AFCG7
Established Member
We won handsomely the other day because of Newcastle tiring in the last 30 mins and their squad being decimated by injury. If they had their first team fit we would probably have been hammered.
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Would we be better off playing 3-5-2?
- Thread starter MDGoonah41
- Start date
- Replies 38
- Views 2,893
DiamondGooner
Established Member
AFCG7 said:
Wins a win, Reading?
My point being we can score goals and win games playing as we have so we can't just blame the formation every time it's the players fault if they don't perform.
Tranquil
Well-Known Member
Please god no. Our defense always looks shaky with 4 let alone 3.
4-4-2 is what I want. With Theo and Giroud upfront. They compliment each other perfectly on paper. Put it to the test!
4-4-2 is what I want. With Theo and Giroud upfront. They compliment each other perfectly on paper. Put it to the test!
Eer no...
didn't we discuss this last season and came up with the answer that we don't have defensive aware wing backs to cover our wings
even if we change to 5-3-2 it's still risky.
didn't we discuss this last season and came up with the answer that we don't have defensive aware wing backs to cover our wings
even if we change to 5-3-2 it's still risky.
Giroud
Established Member
3-5-2 is certainly an interesting formation but we don't have the players for it. It's working really well in Serie A at the moment for some teams, most notably Juve and Fiorentina with Napoli doing pretty well as well. Fiorentina's set up is really interesting because their midfield have similar traits to ours in a sense. Pizarro plays the holding role and has similar skills to Arteta, both are fairly slow and lightweight as well. Borja Valero and Aquilani do what I believe our midfield should be doing by working closely together in more central midfield roles rather than attacking midfield roles. Jovetic drops behind Toni to help link the play a long with Borja and Aquilani making runs to support and create chances for the attack. The trio in midfield always have options because they work together and their movement always opens up space to play passes which is why Fiorentina have scored so many goals this season. They also have two very good wing backs out wide. Pizarro gets away with playing the holding role in Serie A because of the slower tempo, Arteta would get exposed playing a 3-5-2 in the Prem. Gibbs and Sagna aren't good enough attacking wise as well.
The way their midfield works is the way I would like to see our midfield do more often, we saw a bit of it against Reading when we were more compact with Cazorla collecting the ball deeper, playing alongside Jack. Santi and Jack made some great runs from deep that game and were extremely creative. Reading gave us a lot of space but if we played like that more often with Santi and Jack working togther from deep with Arteta close behind we would become far more comfortable and productive in possession.
The way their midfield works is the way I would like to see our midfield do more often, we saw a bit of it against Reading when we were more compact with Cazorla collecting the ball deeper, playing alongside Jack. Santi and Jack made some great runs from deep that game and were extremely creative. Reading gave us a lot of space but if we played like that more often with Santi and Jack working togther from deep with Arteta close behind we would become far more comfortable and productive in possession.
Cruisio
Established Member
A bit of variation in our formation would at least be nice to see when things aren't going well. It may not be a 3-5-2 but SOMETHING different would be nice
evoh_1
Established Member
full backs here aren't up to getting forward and back and aren't going to give you enough attacking flair to make it worthwhile for opponents winger to follow them back. Essentially we would get screwed on the wings which is something that will happen reguarly if we push up a well, for that I can't see it happening.
The 3-5-2 is supposed to be used to pack the middle becuase you think you lack quality and need to put more players in the space, that isn't our problem and would only reduce the space for the players to work in. We need to work on basics such and keeping moving and getting into spaces that are opened up as well getting in behind the defense.
3-5-2 isn't going to help when you are getting the basic bits of play all wrong.
The 3-5-2 is supposed to be used to pack the middle becuase you think you lack quality and need to put more players in the space, that isn't our problem and would only reduce the space for the players to work in. We need to work on basics such and keeping moving and getting into spaces that are opened up as well getting in behind the defense.
3-5-2 isn't going to help when you are getting the basic bits of play all wrong.
Cruisio said:
We did play something DIFFERENT
How about that formation whenever Gervinho and Ramsey plays? it is DIFFERENT !
scytheavatar
Established Member
MDGoonah41 said:
Of course you are disenchanted with our current squad right now, you'll settle for any kind of change even if it means it'll make things worse. For all the hate our fullbacks deserve to get what about our center backs? They have all made a ton of errors too this season.
Cruisio
Established Member
Rain Dance said:
Is a kind way of putting it
I agree with most people that Gibbs end product makes him useless in this formation, as useless as he is in the current formation, however that said it would remove the defensive responsbilities placed upon our wingers (currently Poldi and Ox) which no doubt hinders their game.
It would also offer a two striker system which would obviously better accommodate our strikers. Giroud and Poldi would both benefit from playing alongside Walcott imo.
Furthermore it would probably see the likes of Gervinho getting even less game time and Ramsey no longer deployed on the wing.
Lastly I think Jenkinson actually has a better end product than Sagna so he could be an option on the right side as he couples a decent cross with bags of energy and enthusiasm.
It's easy to look at this formation and point out the flaws (fact is we are flawed at present in whatever formation we adopt) however you just can't ignore the positives it could present and write it off as easily as some people seem to imo.
:- two strikers
:- no more gervinho
:- no more ramsey on the wing
:- less defensive responsibility for forward players
:- Good mixture of height, pace and power at the back
It would also offer a two striker system which would obviously better accommodate our strikers. Giroud and Poldi would both benefit from playing alongside Walcott imo.
Furthermore it would probably see the likes of Gervinho getting even less game time and Ramsey no longer deployed on the wing.
Lastly I think Jenkinson actually has a better end product than Sagna so he could be an option on the right side as he couples a decent cross with bags of energy and enthusiasm.
It's easy to look at this formation and point out the flaws (fact is we are flawed at present in whatever formation we adopt) however you just can't ignore the positives it could present and write it off as easily as some people seem to imo.
:- two strikers
:- no more gervinho
:- no more ramsey on the wing
:- less defensive responsibility for forward players
:- Good mixture of height, pace and power at the back
evoh_1
Established Member
pikey2000 said:
Gibbs has 3 assists to his name this season and although his crossing is garbage I think he can still offer alot going forward just not in the classical crossing play but in passing and cutbacks from wide.
gervinho would probably still play and would do so up front in this situation so that aint getting rid of him, only a transfer will do that.
3-5-2 is flawed but has its times for instance if we were playing a team with 2 strikers up front than you create a spare defender which is a nice idea. There will be no point in having 3 players at centreback with any mixture of pace, height strength, marking, tackling, positioning if the other team plays with a single striker as there will be two free players a waste of players.
If you want to get our right and left forwards / wingers more involved up the pitch then we need our central mids to sit and break up play constantly, that sort of platform will allow them to push up.
I'd rather have 4-2-2-2Anzac said:
Rain Dance said:
Only if it's the Magic Rectangle as opposed to the quasi 424,
and IMO the 4132 better suits our current resources & patterns.
IMO we lack genuine/effective penetrative width & balance because we are using the WFs as Defensive Wingers so as to enable the FBs to overlap & provide the width in the final 3rd.
As such IMO it is the role & quality of the FBs that is at the crux of many of our attacking and defensive issues,
and for me the FBs are overlooked as possibly being the most ineffective and disruptive positions in our patterns.
Attacking as they lack any genuine end product/purpose AND they require genuine wide forward attacking players to vacate the wide areas AND then provide cover.
Defence because they are out of position to defend a counter as we often over commit bodies forward,
meaning that the CBs are exposed and without numbers/cover they can not commit to challenge to reclaim the ball and are forced to try to jocky the opponent to slow play to allow the cover defence to get back.
Unfortunately our cover defence seldom looks to get behind the ball with back to our goal, and seem to prefer to try to claim the second ball from any challenge made by the CBs.
IMO we never relied as heavily on them in the final 3rd during The Highbury Years, and for mind it has coincided with the post 2008 possession passing style instigated with the switch to a 3 man midfield & the lone striker 451.
AW has been tinkering with the same basic shape & patterns in various guises (451/4231 etc) and also with different players, but IMO we've seldom seen it work for any sustained period as AW reverts to a conservative response to injury or whenever his best XI is no longer available.
AW's patterns are designed around his best XI rather than the 25 man squad
as seen from the periods of success AND attractive play. The teams of 07-08, and the beginning of 09-10 entertained and scored for fun, but fell apart once injuries occurred as the squad lacked the quality and cover in depth to execute to the required standard, and has done since the summer of 2008.
mavelous
Tinfoil hat aficionado
we already play 1-1-8-0, why mess up that innovation?
if you really want change, might as well swap vermaelen with giroud, that way we'll have some height and muscle at the back, besides mertesacker could use some company too. we'll now call it 2-1-7-0
if you really want change, might as well swap vermaelen with giroud, that way we'll have some height and muscle at the back, besides mertesacker could use some company too. we'll now call it 2-1-7-0
eye4goal
Established Member
Anzac said:
Totally agreed. The wide play is poor in general as the forwards are limited too. Gibbs was going forward alot more earlier in the season. I know not much comes from it, but he was stretching teams more. Sagna looks leggy, and has always been defensive minded. 4-3-1-2 would give us more midfield dominance, and Walcott gets more support too.
mavelous said:we already play 1-1-8-0, why mess up that innovation?
if you really want change, might as well swap vermaelen with giroud, that way we'll have some height and muscle at the back, besides mertesacker could use some company too. we'll now call it 2-1-7-0
It's NOT about change for change's sake,
but simply that change is required because AW's fundamental style & patterns have failed to maintain performance levels to win silverware since the move & the change to a 3 man midfield & lone striker in season 08-09.
The squads have not been without talent during that time as seen by some of the performances,
so the issue may have as much to do with his coaching and managerial style as formation.
TBH I want the 4231 to execute as our former 4411 during The Highbury Years.
The lone striker to roam across the front line a open up the centre as well as forcing either FB to hold by drifting wide;
I want the WFs to have attacking roles with 1 ball player to run at defenders on both the inside & down the flanks,
& 1 direct player to make direct late runs into the area;
I want the AMC not just be a creative player but more so a Trequartista type to provide both creativity AND goals;
I want the 2 CMs to include a ball winner and a Deep Playmaker to be used in open play akin to a diamond midfield with the ball winner holding and the DLP supporting the attack. The ball winner should be able to go forward when we look to press aggressively whilst the DLP then covers;
The FBs should primarily support the attack with the DLP (on the edge of the final 3rd as IMO we push up on the opposition area too far & our attack lacks depth/space & results in flat/square passing), & be used more as shock tactics in the final 3rd rather than be a staple component;
The CBs should be able to look to attack/reclaim the ball with the Anchorman/ball winner providing close support, rather than currently needing to jockey position until cover arrives.
A 21313 perhaps.
The lone striker to roam across the front line a open up the centre as well as forcing either FB to hold by drifting wide;
I want the WFs to have attacking roles with 1 ball player to run at defenders on both the inside & down the flanks,
& 1 direct player to make direct late runs into the area;
I want the AMC not just be a creative player but more so a Trequartista type to provide both creativity AND goals;
I want the 2 CMs to include a ball winner and a Deep Playmaker to be used in open play akin to a diamond midfield with the ball winner holding and the DLP supporting the attack. The ball winner should be able to go forward when we look to press aggressively whilst the DLP then covers;
The FBs should primarily support the attack with the DLP (on the edge of the final 3rd as IMO we push up on the opposition area too far & our attack lacks depth/space & results in flat/square passing), & be used more as shock tactics in the final 3rd rather than be a staple component;
The CBs should be able to look to attack/reclaim the ball with the Anchorman/ball winner providing close support, rather than currently needing to jockey position until cover arrives.
A 21313 perhaps.
