Would we have won the league if Cesc and Nasri stayed?

[a_fourteen]

I think this highlights the whole "team being greater than the sum of its parts" argument. Like for like, player for player, Cesc and Nasri (when on form and committed) are better individuals then maybe we have now in their respective positions. But we'd play a different way, there'd be different responsibilities on certain players, and maybe we wouldn't see the harmony and balance we have now.

WIth a couple of quality additions in the attacking areas, a fit and returning Wilshere to add to the midfield blend, and a more together & consistence defence will see us be a force next season. Its all about balance and players getting the best out of each other.

With everyone fit and well, we have a first choice 11. But we get a chance to play that way 2 or 3 times a season maybe. In that respect, there will be constant changing of players and therefore the balance and non reliance on stars is important. No coincidence Untied are top and do exactly this. They probably have fewer genuine stars now than they did in their prime of late 90's early 2000's.

One final thing that cannot be overlooked - RVP's captaincy has been one of my biggest positives this season. I completely see him signing a new contract, and I think his leadership and Vermaelen's vice captaincy have bled through the squad in their attitudes.

I have to say, I get far greater enjoyment watching this Arsenal team than the one of the last few seasons, mainly because we actually look like a team. Maybe we needed to take a step back to take a couple of steps forward.

great post

 

[DJ_Markstar]

a fully fit RVP + cesc is something we have never had. with the leagues best striker and creative midfielder in our ranks we could have turned a lot of those games in our favor. just staying.

Lies.

 

[future heroes]

We had Fabregas in the first team for 7 years and won nothing. Why would this season be different?

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

the last we were

Song Wilshere

Walcott Cesc Nasri

RVP

And i remember we call it the super six we were beats teams for fun but i dont know what happend after carling cup final. really shame we were challenging on the title.

this year we lacking attacking midfielder but we are doing not bad. hope this summer wenger buy us an quality attacking midfielder.

 

[Hunta]

^^^
Theo van nasregas

Anyway, i don't think we've missed Nasri at all, yes he was - and still is great at keeping the ball, but he was never a proper LW and i think we'll see next season just how vital it is having 2 proper wide men on the wing. Ox will make those who still think we miss Nasri, think again next season.

Cesc? Obviously we'd be better with him, he was the best midfielder in the league for years and ****s on any other midfielder currently in the league, if Cesc was still here you wouldn't have the media wanking themselves over Silva and Modric all the time, because he's a class above both of them IMO.

 

[future heroes]

And i remember we call it the super six we were beats teams for fun but i dont know what happend after carling cup final. really shame we were challenging on the title.

We trashed Leyton Orient in the FA cup and then played like **** in the PL game against Sunderland where the assistant referee incorrectly ruled out Arshavin's goal as offside and the referee missed Titus Bramble's push in Arshavin's back just as he was shooting inside the box to deny us a blatant penalty.

Then the backheel traitor showed his real sympathies in the next game

After that, the season was over.

 

[RUS arsenal]

We would've been contenders had they stayed and we still got another midfielder, be it Arteta or somebody of similar quality. The thing is, had they stayed then the combined factors of no additional midfielder and Wilshere out for the season would've equaled only a Top 4 finish.

In any case, I think it is a good thing we moved on from Cesc and Nasri, no offense to Fab, but he is not cut out to lead a side to a trophy. In that sense, Barca is perfect for him.

 

[dysphoria]

nope, as good and talented cesc and nasri are, i truly believe that with the work ethic, mentality and togetherness we have now in the squad, we're actually CLOSER to winning the league with this team then we were with them.


We all knew what the missing ingredients were in last year's team, hell, in teams for a few years now, it'd be pointless to speculate how we'd have turned out if the likes of arteta, mertesacker, yossi and santos were brought in when cesc and nasri were around, it wouldn't have happened because of wenger.

 

[a_fourteen]

so the consensus then is that we dont miss them. interesting.

 

[dysphoria]

so the consensus then is that we dont miss them. interesting.

Yea, not really, i don't think so anyway, what we may have lost in talent with cesc and nasri we've made up in other, equally as important ways with the likes of arteta, yossi, mertesacker and santos. We're still, a few quality players short of winning the league but the crux is that IF we manage to build on our current squad with the experience that we NOW have in the team, we'll really have a proper shot at winning the league, if we had brought in a couple of talented youngsters when cesc and nasri were around, we'd definitely be better off in having players of actual ability but i doubt over the course of the league season that they that bunch would actually have the drive, know how and mental fortitude to actually get them there.

If all it took was talent, fungus would have replaced the likes of giggs, scholes and rio and with younger counterparts, he knew with the likes of de gea, jones, wellback and smalling coming into the team, he needed to keep that core of experienced professionals around, players who have done it before to guide the youngsters.

Its really all about balance and with our squad now, we're essentially CLOSER to finding that sweet spot then we have been for a few years now.

 

[ferrarif50hunt]

F*ck Nasri, he wouldn't have made a difference unless he found his best form again, which he hasn't.

But, Fabregas :cry: :cry:

 

[dysphoria]

F*ck Nasri, he wouldn't have made a difference unless he found his best form again, which he hasn't.

But, Fabregas :cry: :cry:

personally, i think i'll be more devastated if rvp leaves at the end of this season then i was last season when cesc left.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Anyone denying that we miss Cesc's quality is either deluded or lying to themselves.

 

[coopsollini]

Nasri would have maybe added a bit, as in a couple of goals but i'm glad he has gone, people like him give football a bad name. With cesc, sure he would have added something but the cesc era failed, we needed to move on and it feels like we are getting there now. Id love for robin to stay, and if we add podolski and one or two others we could be just about there, with a well built squad...there seems to be a really good spirit at the moment and that was something that was never going to happen with those two want-a-ways here.

 

[Anzac]

We would never have spent the amount of money we did bringing in the likes of Arteta, Mertesacker, Gervinho, Chamberlain and Santos. Fabregas would've pulled his hamstrings half a dozen more times and Nasri would only show up for another 3 months. We would not have won the league. I'd wager we would be in the exact same position we are right now, only instead of a horrible start and great finish, it would be the other way round.

mertesacker, gervinho, chamberlain, santos deals were being negotiated before nasri, cesc left. the only ones in question really are arteta and benayoun. our squad would have looked something like this had they stayed:

nasri----rvp----walcott
------cesc---ramsey
---------song
gibbs--verm--kos--sagna
------szczesny

good enough me thinks.

I'm not sure I agree that they were in negotiation.
Yes re Gervinho, Jenkinson & Ox, but I don't think we sat down re Mert, Santos & Co until after OT,
but I don't think OT was the sole reason for the late activity.

IMO AW's initial strategy for the summer was always based around Fabregas leaving,
and his targets were based upon Nasri staying to play the AMC role.
So Cesc should not be a part of the 'what if' question.

IMO he was looking at something like:

.............RVP............
Gervinho...Nasri......Walcott

.....Wilshere...Song.......

Gibbs...TV......Kos.....Sagna
..........Szczesny............

with Rambo, Diaby, AA, Rosicky, JD & Chamakh as primary bench/rotation options.

In answer to the league = IMO that team IS capable of challenging but the squad is not good enough to sustain the challenge in the latter half of the season when involved in 4 comps.
As it now stands we can replace Nasri with Wilshere & play Arteta alongside Song, and whilst we have better depth in some areas we still lack in others, and as others have said the status quo still remains re our title capabilities.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Don't understand this whole "Cesc era" rubbish. The guy is one top class player and was in a team that wasn't there quality-wise to win things.

The only thing Cesc did wrong was not being born 5 years earlier.

 

[sesquioxide]

In any case, I think it is a good thing we moved on from Cesc and Nasri, no offense to Fab, but he is not cut out to lead a side to a trophy. In that sense, Barca is perfect for him.

I agree. Can anyone imagine a Fabregas-led Arsenal trying to chase 4 goals after getting beaten 4-0 in Milan?

One can argue that Arsenal with Fabregas may not have been 4-0 down. But then again, this team crucially has the mental strength to chase games when going a goal or even two down. That mental strength propelled us to try to score 4 at the Emirates, and built a belief that now situates us in 3rd place. We wouldn't have this strength if Fabregas is still around, and we therefore wouldn't have won trophies.

 

[AnthonyG]

Not sure; no one can be. I'm glad, however, that Cesc and the Barca-circus are gone.

I honestly don't spare a thought for either of them.

 

[Anzac]

Not sure; no one can be. I'm glad, however, that Cesc and the Barca-circus are gone.

I honestly don't spare a thought for either of them.

Agreed.
I think I said elsewhere that IMO that the Cesc/Barca scenario had become a distraction that had detracted form our capability & performance in the last 2 seasons of his time, particularly when he was injured for half the time.

 

[Rain Dance]

mertesacker, gervinho, chamberlain, santos deals were being negotiated before nasri, cesc left. the only ones in question really are arteta and benayoun. our squad would have looked something like this had they stayed:

nasri----rvp----walcott
------cesc---ramsey
---------song
gibbs--verm--kos--sagna
------szczesny

good enough me thinks.

good enough for a fight for 4rth place that is...