Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[4R5Emaniac]

But we're nowhere near Bayern.
When they got trashed by one of the best Barcelona side in history in 2009 (5-1 on agreggate) they've said "Never again, this result is unacceptable".
They've built back their club in 3 years to become one of the most powerful team in Europe.

But we haven't seen anyone speaking about yesterday humiliation. Wenger blames the referee.

Spoiler: That's what Klinsmann have said after they got destroyed by Barcelona

“From my point of view, the match was a great disappointment,” he told uefa.com after the game.

“It is difficult to explain. The key was to fight for every ball but two goals early in the game did a lot of damage and we did not fight hard enough.

“We need to overcome the criticism. It is a very hard defeat and difficult to digest.”

But the former German international striker also credited and heaped praise on Bayern's opponents.

“Barcelona played very well and showed our limitations. It is quite possible that we have just played against the future champions of Europe,” he said. “[Lionel] Messi is a great player and it’s a pleasure to see him playing.

“We want to be among the four best teams in Europe but we have a lot of improving to do. It is very difficult to compensate for the absences of important players like Lucio, [Daniel] van Buyten and [Philipp] Lahm.

“Now, we must concentrate on the fight for the Bundesliga title and ensure we are in the Champions League again next season.”

Spoiler: And beckenbauer...

“What I saw in the first half was without a doubt the worst football Bayern have played in their entire history,” he said after the match.

“It was an exhibition. Almost a humiliation. Barcelona gave us a lesson in football.”

Die Roten chairman Karl-Heinze Rummenigge, meanwhile, refused to comment on the future of under-fire coach Jurgen Klinsmann but instead rallied his side to bounce back on the domestic front.

“We have no chance in the Champions League now, that is obvious,” he boomed.

See the difference?

Yes we aren't. My point was that we could reach it by following how they operate in terms of appointing coaches and team building. Bayern obviously have the luxury of monopolizing their league behind them as well but their way is successful. To elaborate my point-

-First step was appointing LVG. He integrated some academy players- Muller, Kroos, Badstuber- and gave them along with Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Alaba defined roles. Also had a say in signing Robben. Gave them a way playing. Mistakes were selling Lucio to Inter which came back bite them when Inter won the CL against them with Lucio as their best defender.

-2nd was they reappointed Heynckes. Without changing too much of the squad they already had and the playing style. They added Javi Martinez and Jupp integrated Jurgen Klopp's gegen/counter pressing tactic to a possession oriented team after finishing runners up in all competitions in his first season to superb effect. Treble.

-3rd they appointed Pep to evolve the team and win the CL again. He did evolve the team from the previous playing style to its maximum potential in terms of what was possible tactically but failed in winning the CL.

-4th they then moved on to Carlo with the obvious intention of winning another CL. Basically the final target of this great team.

My point is that this is how they progressed and specially appointed coaches based on different needs of their squad as well ti evolve it in different stages. We need to plan and progress in that way after Wenger. Its incredibly effective. Works for Barcelona as well.

And I agree, it starts with attitude, intent and ambition first of all.

 

[mm76]

Is he still here? Not even an apology from the club? Pathetic!!

people should get a ticket refund for that 'performance'

 

[Rimaal]

I had hoped to come and find that Wenger has done the honourable thing, but it seems I'm asking too much of the man.

 

[CrypticSaint]

Our entire club is at the point in 'I am Legend' when will smith has to kill his own dog after it's been bitten.

I'll cry when it happens but it has to die.

 

[Ceballinhos]

Yes we aren't. My point was that we could reach it by following how they operate in terms of appointing coaches and team building. Bayern obviously have the luxury of monopolizing their league behind them as well but their way is successful. To elaborate my point-

-First step was appointing LVG. He integrated some academy players- Muller, Kroos, Badstuber- and gave them along with Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Alaba defined roles. Also had a say in signing Robben. Gave them a way playing. Mistakes were selling Lucio to Inter which came back bite them when Inter won the CL against them with Lucio as their best defender.

-2nd was they reappointed Heynckes. Without changing too much of the squad they already had and the playing style. They added Javi Martinez and Jupp integrated Jurgen Klopp's gegen/counter pressing tactic to a possession oriented team after finishing runners up in all competitions in his first season to superb effect. Treble.

-3rd they appointed Pep to evolve the team and win the CL again. He did evolve the team from the previous playing style to its maximum potential in terms of what was possible tactically but failed in winning the CL.

-4th they then moved on to Carlo with the obvious intention of winning another CL. Basically the final target of this great team.

My point is that this is how they progressed and specially appointed coaches based on different needs of their squad as well ti evolve it in different stages. We need to plan and progress in that way after Wenger. Its incredibly effective. Works for Barcelona as well.

And I agree, it starts with attitude, intent and ambition first of all.

I agree with all you've said.
but the thing is Bayern's board might be one of the very best in Europe. We don't have that.

When their legends criticize the team they listen to them.
When Henry said we couldn't win the league by having only Giroud as a ST we've made fun of him. Wenger said it was because of his job even though it was true.

So the first step to emulate Bayern's success is to have people who care & know their stuff about football. Who are involved in our club. Who speak to the media. Who set clear targets.

Unfortunately we don't have that.
Gazidis speaks 3 times per year to the fans/media. Kroenke doesn't even care about our team. We don't even know the other members of the board lmao.

 

[Rocky]

Why, what is wrong with singing that? Why wouldn't you want things to be like a much more successful time?

Arsenal were not a much more successful club before Wenger arrived, and the main thing the fans are requesting is for him to leave. I agree that it is time for Wenger to move on, but supporters deluding themselves that it was 'their club' at any time in history, or that they were more successful in the past won't help them move forward.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

I agree with all you've said.
but the thing is Bayern's board might be one of the very best in Europe. We don't have that.

When their legends criticize the team they listen to them.
When Henry said we couldn't win the league by having only Giroud as a ST we've made fun of him. Wenger said it was because of his job even though it was true.

So the first step to emulate Bayern's success is to have people who care & know their stuff about football. Who are involved in our club. Who speak to the media. Who set clear targets.

Unfortunately we don't have that.
Gazidis speaks 3 times per year to the fans/media. Kroenke doesn't even care about our team. We don't even know the other members of the board lmao.

That is true. Our problems start at the top for sure. And you are right about Bayern having one of the very best running their club. They are filled with their ex legends and so with genuine football people with ambition. They are ever present in running their club unlike ours and pro active over every little detail. Also the coach is just the coach of the first team rather than how it is here at Arsenal with Wenger.

 

[Jasard]

Arsenal were not a much more successful club before Wenger arrived, and the main thing the fans are requesting are for him to leave. I agree that it is time for Wenger to move on, but supporters deluding themselves that it was 'their club' at any time in history, or that they were more successful in the past won't help them move forward.

I don't really get your point. We won't get those successful times again under Wenger, you can have success without him. What the fans want is to give someone else a chance in bringing us success.

"or that they were more successful in the past won't help them move forward" They don't mean before Wenger.

 

[Ceballinhos]

That is true. Our problems start at the top for sure. And you are right about Bayern having one of the very best running their club. They are filled with their ex legends and so with genuine football people with ambition. They are ever present in running their club unlike ours and pro active over every little detail. Also the coach is just the coach of the first team rather than how it is here at Arsenal with Wenger.

True.
our board has failed by giving Wenger every power & function at Arsenal.

The others big club don't do this anymore. The competition is not the same anymore.
For instance, spanish clubs have sporting directors who take care of recruiting players. That's why we became so bad at spotting young gems. Martial Dembele Dybala were all available at reasonnable prices at some point but it's like we didn't even know them.

Simeone has an entire team who are specialized in analysing other teams by watching videos of their games.

They have done what it needs to be done to make anyone replacable in their club.

If Wenger leaves this summer our board has to build a new way of running the club from scratch. I think they're scared to do this because they don't have the knowledge or experience. They won't give as much power to our next coach IMO.

 

[scytheavatar]

Yes we aren't. My point was that we could reach it by following how they operate in terms of appointing coaches and team building. Bayern obviously have the luxury of monopolizing their league behind them as well but their way is successful. To elaborate my point-

-First step was appointing LVG. He integrated some academy players- Muller, Kroos, Badstuber- and gave them along with Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Alaba defined roles. Also had a say in signing Robben. Gave them a way playing. Mistakes were selling Lucio to Inter which came back bite them when Inter won the CL against them with Lucio as their best defender.

-2nd was they reappointed Heynckes. Without changing too much of the squad they already had and the playing style. They added Javi Martinez and Jupp integrated Jurgen Klopp's gegen/counter pressing tactic to a possession oriented team after finishing runners up in all competitions in his first season to superb effect. Treble.

-3rd they appointed Pep to evolve the team and win the CL again. He did evolve the team from the previous playing style to its maximum potential in terms of what was possible tactically but failed in winning the CL.

-4th they then moved on to Carlo with the obvious intention of winning another CL. Basically the final target of this great team.

My point is that this is how they progressed and specially appointed coaches based on different needs of their squad as well ti evolve it in different stages. We need to plan and progress in that way after Wenger. Its incredibly effective. Works for Barcelona as well.

And I agree, it starts with attitude, intent and ambition first of all.

This Bayern is nothing special, they have regressed this season compared to last. Watch them crash out of the CL in the next round and you'll understand how there's no reason why we can't beat them.

 

[Rocky]

I don't think they're talking about George Grahams Arsenal when they chant that. I'm not sure why people assume they're longing for a return to those days either, although the spirit and mentality on the pitch wouldn't go amiss...I think this is a straw man created by pro Wenger supporters tbh.

I'm sure they want their winning Arsenal back. Thats all there is to it imo

But their main aim seems to be for a change of manager. Apart from Rioch who only lasted a short time, before that it was Graham.

Why is their club the one that was winning? Why isn't the one over the last decade theirs? Their best teams had Wenger as manager, they can't go back to those days.

 

[Rocky]

What the fans want is to give someone else a chance in bringing us success.

They should probably sing that rather than sing that they want their Arsenal back then. It's their song that doesn't make sense.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

This Bayern is nothing special, they have regressed this season compared to last. Watch them crash out of the CL in the next round and you'll understand how there's no reason why we can't beat them.

Maybe not. I honestly haven't watched them this season apart from against us so I can't say really. I like what they have done over the years up to this point though and not just on the pitch. Thats what my point is.

True.
our board has failed by giving Wenger every power & function at Arsenal.

The others big club don't do this anymore. The competition is not the same anymore.
For instance, spanish clubs have sporting directors who take care of recruiting players. That's why we became so bad at spotting young gems. Martial Dembele Dybala were all available at reasonnable prices at some point but it's like we didn't even know them.

Simeone has an entire team who are specialized in analysing other teams by watching videos of their games.

They have done what it needs to be done to make anyone replacable in their club.

If Wenger leaves this summer our board has to build a new way of running the club from scratch. I think they're scared to do this because they don't have the knowledge or experience. They won't give as much power to our next coach IMO.

Yeah, I agree. I really like the European way of running the club and its so successful as well. I've championed for such changes to our running of the club before.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind it if Wenger willingly took over a sporting director role for transfers and other stuff while we get a new first team coach. I think it could work great actually if Wenger's ego would allow for it. And I really don't get why we have no football people at all in high places. A club of our stature. We have so many great former players and legends.

Should be interesting viewing what happens after Wenger leaves for sure. We will get to know if our club is in good hands after all or not and if big changes at the top should me made.

 

[yybecause]

Only problem it isn't very relevant. Yes, it happened in the same game, but that is about it. It's like beating up your wife and then in front of the judge in your defence bringing up her poor cooking. Yes, both topics involve your wife but that is about it. We did not lose three times in a row 5-1 to Bayern because of the refs, injuries to Kos etc. etc. The real problem is Wenger and the board. Period! Let's not reach for straws.

It's more like you go to work, selling lemonades for example. You squeez ur lemons, mix it with sugar and water and then sell it. In the meantime, your co worker does the same....last week he sold more lemonades then you, and this time you want to beat him, cause you didnt try hard last time.
After some time you are clearly selling more and making better lemonades.
In comes your boss and for some reason he trips you intentionally and spills huge chunk of your lemonades, making you spend more energy and time to make them all over again.
You do exactly that, and soon you are still up there. You dont like the fact your boss also got your co worker another gallon of lemonades made by himself, you keep trying. Its still going relatively well, but man would you be ahead if he didnt trip you on purpose and spill all that...
You still got time, but now, ur boss is here again, and this time he takes all the lemonades you have and gives it to your co worker. No, he changes his mind. He still takes it all, gives it to him, but he also takes all ur lemons and throws it all over the street. There is a big crowd coming thirsty for lemonades, but you dont have any, and you have to pick all those lemons to make some. Crowd doesnt care, they didnt see what happened, or they dont want to see. They go to ur co worker and buy all he has. He wins, again.
Ur boss congratulates him, laughs at you.
Next week, you'll be there again. Cause you are under a contract to do so for a long time. Do you become like they are, or not, it's your own choice.

 

[Kingslayer]

Wife-beating and spilt lemonade.

Can we get any lower...?

 

[4R5Emaniac]

Wife-beating and spilt lemonade.

Can we get any lower...?

Eh?

We've been talking about your extracurricular activities btw.

 

[Makingtrax]

Missed the Bayern game and tried to avoid the score all night so could watch the recording today. That f***ing blind referee screwed us over. Nearly threw the f***ing coffee table through a 55" LG Oled.

This injustice is not the way for a legend to leave. Reminds me of the Dylan Thomas poem. 'Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day, rage rage against the dying of the light?'

Feel like saying, 'Sign the contract Wenger. F*** those idiot fans and everybody else. Get off your arse and fight old man, you're better than this.'

 

[Aevi]

It's all about squad cost boys...

Arsenal - £332m
Bayern - £312m

Lewandowski for free and getting German talent handed to them on a plate kind of helps tbf

 

[Sanchez11]

Missed the Bayern game and tried to avoid the score all night so could watch the recording today. That f***ing blind referee screwed us over. Nearly threw the f***ing coffee table through a 55" LG Oled.

This injustice is not the way for a legend to leave. Reminds me of the Dylan Thomas poem. 'Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day, rage rage against the dying of the light?'

Feel like saying, 'Sign the contract Wenger. F*** those idiot fans and everybody else. Get off your arse and fight old man, you're better than this.'

He has no fight left this is the key issue!!

 

[rich 1990]

Missed the Bayern game and tried to avoid the score all night so could watch the recording today. That f***ing blind referee screwed us over. Nearly threw the f***ing coffee table through a 55" LG Oled.

This injustice is not the way for a legend to leave. Reminds me of the Dylan Thomas poem. 'Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day, rage rage against the dying of the light?'

Feel like saying, 'Sign the contract Wenger. F*** those idiot fans and everybody else. Get off your arse and fight old man, you're better than this.'

He was better than this. He's not anymore. If he was ten years younger, I'd give him half a chance of going somewhere else and refinding his mojo. Simple fact is, he's too old, too set in his ways and too stubborn to change. If you did say sign the new contract, you'd only be saying it out of denial. He's done.