Why are we outmuscled?

[karan kansal]

I just wanted to start this thread as i believe this is an important topic which no one seems to be focussing on. Please post your opinion on the following:

1) Well, why are we always outmuscled?
2) Bolton were the first to outmuscle and destroy our title challenge in 2002-2003. Why are we still being outmuscled after 2 seasons?
3) We have an emphasis on youth because we can't buy expensive players. Are we training this kids to get stuck in there?
4) Besides Fabregas who seems up for a fight with anyone i don't see any other youngster prepared to make any challenges. The Seniors anyways don't like to get their shorts dirty. So what has been done to address the "outsmuscled" problem?
5) Should we buy a midfield enforcer like Essien?
6) Will we ever regain what Parlour, Vieira, Petit and Edu gave us?

7) Will wenger stop complaining about this already? Why don't Arsenal players go out and outmuscle the ****e out of Bolton's colon?!!

 

[Army of Me]

Arsène Wenger
Arsenal Football Club
Arsenal Stadium
Avenell Road
Highbury
London N5 1BU

 

[bojed]

the consequence of relying too much on technical abilities i think

 

[jameske]

1) We have a team of midgets


5)Yes, although I think a lot of people will disagree with me. The reason I say yes is because we need someone in the midfield with some strength to intimidate the opponent. There is nothing to 'fear' in the Arsenal midfield.

6)Yes; one day...

 

[Army of Me]

actually, i didnt read your post properly, just one question...

1) what exactly did Edu give us in his however many years of lying on the treatment table?

 

[_scorpion_]

It is a huge problem.

Apart from Kolo, Cole, Cesc and Flamini, we have nobody that is willing to get stuck into the opposition. Today, 2 of those players were missing and 1 played half a match.

Back in the day (unbeaten run that is), players like Vieira, Wiltord, Edu, Parlour and Keown added that extra bit of nastiness into our play , to balance out the creative finesse side.

As total footballers, you could argue each of them had their short comings. But they never shirked the challenge! Hardly ever if you don't count Vieira's horrible Anfeild dive!

That is what we miss today.

Unfortinately, Mr Wenger is hell bent on finding the 'Super Quality' footballer these days. One of the traits that seems to be lacking in his 'Super Quality' targets is raw agressiveness and physicality.

I'm not talking about 6'8 plonkers. I'm talking about players that are either going to get the football or get a decent chunk of the oppositions leg! The players that put the fvcking foot in and the players that don't get bowled over by the oppositions' shadow looming next to them.

That is what I honestly think we miss in our side....from the backline to the forward line and on our wings.

But feck it I've had enough. I have given up on 2005. J

ust want to see us qualify for CL next year. I'll drive myself insane trying to follow Arsène's logic.

 

[bojed]

everybody will be insane if they ever try to follow Arsène's logic.

 

[karan kansal]

I'm talking about players that are either going to get the football or get a decent chunk of the oppositions leg! The players that put the fvcking foot in and the players that don't get bowled over by the oppositions' shadow looming next to them.

Yeah that's what i wonder as well. Why we don't have players who get into challenges and tell the other team that we won't be kicked off the park.

I think it all might have something to do with media furore about Red cards under wenger's reign. From the day the board came down hard upon the players to improve their image after the Ruud van fiasco we have not been the same. Even Vieira became milder in challenges.

 

[_scorpion_]

At the end of the day, sometimes I admire.. cough cough.. choke.. choke.. Morinhio for his 'Us against them' mentaility.

That's why Chelsea are where they are today and why we were so great during the unbeaten run.

We used to have a seige mentality...what ever happened to it?

 

[celestis]

Boys , we are getting out muscled not because we are physically weak but because we are not aggressive mentally. Sounds a bit weird . That is what it is . We are reactive not proactive. When you are beaten in 50 -50s in midfield it is because u don't want it as much as the other team. We are not aggressive enough and not pro active .

 

[_scorpion_]

Boys , we are getting out muscled not because we are physically weak but because we are not aggressive mentally. Sounds a bit weird . That is what it is . We are reactive not proactive. When you are beaten in 50 -50s in midfield it is because u don't want it as much as the other team. We are not aggressive enough and not pro active .

Its both.

Physically and mentally.

It makes no difference when your bark is bigger than your bite and with Cesc in the middle that is exactly what we have.

While I admire the kid and support him in the team, you cannot rely on an 18 year old provide the physical spark to get the team going.

It is just not realistic. The plain truth is that Wenger really needs to go back to his formula of finding physical athletes in the middle of the park. If they have experience....then even better.

Cesc will get more than his fair share of games in rotation.

Rather than invisible walls (Gilberto), lets get a visible wall that won't budge and will snap your ankle if you take it on.

How I miss our days as bullies.....

 

[celestis]

Only thing is Fabregas was not out there mate . Flamini and Gilberto were , both physically strong boys , there is no physical reason they cannot compete enough to give our creative players a chance.

 

[qs]

Flamini does get stuck in. Gilberto doesnt but thats not how he plays his game. Yes we could do with bringing in a strong midfielder for certain games but this sint exactly a new thought and complaing that tonights team werent strong enough is like complaining Bergkamp isn't quick enough. You cant expect 19 year olds to compete with players in their mid 20s to 30s in terms of strength.

 

[_scorpion_]

Only thing is Fabregas was not out there mate . Flamini and Gilberto were , both physically strong boys , there is no physical reason they cannot compete enough to give our creative players a chance.

I wasnt strictly talking about this peformance.

I couldnt care less about the C Cup. It's rubbish if you ask me.....less so if we win it with our juniors....but that isn tthe case now is it.

In general , Cesc is seen as the future of the club. Arsène said that himself.

I've raved on enough about Flamini and Gilberto...it doesnt get me anywhere other than a mind splitting brain ache.

 

[DannyGooner1982]

Why are we outmuscled?

Because we don't have enough muscle in midfield. I want Diop or some enforcer of that mould.

 

[_scorpion_]

Flamini does get stuck in. Gilberto doesnt but thats not how he plays his game. Yes we could do with bringing in a strong midfielder for certain games but this sint exactly a new thought and complaing that tonights team werent strong enough is like complaining Bergkamp isn't quick enough. You cant expect 19 year olds to compete with players in their mid 20s to 30s in terms of strength.

READ ABOVE.

Like I said...its a general coment about the squad/teams put out this season.

If you want to be a numbat and tell me about Bergkamps decline in speed thats great. But if you cannot acknowledge that Wenger HAS fvccked up this year by not bringing more physical players into the side then fvck it I won't bother with you.

 

[qs]

WE only lost 1 physical player, and like I said we need another strong midfielder. Since the Bolton game I think we've toughened up alot and Wengers recognised certain weakness's. Changing the formation was his way of addressing that weakness.

PS Fvck isnt a word :wink:

 

[_scorpion_]

Edu, Parlour, Keown, Vieira are 4 players that were part of the unbeaten run machine.

Tell me we've only lost one player again.

Or are you comparing this side with the side that finished close to daylight but second to Chelsea by a country mile?

Physical players make a difference. They add agression and create a no far mentality in the side. We don't need a team of thugs, but we need an injection of agressive performers.

And Vieira is Vieira. Not just one player in my humble opinion. A one of a kind physical athlete with touch and vision.

Don't waste your time now by listing the short comings of Keown, Parlour Edu and even Wiltord. I know them very well. But they were agressive players that made a difference in the squad.

 

[qs]

Edu, Parlour, Keown, Vieira are 4 players that were part of the unbeaten run machine.

Tell me we've only lost one player again.

I didnt say how may players we lost, I said we lost one physical pressence, and I was talking about between now and last season when we were not kicked off the field regularly. Edu was no more physical pressence than any of the current midfield.

Or are you comparing this side with the side that finished close to daylight but second to Chelsea by a country mile?

Close to daylight? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Physical players make a difference. They add agression and create a no far mentality in the side. We don't need a team of thugs, but we need an injection of agressive performers.

Where did I say they dont make a difference? I said we needed a pysical player in midfield, or do you just type whatever pops into your head without reading what people have posted?

And Vieira is Vieira. Not just one player in my humble opinion. A one of a kind physical athlete with touch and vision.

Vieira was great but youre seeing doube there, he was definitly only one player.

Don't waste your time now by listing the short comings of Keown, Parlour Edu and even Wiltord. I know them very well. But they were agressive players that made a difference in the squad.

Well Edu and Wiltord had their abilities but neither were any more aggressive than most of the current first team squad.

 

[_scorpion_]

Edu, Parlour, Keown, Vieira are 4 players that were part of the unbeaten run machine.

Tell me we've only lost one player again.

I didnt say how may players we lost, I said we lost one physical pressence, and I was talking about between now and last season when we were not kicked off the field regularly. Edu was no more physical pressence than any of the current midfield.

Or are you comparing this side with the side that finished close to daylight but second to Chelsea by a country mile?

Close to daylight? WTF is that supposed to mean?

Physical players make a difference. They add agression and create a no far mentality in the side. We don't need a team of thugs, but we need an injection of agressive performers.

Where did I say they dont make a difference? I said we needed a pysical player in midfield, or do you just type whatever pops into your head without reading what people have posted?

And Vieira is Vieira. Not just one player in my humble opinion. A one of a kind physical athlete with touch and vision.

Vieira was great but youre seeing doube there, he was definitly only one player.

Don't waste your time now by listing the short comings of Keown, Parlour Edu and even Wiltord. I know them very well. But they were agressive players that made a difference in the squad.

Well Edu and Wiltord had their abilities but neither were any more aggressive than most of the current first team squad.

I'm not going to bother with the paragraphical divide format that people seem to enjoy here.

We lost 4 players.

If you cant see we've been bullied out of more than one match then you are eother blind and or stupid.

The sheer fact that Wenger now opts for 5 in mid feild is testimony to that. We lack physical presence in the squad! Not to mention experience.

Quit wasting my time if your not going to do this properly. I'm sick of trying to walk people through it when its plain as fvcking day!