Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances

[Balboa]

That's a good question you should be asking the likes of Xhaka...... seems he doesn't understand how fortunate he is that he can make a living kicking balls. Rather than be out there collecting trash bags.

Why should I ask Xhaka that? He's there to play football. He does that professionally. Why should he expect people to pay to come and goad him?

Nonsense. Just because someone is in a privileged position, it doesn't mean that they aren't suscpetible to negative experiences and psychological problems.

 

[Steps]

Got the world's smallest violin out for Xhaka and his defenders sad over the crowd being mean to him.

Family threats and the rest are reprehensible, but he can get over the boos, and so can the rest of you.

 

[juice man]

Can’t wrap my head around the booing = bullying argument. I can understand if you’re fundamentally against booing your own side, but to construe it as bullying or a form of mental abuse is just absurd. Booing is merely demonstrating your displeasure.

This thread has been thoroughly stunk out. Someone lock for all of our benefit.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

It isn't about what are ok reactions from Xhaka

I understand you think this, but I do not agree and neither do probably most people/fans.

He was the captain and wanted to be the captain, keychain and all. Well, with that comes added responsibility. One of which is to lead by example and be the player the team and others can turn to when things are not going well.

I think we are going in circles though. I don't think we can make each other change our views, so let's call it a day. Next time Xhaka plays we have something new to discuss.

 

[Eaststander74]

So simple to you maybe. How many times have your family been threatened on Social Media? What % of times have you used Social Media and received torrents of foul abuse?

What have insults on social media got to do with it? I refuse to acknowledge such an excuse/reason to react like that. It's not valid. Sorry.

 

[Toby]

Xhaka made it as a pro footballer because he’s very talented, he got to where he is through hard work.

Think this needs to be clearer to a lot of people. Guys aren't just fortunate they became pro footballers, it's hard work and dedication, and especially for a lot of them who haven't made it early to leagues in which they earn proper wages, haven't been recruited by top flight acadamies or have already been let go by them, it's sometimes a tough decision to keep on. Stuttgart new boy Sasa Kalajdzic was playing on Austrian bum level three years ago as a 19 year old and didn't know if he'd actually make it so did some sort of engineering grade to be able to drop out and still earn money.

Both my sisters have played over the top three domestic Volleyball leagues, have been U16 German Champions, part of different Baden Wurttemberg and Germany U teams. They weren't just fortunate they became top professional athletes while studying and working on the side and maintaining a private life, they were just unfortunate there's not that much money in Volleyball.

It isn't fortunate guys like Xhaka made it, it's fortunate there's so much money in football. That's a difference.

 

[Balboa]

I understand you think this, but I do not agree and neither do probably most people/fans.

He was the captain and wanted to be the captain, keychain and all. Well, with that comes added responsibility. One of which is to lead by example and be the player the team and others can turn to when things are not going well.

I think we are going in circles though. I don't think we can make each other change our views, so let's call it a day. Next time Xhaka plays we have something new to discuss.

Ok. So what responsibility do the fans have? What is the limit of acceptability?

What has the effect of their actions been? Do you think they are making it more likely that players will want to play for Arsenal over other clubs?

Ultimately to justify the fans behaviour and say it is acceptable is to justify uncouth behaviour that harms Arsenal because "feeling of frustration", because "it's not abuse", because "we pay good money", because "Xhaka gave an interview I didn't like", because "Xhaka is paid by us", because "Xhaka is captain and we don't think he should start".

If you think that Xhaka didn't sense the fans turning on him well before that jeer I think that's highly unlikely.

 

[Balboa]

What have insults on social media got to do with it? I refuse to acknowledge such an excuse/reason to react like that. It's not valid. Sorry.

I don't know. I've never experienced abuse towards me and my family from thousands of people. I suspect all of you 'experts' who dismiss the relevance of it have no experience of it either.

 

[Mark Tobias]

you think that Xhaka didn't sense the fans turning on him well before that jeer I think that's highly unlikely.

He's an even bigger idiot if he did sense it because we saw nothing but resentment from him towards our frustration. Worst Captain since Gallas. And that says a lot.

 

[Balboa]

Can’t wrap my head around the booing = bullying argument. I can understand if you’re fundamentally against booing your own side, but to construe it as bullying or a form of mental abuse is just absurd. Booing is merely demonstrating your displeasure.

Displeasure at him doing his best. That's the point. It has been building, it undermines his ability to do his job without being embarrassed by thousands. I'm sure all you skeptics just take damage to your career or something else important to you just fine. I also expect you're all accustomed to it happening because of thousands singling you out when they are supposedly wanting the same thing you're working for.

 

[Balboa]

He's an even bigger idiot if he did sense it because we saw nothing but resentment from him towards our frustration. Worst Captain since Gallas. And that says a lot.

What was the reason for him being turned on?

 

[Mark Tobias]

What was the reason for him being turned on?

Because he has been utter garbage and makes silly mistakes on the field only to follow it up with excuses in post match interview. When a player is clearly unwilling to accept responsibility for things it angers fans.

 

[Balboa]

Because he has been utter garbage and makes silly mistakes on the field only to follow it up with excuses in post match interview. When a player is clearly unwilling to accept responsibility for things it angers fans.

He clearly hasn't been garbage, that is fiction. He plays football at a high level, against high level opposition. The manager picks him for a reason, regardless of whether or not you agree.

How do you define "silly mistakes"? Are you suggesting that he deliberately tried to cost Arsenal points?

What excuses did he make for which mistake?

 

[Big Poppa]

He clearly hasn't been garbage, that is fiction. He plays football at a high level, against high level opposition. The manager picks him for a reason, regardless of whether or not you agree.

How do you define "silly mistakes"? Are you suggesting that he deliberately tried to cost Arsenal points?

What excuses did he make for which mistake?

I think Mark simply means consistently avoidable errors. Unless I'm missing something I don't think there was any sort of insinuation about them being deliberate.

 

[Balboa]

I think Mark simply means consistently avoidable errors. Unless I'm missing something I don't think there was any sort of insinuation about them being deliberate.

If they were avoidable errors then why, given that you accept that Xhaka is trying his best, didn't he simply avoid them?

I'll give you my thoughts on this subject.

This is at the core of this whole problem. "Silly" and "avoidable" errors are definitions that people like to imagine and tell themselves, but which don't actually apply to these examples.

People deem these things worthy of stick in a way that they don't really think that they need to dish stick out to Özil for not putting in strong tackles, or to Chambers for not being particularly quick.

People watch these things and think "that was silly", "I wouldn't have done that", without realising how far beyond their ability Xhaka is in so many ways as a footballer. That's why he's in that situation where he makes a mistake, and you are not. You, me and most others can't even make it anywhere near to that situation.

People fail to understand that decision making is as much a difficult thing to do well and improve as is strong tackling or pace. Basically, it is excessive armchair quarter-backing and it is selfish and ignorant. By pretending these decisions are easy, it EFFECTIVELY almost accuses Xhaka of deliberately causing errors.

Granted, Xhaka isn't Liam Brady or Patrick Vieira. But that DOES NOT justify giving him stick in this way. There are ways and means that Arsenal supporters are too lazy, impatient, selfish, egotistical or ignorant to do. Protests should either be outside games, boycotting games, or boycotting merchandise. Supporters in general can't be arsed to do them. Some do, and that resulted in a response in the summer from Josh Kroenke. Some would be pleased with the last two transfer windows, but the job in hand is something akin to turning an oil tanker around, it won't happen fast. Most of the players from last FA Cup winning squad are no longer involved, that is A LOT of change in a short space of time.

 

[Garrincha]

 

[Steps]

Bud, we get it, Xhaka is your favorite, and any comment on his ability, attitude, or aptitude is one you are ready to defend at a moments notice. I admire your...tenacity, but please try to remember other people are allowed to have different opinions.

Fans are allowed to criticize players, managers, the club, and that criticism does not have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Ricardinho]

He's average compared to the majority of our starting midfielders from the Wenger era.

Not his fault he doesn't matchup to their standards but for us as fans it's frustrating to see him as the main man after four years.

We have to aim for better but in fairness we can say that for quite a few other positions as well.

 

[RacingPhoton]

If they were avoidable errors then why, given that you accept that Xhaka is trying his best, didn't he simply avoid them?

I'll give you my thoughts on this subject.

This is at the core of this whole problem. "Silly" and "avoidable" errors are definitions that people like to imagine and tell themselves, but which don't actually apply to these examples.

People deem these things worthy of stick in a way that they don't really think that they need to dish stick out to Özil for not putting in strong tackles, or to Chambers for not being particularly quick.

People watch these things and think "that was silly", "I wouldn't have done that", without realising how far beyond their ability Xhaka is in so many ways as a footballer. That's why he's in that situation where he makes a mistake, and you are not. You, me and most others can't even make it to that situation.

People fail to understand that decision making is as much a difficult thing to do well and improve as is pace. Basically, it is excessive armchair quarter-backing and it is selfish and ignorant. By pretending these decisions are easy, it EFFECTIVELY almost accuses Xhaka of deliberately causing errors.

Granted, Xhaka isn't Liam Brady or Patrick Vieira. But that DOES NOT justify giving him stick in this way. There are ways and means that Arsenal supporters are too lazy, impatient, selfish, egotistical or ignorant to do. Protests should either be outside games, boycotting games, or boycotting merchandise. Supporters in general can't be arsed to do them. Some do, and that resulted in a response in the summer from Josh Kroenke. Some would be pleased with the last two transfer windows, but the job in hand is something akin to turning an oil tanker around, it won't happen fast. Most of the players from last FA Cup squad are no longer involved, that is A LOT of change in a short space of time.

Errors leading to goals and penalties conceded are numbers which quantify the mistakes. The fact that he has a record for it shows that he is more prone to these mistakes than others at the same level. We are just people watching the game and commenting. Obviously we are not as good as him in football. But this record clearly shows that he is worse compared to other players in the league?
A typical Xhaka fan's response to this is that the problem lies with the manager/team. The answer to that is he made such mistakes under Wenger and also in Swiss national team.

 

[Balboa]

Bud, we get it, Xhaka is your favorite, and any comment on his ability, attitude, or aptitude is one you are ready to defend at a moments notice. I admire your...tenacity, but please try to remember other people are allowed to have different opinions.

Fans are allowed to criticize players, managers, the club, and that criticism does not have to be mutually exclusive.

I haven't said that Xhaka's ability is good enough. I've said it's not a good reason to give him unnecessary stick.

I haven't even said his response was acceptable, just understandable.

I acknowledge that people are entitled to hold their opinions, hence I am debating with them in an attempt to expose flaws in those opinions with which I disagree. I haven't tried to stop anyone from giving their opinions. Far from it, I have engaged and responded my best. In doing so I have clearly acknowledged those differing opinions.