey.

We could just play him as an 8.

 

[Rex Stone]

Just curious fam. I mean it's objective data so it's up to yourself how you interpret it or am I missing something dubious with this site?

Tbf just read your post and yeah it’s pretty spot on. It’s just whoscored with its random player ratings is smegma level stuff.

You’re right as he offers so much more than a six, he’s often played in the middle alongside Saul so the natural assumption is that he’s the holding midfielder.

Whilst they often touch the ball in less advanced positions than Koke and the other wide midfielder they’ll carry the ball way more and get more touches overall.

The wide players often tackle the most as Atletico like to trap opposition on the sidelines through the press. Thomas is so important for the attacking side of the game.

The best example of him is the highlights against Liverpool.


Both midfielders were used to sweep up but in the later stages his natural game shines through. He’s the only Atletico midfielder who can win the ball back and break lines and carry the ball into attacking areas.

He’s very good in the final third and can get into the penalty area himself and create chances. For me he’s wasted playing as a six or as pure pivot as his range from passing is decent but he’s much better up the field carrying the ball and creating chances.

 

[Artisan]

Honestly I’d be very surprised if this wasn’t the case. Arteta haven’t used any player in a b2b role so far, even when he’s played Willock. Just like Pep, he seem to prefer the 235 shape in attack with the 3 in midfield (1 DM and 2 fullbacks or 2 DMs and a fullback in our case) staying behind and doing the build up. If you look at Partey’s role at ATM then he’s doing just that, staying behind and being part of the build up.

I don't understand why Simeone is saying that? He clearly has not seen Partey's statsbomb profile.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

There's no way in hell I'd want Thomas to be our deepest lying/defensive midfielder, especially considering he'd be our best midfielder by far, and given that we control most of the games I'd want him to be a B2B, most definitely.

Not to mention the rest of our current crop in midfield are scandalous going forward, so why would you let Thomas stay back to accommodate who going forward, exactly? Torreira, Xhaka, Guendouzi, Ceballos? Nah man, no thanks.

I'm more worried about where our absolutely worst problem is and see that eh can fill it. If he played box to box id be worried about him waiting for a pass that would never come from our defence or midfield. At least if we had him anchoring the midfield he might be able to instigate something. But wherever he plays hes a player that would obviously improve us at a good price ---- this means Im expecting us to wrangle and try to make a deal and end up buying some one season wonder for 55 million instead.

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

The question for me now is, will Partey now want to play for us still after that dreadful performance?

 

[rich 1990]

The question for me now is, will Partey now want to play for us still after that dreadful performance?

One game against that lot won't change anything.

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

One game against that lot won't change anything.

Let's hope not, for me now he would probably be one of our more crucial players if we get him for the next few years.