Will this post 2005 Arsenal nightmare ever end?

[Meatwad]

no but they would still have contacts in the club and would certainly know far more than us.

so you believe a publicly-traded company's finances are so secret that it takes inside knowledge to know what's going on? that's nonsense. i'm willing to bet that none of them has ever read an annual report. dein has his own agenda and they'll believe whatever he says because for most of them that's who they dealt with at arsenal.

 

[Illusion]

no but they would still have contacts in the club and would certainly know far more than us.

so you believe a publicly-traded company's finances are so secret that it takes inside knowledge to know what's going on? that's nonsense. i'm willing to bet that none of them has ever read an annual report. dein has his own agenda and they'll believe whatever he says because for most of them that's who they dealt with at arsenal.

Would love to see someone collect all the reports since Wenger's arrival and work out how much money the club made over that period, then add the net transfer spend (if not included in the accounts already) and see what figure is left over.

That should result in nothing less than a considerable sum of money that no longer appears to exist since we couldn't even stump up £2m more for Alonso when it was nearly a desperate situation.

 

[Meatwad]

that cash you speak of exists in the club's bank account, it didn't disappear. that information is also available in the annual reports.

 

[asajoseph]

no but they would still have contacts in the club and would certainly know far more than us.

so you believe a publicly-traded company's finances are so secret that it takes inside knowledge to know what's going on? that's nonsense. i'm willing to bet that none of them has ever read an annual report. dein has his own agenda and they'll believe whatever he says because for most of them that's who they dealt with at arsenal.

Speaking from experience, it's often amazing how little awareness there is around a company of it's own financial performance, when you move away from those people who have direct contact with the numbers.

I'd be surprised if people like Ferguson or Adebayor were any more informed about the finances than the average fan, who also probably hasn't read the annual report.

 

[irishgunnerz]

no but they would still have contacts in the club and would certainly know far more than us.

so you believe a publicly-traded company's finances are so secret that it takes inside knowledge to know what's going on? that's nonsense. i'm willing to bet that none of them has ever read an annual report. dein has his own agenda and they'll believe whatever he says because for most of them that's who they dealt with at arsenal.

Considering what Wenger himself said in interviews at end of last season, or indeed season before when admitted to a French newspaper that we have to sell at least one big name a season or indeed the board themselves said in the January window, or indeed Grimandis words and indeed it is the general consensus in football, from people working in the industry or who have contacts with the club, then yes I dont believe we are exactly rich. far from it.

The only thing thats nonsense is people believe that the negative impact of the Highbury deelopment shouldnt make the club cautious because the money is 'ringfenced'. Legally they can use whatever terms they want, theyre still responsible for the debt and the club could quite easily suffer, if it isnt already.

Arsenal's shortage of money is in part a legacy of building the Emirates Stadium which cost about £440m. They borrowed £260m with the rest coming from sponsors and other contracts that were structured with most of the money being received early in the deals, leaving little coming in now. In addition, the club's redevelopment of Highbury into flats has run into problems with the downturn in the property market and they must re-negotiate a £133m loan by April.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.footballeconomy.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.footballeconomy.com/</a>

''The financial arrangements for the group's property activities are separate and largely operate independently from the financing of the football business. Peter Hill Wood, February 2009

Here are a few bullet points from the Lazard document:

1) It believes that Arsenal's earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) will fall from between £55m-60m in 2009 to £35-40m in 2010. The most striking contributor to this squeeze that it cites is a 12-14% increase in costs to £179m "as a result of players being compensated for tax changes and a number of step-ups in wages for individual players".

2) It predicts that cash flow will fall by more than that because of some pre-payments on assorted deals that were taken in 2007.

3) It says that Arsenal's fans are already paying 40% more than the average for the big four English clubs for match tickets and 24% more for season tickets - implying there's little scope to increase gate revenues, especially in a recession.

4) It calculates Arsenal's gross average annual spend on new players as £18m, compared with £37m for the big four; and the net annual spend, including sales, as precisely zero, compared with a £20.2m big four average

5) Perhaps most germanely of all, it fears that redevelopment of Arsenal's former Highbury stadium into luxury apartments may not turn out to be profitable - and that refinancing £140m of property-related debt over the next couple of years will be neither cheap or easy.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/07/ive_obtained_a_copy_of.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... py_of.html</a>

And yes they did it for Usmanov but anyone who knows the industry knows Lazard Bros are one of the worlds leading Financial advisors. Google them if you want.

So no, were not sitting on aon ton of cash Meatwad, perhaps some more research would be in order?

 

[hujja]

I'm tired of this 'Arsenal are a top four team under threat from the likes of City, Everton, Spuds etc'. We don't hear 'Arsenal will be strong challengers for the title, Arsenal look like favourites for this trophy or that competition'.

Our reputation as a big club has taken an immense battering over the past couple of trophyless seasons. We're just not seen as all that great anymore.

 

[dyeruz]

I'm tired of this 'Arsenal are a top four team under threat from the likes of City, Everton, Spuds etc'. We don't hear 'Arsenal will be strong challengers for the title, Arsenal look like favourites for this trophy or that competition'.

Our reputation as a big club has taken an immense battering over the past couple of trophyless seasons. We're just not seen as all that great anymore.

We are a big club, but you can't stand still while other teams are seen to be progressing. Has our squad improved from last season..the fact that we've lost our main striker and gained a center back yet proven in the league? And the same noises keep coming up, trust the squad, trust this, trust that, its not about trust..it's about facts..fact is we challenged before fading badly, eduardo injury or no injury, and we've actually moved backwards since then, and now to totally contradict myself we could go on a run and challenge for the title but will Denilson be good enough, will Song hold,the ball up and not give it away..questions, questions.

 

[dyeruz]

I'm tired of this 'Arsenal are a top four team under threat from the likes of City, Everton, Spuds etc'. We don't hear 'Arsenal will be strong challengers for the title, Arsenal look like favourites for this trophy or that competition'.

Our reputation as a big club has taken an immense battering over the past couple of trophyless seasons. We're just not seen as all that great anymore.

We are a big club, but you can't stand still while other teams are seen to be progressing. Has our squad improved from last season..the fact that we've lost our main striker and gained a center back yet proven in the league? And the same noises keep coming up, trust the squad, trust this, trust that, its not about trust..it's about facts..fact is we challenged before fading badly, eduardo injury or no injury, and we've actually moved backwards since then, and now to totally contradict myself we could go on a run and challenge for the title but will Denilson be good enough, will Song hold,the ball up and not give it away..questions, questions.

 

[A_Gooner_Matata]

I know what the initial poster is getting at, but its threads like these that make supporters of smaller clubs laugh at Arsenal fans (most of whom have only seen the Wenger era). What's happened to Newcastle and Southampton is a nightmare. We're still within touching distance of achieving some of the greatest things possible in football, of winning our first European Cup. Obviously we need some changes, but this isn't a nightmare yet...not even close.

 

[qs]

(most of whom have only seen the Wenger era).

See thats just a load of ****. 4 years trophyless is bad for Arsenal no matter who's boss.

 

[Lord Dula]

Wenger certainly has changed his tune a bit over the past few years - he hardly ever says this is the best squad he's ever worked with, or even that he thinks we can go unbeaten all season. It's more "have faith we're maturing"

he knows we're not on the level we once we're but he'd never say it - wouldnt help!

 

[A_Gooner_Matata]

(most of whom have only seen the Wenger era).

See thats just a load of ****. 4 years trophyless is bad for Arsenal no matter who's boss.

Indeed. Certainly, Arsenal should win things.

 

[Glovegun]

Ive gone blue in the face pointing out Wenger's wrongdoings over the past few years, so rather than do it again I will say this:

There is a very good core to this team. Good, talented players who can go far. Arshavin, Sagna, Fabregas, van Persie.

But if Wenger thinks he can win the league without spending money and without heeding the basics of football (eg. how to scrap) then we are going nowhere.

Spend a bit of money, bring through more British lads and local players (because they are less inclined to piss off so early) and jettison the likes of Denilson and Diaby. They've been there long enough now, they arent going anywhere. Forget them.

 

[thegame24]

I dunno, if a guy wants to give us 100 million to spend i see that as ambition.

Ideally id take arabs to come in, no debt, already sponser us and are the most freely spending people in the world.

btw Hill Wood may not have shares but is a figure head. I hated him ever since he said hell never do business with a man like dein (even though dein made us who we are) and when he said we dont need his sort (stan) then going back and talking to him.

 

[General]

(most of whom have only seen the Wenger era).

See thats just a load of ****.

x2.

Who gives a toss about Newcastle and Southampton. We are the third most successful club in England. Sorry if our standards are a just tad higher.

 

[Lord Dula]

Dave Dein aint your biological father is he? Just checkin

 

[thegame24]

Yes he is.

 

[Lord Dula]

Tell him team up with the blobby russian over the breakfast table tomah then mush

 

[Viking]

David Dein behaved like a complete ****, which is why we don't want anything to do with him. And this entire rights issue wasn't as clear cut as 'Usmanov wants to GIVE the club 100m' either.

 

[Meatwad]

no but they would still have contacts in the club and would certainly know far more than us.

so you believe a publicly-traded company's finances are so secret that it takes inside knowledge to know what's going on? that's nonsense. i'm willing to bet that none of them has ever read an annual report. dein has his own agenda and they'll believe whatever he says because for most of them that's who they dealt with at arsenal.

Considering what Wenger himself said in interviews at end of last season, or indeed season before when admitted to a French newspaper that we have to sell at least one big name a season or indeed the board themselves said in the January window, or indeed Grimandis words and indeed it is the general consensus in football, from people working in the industry or who have contacts with the club, then yes I dont believe we are exactly rich. far from it.

The only thing thats nonsense is people believe that the negative impact of the Highbury deelopment shouldnt make the club cautious because the money is 'ringfenced'. Legally they can use whatever terms they want, theyre still responsible for the debt and the club could quite easily suffer, if it isnt already.

Arsenal's shortage of money is in part a legacy of building the Emirates Stadium which cost about £440m. They borrowed £260m with the rest coming from sponsors and other contracts that were structured with most of the money being received early in the deals, leaving little coming in now. In addition, the club's redevelopment of Highbury into flats has run into problems with the downturn in the property market and they must re-negotiate a £133m loan by April.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.footballeconomy.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.footballeconomy.com/</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

''The financial arrangements for the group's property activities are separate and largely operate independently from the financing of the football business. Peter Hill Wood, February 2009

Here are a few bullet points from the Lazard document:

1) It believes that Arsenal's earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) will fall from between £55m-60m in 2009 to £35-40m in 2010. The most striking contributor to this squeeze that it cites is a 12-14% increase in costs to £179m "as a result of players being compensated for tax changes and a number of step-ups in wages for individual players".

2) It predicts that cash flow will fall by more than that because of some pre-payments on assorted deals that were taken in 2007.

3) It says that Arsenal's fans are already paying 40% more than the average for the big four English clubs for match tickets and 24% more for season tickets - implying there's little scope to increase gate revenues, especially in a recession.

4) It calculates Arsenal's gross average annual spend on new players as £18m, compared with £37m for the big four; and the net annual spend, including sales, as precisely zero, compared with a £20.2m big four average

5) Perhaps most germanely of all, it fears that redevelopment of Arsenal's former Highbury stadium into luxury apartments may not turn out to be profitable - and that refinancing £140m of property-related debt over the next couple of years will be neither cheap or easy.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/07/ive_obtained_a_copy_of.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... py_of.html</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes they did it for Usmanov but anyone who knows the industry knows Lazard Bros are one of the worlds leading Financial advisors. Google them if you want.

So no, were not sitting on aon ton of cash Meatwad, perhaps some more research would be in order?

I don't need to google Lazard. They don't advise Arsenal, they work for Uzi and were hired to deliver the news that supports the client's objectives. I've also read Bruce Wasserstein's (CEO of Lazard) book Big Deal about M&A. It's one big text about snaking your way in and taking over a corporation. So you damn straight they are one of the world's best at this. I'm not hating on what these people are doing, I damn near admire them for the gigantic balls, but I can see through the bullshit.

And what's missing from your long series of quotes is facts from the annual report or the most recent 6 month report. That's all you need really.