Would we have dropped off so much with Wenger?

[GDeep™]

Only Wenger could have squandered a 1-0 lead against 10-men in a European competition. One of the worst managers in European competitions.

That doesn't take away from his early league title wins and FA cup wins. But in Europe, he was shocking.

In his 18 year career with Arsenal, he went to a European final only once, and lost. Even when he literally had his best team, the invincibles, they lost to Chelsea in the quarter finals of the CL. Just to put things into context, Emery went to the Europa League final in his first season with us.

Wenger was never going to get us a European trophy if he continued being Arsenal manager for 100 years.

Teams like Barcelona and Manchester United, super clubs, have gone 30 years without a European trophy.

Wenger actually done well in Europe considering after 2004 he never really had a top side, worked on a budget etc.

You mention Emery, but he was a Europa League merchant? What has he done in the CL? Wenger was barely in the EL, he was always qualifying for the CL and the KO stages

Not getting into such debates though. The question of this thread is pretty simply and the answer is CLEARLY NO.

 

[GDeep™]

Why do people keep saying the league is better now? It clearly isn’t. The weakest City, the weakest Chelsea, the weakest Utd. NO team can defend etc.

We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.

Also Everton, Everton under Moyes better. Villa under O’Neill was better.

The competition is probably the weakest I have ever seen. The standard of the league is the poorest ever probably.

Had we been better run, we could have taken advantage, like Sp**s are trying to do now.

 

[truth_hurts]

Wenger was playing Eboue in a front 3cat one stage. He was past it and regularly being outfoxed by younger managers.

 

[Riou]

Also Everton, Everton under Moyes better. Villa under O’Neill was better.

The competition is probably the weakest I have ever seen. The standard of the league is the poorest ever probably.

Had we been better run, we could have taken advantage, like Sp**s are trying to do now.

Even the mid-late 1990s had some great teams...us and United getting to the top, Newcastle, Leeds, Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa just behind that...think the Premiership, from back then at least, gets underrated...from 1995/1996 onwards, is when it really started to become a top league.

 

[Harz]

Why do people keep saying the league is better now? It clearly isn’t. The weakest City, the weakest Chelsea, the weakest Utd. NO team can defend etc.

We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.

The league is better and that's why those top teams look bad. The league is only as tough as its worst team, and there are no easy victories in the prem anymore.

 

[GDeep™]

The league is better and that's why those top teams look bad. The league is only as tough as its worst team, and there are no easy victories in the prem anymore.

We nearly beat Southampton last week with our bad form and ten men. They are 3rd. League is the poorest I ever remember.

 

[GDeep™]

One thing you can say with your chest, if Wenger had the 300M we spent in the last 3 years, he would have ballers stacked in this team we would be floating in the top 4.

Utd and Chelsea were top 4 last season with dodgy squads and novice coaching, Sp**s are top 4 now and they don’t have a great team. The season before, Emery should’ve got top 4.

The league is weak.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Teams like Barcelona and Manchester United, super clubs, have gone 30 years without a European trophy.

Wenger actually done well in Europe considering after 2004 he never really had a top side, worked on a budget etc.

You mention Emery, but he was a Europa League merchant? What has he done in the CL? Wenger was barely in the EL, he was always qualifying for the CL and the KO stages

Not getting into such debates though. The question of this thread is pretty simply and the answer is CLEARLY NO.

I don't even like the correlation between CL winners and quality of the team too much.

Well, there is obviously a HIGH correlation, but only to such an extend that you are probably one of the top 6 teams or so, if you win it.

There are exceptions to the rule, e.g. Bayern last year when it was just super clear and the gap was huge. Also Barca 2011. But it is rare that the best team is significantly better than their closest rivals.

Overall, CL is like 30% luck, which includes referees, injuries, match day fitness etc.
I mean, Real Madrid won the CL 3 times in a row without ever really being the best side, merely, winning it due to wrong calls by the referee.
One can blame us/Wenger for not doing better at times, but we have never been miles apart from the super rich clubs and got very very unlucky more than once.

Would not call Wenger a failure in Europe for that matter.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Why do people keep saying the league is better now? It clearly isn’t. The weakest City, the weakest Chelsea, the weakest Utd. NO team can defend etc.

We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.

The CL is pretty similar too.

No real standout teams across Europe now which is why the smaller teams are getting opportunities to progress further in the competition. Under AW we were coming up regularly against one of the greatest ever Barcelona sides, Bayern and even that brilliant Utd team with likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic etc.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Why do people keep saying the league is better now? It clearly isn’t. The weakest City, the weakest Chelsea, the weakest Utd. NO team can defend etc.

We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.

Maybe because they are? Look at the league table for 2016-17 and tell me those teams were better than they are now. Hull, Middlesbrough and Sunderland got relegated and Chelsea won and we finished 5th.

No, the league is much better now. It’s been a lot of influx of money and good coaches and players over this 5 year period.

 

[GDeep™]

Maybe because they are? Look at the league table for 2016-17 and tell me those teams were better than they are now. Hull, Middlesbrough and Sunderland got relegated and Chelsea won and we finished 5th.

No, the league is much better now. It’s been a lot of influx of money and good coaches and players over this 5 year period.

We would be top 4 now had we invested better since Wenger left though. We’ve spent more than 300M.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

We would be top 4 now had we invested better since Wenger left though. We’ve spent more than 300M.

Think we have to agree to disagree. I really don’t share that view. Not only is it wrong but it would also make me miserable believing that. Talk about being in a ****ty situation if what you state would actually be correct.

The problems we have as a club go years back and the rot had sat in under Wenger. Let’s not forget that.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Of course not. Simply because the 300M or so we’ve been spent since he left, he would’ve done better with. At minimum, battling for 4th or 5th.

Based on what? This is a man who once he got money spent £210M of it on Xhaka, Mustafi, Auba, Laca and Lucas Perez.

Bare in mind recently our only real bad money signing has been Pepe and thats only because of the cost. And saliba but he still holds his value and could easily be played and become world class.

History would suggest we have spent better since Wenger left.

 

[berric]

No but there would be a dropoff regardless and putting into context it would be borderline macohistic from both Wenger's and fans' perspective.

If we had a competent board 2013 and onwards, then it would have been a different story.

 

[GDeep™]

History would suggest we have spent better since Wenger left.

With Wenger we signed players and finished top 4. After Wenger we spent record amounts and finished 8th and are currently 15th, you yourself just today said we need a squad overhaul.

The signings must be crap if you spent record money on a squad overhaul and now need another squad overhaul .

 

[GDeep™]

The problems we have as a club go years back and the rot had sat in under Wenger. Let’s not forget that.

The rot did set in under Wenger but a lot has happened since then. Club structure has changed multiple times, multiple managers, records breaking funds on transfers etc.

We should be in a better situation today. The resources and structures have been there to be a top 4 club today and we messed it up.

Today for example, it’s bad coaching that’s holding us back, nothing more. We should be much higher up in the table.

 

[GDeep™]

Some of you just don’t want to say we would be in a better situation with Wenger, it’s pains you to admit that.

So I’ll put it a different way - we would be in a better position today had we even employed half decent people and not criminals like Raul.

We would be in a better situation today if Emery was allowed to sign who he wanted, maybe - because none of Pepe, Saliba, Torreira, Guendouzi etc are starting at Arsenal even today.

 

[GDeep™]

@HairSprayGooners is a funny guy.

You say Arteta should be doing better and he says no because the squad needs an overhaul. Then he goes into another thread to bash Wenger as say we signed better players after he left.

300M after Wenger “well spent”, yet the squad needs an overhaul. OK.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

The rot did set in under Wenger but a lot has happened since then. Club structure has changed multiple times, multiple managers, records breaking funds on transfers etc.

We should be in a better situation today. The resources and structures have been there to be a top 4 club today and we messed it up.

Today for example, it’s bad coaching that’s holding us back, nothing more. We should be much higher up in the table.

I don’t think Wenger bought well over the latter part of his reign. So wouldn’t necessarily think he would have invested better.

We also had real defensive issues year over year. So not sure his coaching was top notch either.

Look, we are in a **** situation right now and let’s hope Arteta and the players can get us out of it.

 

[Sweet'n'Soulful]

Wenger wouldn’t be here now so it’s not really a discussion. Would he have steadied the ship and not continued the decline if he had another two years, is what we should be asking. And the answer to that is ‘unlikely’.