Would you sign for 2nd and winning the EL?

[yorch44]

Had you said this before you'd kicked a ball this season you would've sounded mental. It speaks volumes of the improvement you've made and just how much you're performing above expectation. If a poll had been made this summer that said "Would you take 3rd place now even if it means we win zero silverware this season?", I feel fairly confident in saying at least 85% would've said yes.

I know expectations change as the season progresses but your goal (and reason to celebrate) this season was clearly top 4. Absolutely no one expected you to challenge for the league. If you cannot celebrate finishing as a title contender with the age of your squad and your star striker out injured, I think you really need to take a step back and look at the situation from a different perspective.

You've made absolutely insane progress this season.

No one expected Chelsea and Liverpool to implode the way they did. That has a lot of impact on it.

 

[Lakersgooner24]

If we had no shot at the title, and the dilemma was top 4 vs out of top 4 w/ EL, then I'd take the EL hands down, but no way would I give up a title challenge for Europa.

We all know our European pedigree is abysmal and is what puts us a tier below the truly elite of European football, and even though the EL is uninspiring, as long as we're in it, I'd want us to win it, but not at the expense of a potential PL title which we still have a fair shot at regardless of our dip in form.

The league is what every side aims to win at the start of each campaign and is the basis for the season, with the push for the European/domestic cups built around that.

 

[14Henry]

If we had no shot at the title, and the dilemma was top 4 vs out of top 4 w/ EL, then I'd take the EL hands down, but no way would I give up a title challenge for Europa.

We all know our European pedigree is abysmal and is what puts us a tier below the truly elite of European football, and even though the EL is uninspiring, as long as we're in it, I'd want us to win it, but not at the expense of a potential PL title which we still have a fair shot at regardless of our dip in form.

The league is what every side aims to win at the start of each season and is the basis for the season, with the push for the European/domestic cups built around that.

That's an easy decision but.

It's like saying do you prefer to finish 5th and win the EL or finish 4th and not win it.

No sane person would pick 4th and no trophy over 5th and a trophy especially as it guarantees CL football.

 

[Nunowoolmez]

That's a tough one.

Right now we are still well in it (PL) but the momentum has shifted there is no doubt.

Winning trophies is what the game is about at big clubs & we need one. I don't care if it's the lower tier of European competition, it's still a fckin trophy ! We've not won a European trophy in a very long time, lost our last 4 finals.

This year there are some real top teams in the EL, it's almost a mini ECL. Plus it would be another thing to bait Sp**s with haha

 

[Lakersgooner24]

That's an easy decision but.

It's like saying do you prefer to finish 5th and win the EL or finish 4th and not win it.

No sane person would pick 4th and no trophy over 5th and a trophy especially as it guarantees CL football.

True, but even if the conditions were top 4 vs mid table w/ EL, I'd still pick the latter. But that wasn't meant to be a key point in my post anyways. My point was that if there's a PL title within grasp, I believe you should take your chances in winning that.

Now, I understand the pragmatic choice under the current circumstances would be the guaranteed EL + 2nd, and while it'd be disappointing to lose the title, most would still consider it a successful season. However, as a supporter, I've enjoyed the journey we've had in working our way back up from mid table mediocrity to title contenders, so in this hypothetical scenario, I'd rather dream big and see where the rest of the season takes us.

Also, while we'll always likely be in contention for the EL at worst each season, we don't know the next time we'll be this close to a league title considering City haven't been as dominant as they tend to be, Liverpool and Chelsea are having uncharacteristically terrible seasons, United are still in rebuild mode but seem to be on the verge of reawakening under ETH + potential new ownership, and Newcastle's "project" looks ahead of schedule (especially if they get top 4), etc. While every season has its surprises, this season seems as good of an opportunity as any to go for it.

 

[glitchform]

Well time will tell whether the EL and 2nd was actually better than what we achieve come May.

One thing I have learnt from this thread is how arrogant some Arsenal fans are, likely those who didn't even see us win titles, and how they think we are this super club that just is too good for an FA Cup or Europa league.

it's not that. If you're too humble and underestimate yourself, you become like the other team in North London. If anything, our squad has a tendancy to become intimidated when they should be cocksure and play out of their skins. The attitude of our players should be 'who is De Breine' anyway? It's like a boxers mentality. Of course, being this egotistical is crazy talk for us fans, but that's why we aren't playing.

Whereas what I saw with Nketiah on Wednesday was the exact opposite, it was the attitude of 'I'm going to get into my bosses good books so he has his eye on me when big J comes back.' Comparing yourself to others is not the way to get good, you have to compare yourself to yourself.

I didn't mind losing to city in that FA cup cos I felt like we played a fairly decent game in both halves, but if the players are going to crumble after that, then a kill or be killed mentality has to come about immediately. And in that case, you can't afford to slack off on the prem, because that will inevitably reflect back into the EL.

 

[MartiSaka]

Two weeks ago after the utd game, it would have been a definite no, buts it's tempting now.

 

[Penn_]

A club the size of ours? That hasn't won the league in 19 years? That hasn't won a CL. That hasn't won the EL?

We might be one of the most successful teams in England. But we haven't laid a glove on European football.

I can understand you saying no as the league would eclipse the EL by some way. However I don't think we, as a club, are in any position to turn are noses up at the Europa League and think we are above it.

Real Madrid yes. United yes. Liverpool yes. But us? No.

I don’t see how the EL rectifies that tbh, it’s a competition you enter because you weren’t good enough.

And if we win the game in hand we’re still leading. I wouldn’t give up this chance, with 15 games left, for the second rate European trophy.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

Should we keep pace with City & win our game in hand, the hope is they go deep in both the FA Cup and CL to distract them from the league which allows us to pull ahead.

If, and this is a big if, we've also had a deep run in the Europa and are ahead by a healthy margin in the league that will allow us to split the focus evenly between both competitions, then yes, I want us to make a serious effort at winning it.

But the league title will always take precedence and the Europa jettisoned if it comes down to a matter of prioritizing trophies.

 

[Riou]

Yes...don't think we have the experience to win the league yet anyway (plus a lot of our main players are injured/injury prone) plus that loss to City feels like a massive game changer too sadly.

Winning the Europa would be very good for us, we need to improve our European honours list too.

In terms of leagues and cups, we aren't that far from United and Liverpool, but it's the Euro trophies that really keeps them a level ahead of us.

We only have two, the Cup Winners Cup in 1994 and the Fairs Cup (the original name for the Europa League) in 1970... that's not good enough really...no ****ing idea how we didn't win a few with the manager and players we had in the 00s, were very unlucky not to.

Adding another European title and getting the chance to win the Euro Super Cup next season, is something we cannot turn our noses up on... especially when we have never won the Champions League.

Feel we will still have chances to win the league these next few years anyway, just feel we aren't quite there yet so I would take this offer.

 

[Bloodbather]

Hell, I'd argue coming 2nd and not winning the EL has more value than finishing 5th and winning it. We actually saw that happen to an extent with Mourinho at Man Utd. Won the EL in 16/17 and finished 6th but the majority of people would point to his 17/18 season where they came 2nd but lost the league to the centurion Man City team as his most successful season at Man Utd.

Great point.

 

[Dokaka]

No one expected Chelsea and Liverpool to implode the way they did. That has a lot of impact on it.

Ignore the standings in the table, 51 points after 22 games with a +26 GD would be great in any season.

As an example, you're currently 1 point off where the Invincibles were at the same time that season.

 

[TornadoTed]

I would love a European trophy, the final against Chelsea and the semi against Atletico really hurt.

I guess it depends on how things progress though really. Come semi final time I think the priority is different depending on how the league looks. If we are 6 points clear we have to look at things differently to if we are 6 points behind for example.

 

[Dokaka]

Nobodies saying it isn't progress.

What I'm saying is if you are having your best season in your clubs history, 2 of your main rivals being a disaster and you end up finishing 3rd and winning 0 silverware it can't be considered a huge success.

4th was the aim. But we didn't expect to be 20 points ahead of Liverpool or Chelsea in Jan. Its par for the course.

Again it's all down to perspective. Had we still had our 7 points lead I wouldn't swap it. But we don't. We are second and playing poorly. We look void of confidence and we have the best team in the league ahead of us with easier fixtures and we also have United breathing down our neck. We have our main player Partey out injured again and Jesus. What looked good 3 weeks ago isn't the same.

Now if we go and beat Villa tomorrow and Forest take points of City and we win our game in hand then I'd veer more to go for not signing for 2nd and EL. But what are the odds of us winning the next 2 and City losing or drawing against Forest? Pretty long odds.

I get what you're saying. I guess the binary choice of 2nd and "nothing" vs. 2nd and a trophy is a bit too.. well, binary?

Surely there's a difference between something like finishing 2nd 2-4 points off City vs. finishing 2nd 8 points off City. I'd argue a 2nd place finish one game behind City would be a much easier pill to swallow rather than a "collapse" and no trophy.

 

[14Henry]

I get what you're saying. I guess the binary choice of 2nd and "nothing" vs. 2nd and a trophy is a bit too.. well, binary?

Surely there's a difference between something like finishing 2nd 2-4 points off City vs. finishing 2nd 8 points off City. I'd argue a 2nd place finish one game behind City would be a much easier pill to swallow rather than a "collapse" and no trophy.

When Saka looks back on his career he will remember the trophies and winning big finals or leagues.

He will not tell his grandkids one year he won nothing but finished 2 points behind the champions.

 

[TornadoTed]

When Saka looks back on his career he will remember the trophies and winning big finals or leagues.

He will not tell his grandkids one year he won nothing but finished 2 points behind the champions.

Why did I immediately think of Harry Kane

 

[bingobob]

Surprised this is as tight as it is given there is no alternative.

Id sign for relegation and winning a European trophy.

 

[Dokaka]

When Saka looks back on his career he will remember the trophies and winning big finals or leagues.

He will not tell his grandkids one year he won nothing but finished 2 points behind the champions.

That's a nice sentimental thing for sure, but for the overall progress for Arsenal as a club, players seeing Arsenal as PL title contenders will attract better talent, making squad building easier and attract bigger sponsor deals as well.

Point being, pushing City to a close title race even if you finish second would get you closer to the actual trophies you want. I'm sure Saka would take one league or CL trophy over 5 EL trophies, no doubt about that for me at all.

 

[14Henry]

That's a nice sentimental thing for sure, but for the overall progress for Arsenal as a club, players seeing Arsenal as PL title contenders will attract better talent, making squad building easier and attract bigger sponsor deals as well.

Point being, pushing City to a close title race even if you finish second would get you closer to the actual trophies you want. I'm sure Saka would take one league or CL trophy over 5 EL trophies, no doubt about that for me at all.

We finished second behind Leicester. Did that get us closer to winning the league the following 3-5 years after?

United finished 2nd under Ole. No league after?

There are no guarantees that finishing 2nd means finishing 1st after.

 

[Dokaka]

We finished second behind Leicester. Did that get us closer to winning the league the following 3-5 years after?

Come on mate, do you really think finishing 2nd to Leicester is the same as finishing 2nd to the team who's been running the league for the last decade?

Everyone expects City to win the league. Leicester winning it is one of the biggest team sporting achievements ever.