Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

Arseblog was one of the longest, and most vociferous online supporters of Wenger in the face of steadily increasing anti-Wenger sentiment. For you to lump him in the same 'Wenger out' catergory as AFTV shows a gargantuan lack of knowledge about a subject that you have preached about on an almost daily basis.

If you got that wrong then it would be remiss of us not to at least consider what else you are getting wrong.

Well let’s say from your perspective, because by your own admission you’ve been a rabid ‘Wenger Out’ for many years even before he finished 2nd in the league. Why, who knows?

Look, I get it mate, you don’t want to face stats like that because it makes you look a fool. I feel for you. You probably thought any manager would be an improvement even with these owners. But it’s been a shock seeing us mid table a couple of managers on, and now your lashing out at the bloke who told you years ago how good Wenger really was, even if he was a ‘sock puppet’ or whatever I seem to remember you calling me.

 

[Finesse]

Do you watch enough Brighton game @HairSprayGooners ?

Brighton under Potter is a prime example of team can still playing good football and create chances even with average players. They can create chances but can’t finish them.

This is what I am struggling to reconcile. What makes these players average. They can effectively do what most of our players cannot do. Do you not think we have to go back to our initial perception of what and who is average or not simply because they play for Brighton and not Arsenal?

 

[goonergaz]

Everyone is acting like we need Thursday night football. It's renowned for being a strain on teams and often will put you at a disadvantage with a day less to recover.

Maybe what we actually need is a season where we can just concentrate on the League - as much as we may want to be in it maybe it will be a blessing in disguise, with the summer window we will know for sure where Kroenke stands...and let's be honest here, he's invested a lot of money in buying the club so its in his interest to ensure he looks after it.

So, if we don't qualify and Kroenke doesn't get his cheque book out then we know exactly where to vent our frustrations, if he backs Arteta and things don't improve then he's a gonner (if he's still around by end of the season).

If we finish 10th and it’s ok, then surely finish 8th the year after should be seen as improvement and heading the right direction? Right infront of our eyes the standards has been taken down couple of levels. I’m amazed by the quickness we have gone from top 4 is not good enough to no European football is ok. It would be an absolute scandal if Arteta stays without achieving European football. The message the club send will be we are mid table and we are ok with it

It depends what his remit is. Sometimes you have to completely break something to rebuild it better and stronger...it wasn't just the dead wood it was the attitude and also I think Emery (who may well be a good manager) did some damage as the players just didn't seem to understand what he wanted, so Arteta has come into a much less stable scenario than Emery did.

I get what you are saying regarding the message sent by falling out even from EL football and still keeping the manager. It will be rationalised though with excuses while saying being out of EL football is unacceptable but Arteta is still the person to dig the club out of the mess. I just look at AMN, Chambers, Torreira, Guendouzi, and more recently Martinelli as cases of inefficient use of resources he could have had at his disposal. For a long time Pepe was sidelined also. I excuse the Özil case as I would have done the same, and also Saliba, although messing up the loan last summer was inexcusable. Willian also is a case of wastage of resources and keeping on trying to get things to work with Willian has affected tine and development for other players.

There are some weird things that have happened for sure, and maybe this is just down to inexperience or maybe he's been given free reign to 'fix' things.

We've not had a decent run with Partey yet - Xhaka (for me) is still a liability, rash tackles in dangerous areas - silly cards and lazy passes which cost us goals (or at least chances against). We've shown flashes of improvement, but nothing consistent and all compounded by Auba all of a sudden being off form which no-one could have predicted and that is ultimately costing the team.

 

[Riou]

I have to say...considering all you "Arteta Outers" thought he would be getting us relegated this year, since we are finishing well clear of that (and won a cheeky Community Shield too) I think he has proved you all wrong already!

Successful year, regardless what happens the rest of it, imo.

The best part is, Arteta is a more successful coach than Pochettino right now (least until Poochie wins the league this season)

Seriously though, I have kinda half given up at this stage (have a little hope for the Europa though) just want to get to next season now.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

A lot of our players are not good enough to play here. Arteta isn't getting the best out of them though, just like Wenger wasn't before him.

My man Hector was the best right back in the league under Arsène, and now he can't do anything right. Arteta out, fam!

 

[Lidl_Reed]

I have to say...considering all you "Arteta Outers" thought he would be getting us relegated this year, since we are finishing well clear of that (and won a cheeky Community Shield too) I think he has proved you all wrong already!

Successful year, regardless what happens the rest of it, imo.

Lmao, this is what Arteta has reduced you to

 

[AbouCuéllar]

You’re not still flogging this? Look, you’re assertion that the league is tougher for Arteta as evidenced by how well English teams are doing in Europe is a busted flush.

Lol, only you would be capable of negating evidence that clear...

I must be living in an alternative universe, where clear trends in quality of leagues that are talked about by every single analyst of European football don't exist

Anyways, 2007-12 is totally dodging the whole force of the argument, haha. First of all because I think Wenger was still a top manager from 2007-10. Second of all, because we're not talking about those years at all, lol? (Thirdly, England was better at the top half in those days, but the league wasn't nearly as complete from top to bottom as it since Guardiola and Klopp and Poch and Nuno migrated to England and increased the tactical level-- City still wasn't a super club, Leicester was nothing, Wolves was nothing, the league was quite top heavy, but our competition for 4th remained rather weak)

 

[Makingtrax]

I have to say...considering all you "Arteta Outers" thought he would be getting us relegated this year, since we are finishing well clear of that (and won a cheeky Community Shield too) I think he has proved you all wrong already!

Successful year, regardless what happens the rest of it, imo.

That’s like saying you’re luck to only lose your leg at the knee instead of the whole leg.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

The best part is, Arteta is a more successful coach than Pochettino right now (least until Poochie wins the league this season)

I have kinda half given up at this stage (have a little hope for the Europa though) just want to get to next season now.

Can't wait for Xhaka-Elneny next season

 

[goonergaz]

I think a lot of fans just became bored and frustrated after such a long tenure and wanted change, maybe change for the sake of change in hindsight. I think it's a fairly natural reaction to be honest.

Sometimes the grass just isn't greener though. That's a lesson to learn.

I will say this though. If we'd have replaced Wenger with someone like Klopp when he was available or another manager of that calibre, we'd probably not being romanticizing finishing 4th under Wenger in his latter years, the way we are currently.

The quality of the football had dropped dramatically from 'the good old days' - we were no longer exciting to watch, we no longer had games where you could at least appreciate the good football on show.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

That’s like saying you’re luck to only lose your leg at the knee instead of the whole leg.

It's like saying you're lucky to start Ceballos because your other option was Elneny

 

[Makingtrax]

Lol, only you would be capable of negating evidence that clear...

I must be living in an alternative universe, where clear trends in quality of leagues that are talked about by every single analyst of European football don't exist

I only look at data bro. You’ll get over it.

 

[Makingtrax]

Lol, only you would be capable of negating evidence that clear...

I must be living in an alternative universe, where clear trends in quality of leagues that are talked about by every single analyst of European football don't exist

Anyways, 2007-12 is totally dodging the whole force of the argument, haha. First of all because I think Wenger was still a top manager from 2007-10. Second of all, because we're not talking about those years at all, lol? (Thirdly, England was better at the top half in those days, but the league wasn't nearly as complete from top to bottom as it since Guardiola and Klopp and Poch and Nuno migrated to England and increased the tactical level-- City still wasn't a super club, Leicester was nothing, Wolves was nothing, the league was quite top heavy, but our competition for 4th remained rather weak)

You only think teams like Wolves, Everton, Villa etc are better clubs now because we’re mid table and in amongst them. When we were top 4 every year those teams below weren’t considered. It was frustration at not being able to beat teams spending a lot more. It’s all about perspective.

 

[UnitedBeard]

This is what I am struggling to reconcile. What makes these players average. They can effectively do what most of our players cannot do. Do you not think we have to go back to our initial perception of what and who is average or not simply because they play for Brighton and not Arsenal?

Average or not average is not the thing you should focus on. Ask yourself, why Brighton has better xG than arsenal?

Would you straight swap Pepe, Aubameyang, Lacazatte, Bellerin & Saka with Mac Allister, Trossard, Maupay, Veltman & Alzate?

 

[Finesse]

Even if AMN was not going to turn out to be an acceptable CM (tbd) can anyone justify the constant playing of Bellerin without giving AMN a sniff of a chance, only a one-off chance at LB where he was understandably rusty? I’m not talking about pecking order, instead at least sensible rotation where you build up two players at the same time to ably and confidently cover the position. It isn’t really as if Bellerin has been anything special this season.

Some here in my view still need a lightbulb moment in questioning whether Arteta is short with his squad in part due to his own decisions and squad management. As a result we are stuck with Bellerin, Cedric, and Tierney for the two full back positions when we are playing matches every three days and Tierney is struggling with his fitness. There are similar cases for CM and other positions on the pitch. We probably do need a better squad for Top 4, but not to expect us to remain at EL (Top 6 or FA Cup win) level. We’re thin on options and backup primarily due to Arteta himself.

@Iceman10 .. Bellerin is the best we have got. Meaning as much as he is not fully adept to offer the dynamism , speed , guile of KT levels as a full back , he is better than AMN and Cedric. The way Arteta wants us to play has further exposed Bellerin's deficiency. The only full back in the club offering that kind of capacity is KT. It is what we saw Cancello and Zinchenko do last weekend. Not only do they pin down our full backs , the respective wide players in Sterling and Mahrez move around and are efficient in and out of possession.

Arteta is a young manager and made his teething mistakes. The FA Cup triumph climbed into his head and naturally so. He is human. His stance on Özil and missing out on Aouar forced him to try something different from what he planned during the summer. Relying on Willian as the tonic and trying different formations to that effect. It nearly cost him this job. We all saw it happen. He found a silver bullet in ESR when his hands were forced and since then it worked for him and the team.

I consider he is young manager and learning his trade. So I ask myself has he learned from the earlier setback? All managers do and it reflects on decisions thereafter. . From December I think he has. Willian is no longer a starter. ESR is now fully in the team. He brought in MO and is using him with ESR. There is a desire to solve the attacking nucleus and create a rhythm. Arteta has solved the defensive issue. Give credit where it is due. Now he must find the rhythm in attack and you can see signs of it. I am a big critic of Arteta but I am also objective. This is football. Now how are some of the players raising their bars to meet him half way? Auba , Laca , Pepe etc A vintage Auba would have put to bed the Benfica tie with a hattrick. Is that entirely the Manager's fault? Watch the misses and see how we carved open Benfica...does the Manager not get credit too for it?

@Iceman10 bro we are an okay squad with a very few top players , but the rest are very average and it reflects on how we play. Watch our build up and the system is there...you see what the manager wants...but in the execution , you see individual errors and deficiencies negate it. ESR and Saka always show the class and keep improving because they are individually good enough for the way we play.

 

[Rasmi]

2 weeks ago when villa beat us he said this lool. Even if the results were good I just can’t warm to the guy. He carries himself like he was this great player and great manager

 

[Finesse]

Average or not average is not the thing you should focus on. Ask yourself, why Brighton has better xG than arsenal?

Would you straight swap Pepe, Aubameyang, Lacazatte, Bellerin & Saka with Mac Allister, Trossard, Maupay, Veltman & Alzate?

A straight swap is you kicking the ball into the tall grass. My issue is with how we can confidently call players average because they play for Brighton. Then the next minute we are crying to buy them into our team.

 

[UnitedBeard]

A straight swap is you kicking the ball into the tall grass. My issue is with how we can confidently call players average because they play for Brighton. Then the next minute we are crying to buy them into our team.

Again, average or not average is not the issue here. Why are you focusing on that?

People have different definition of average and I use it because @HairSprayGooners use the average and not good enough players as excuses to defend arteta.

So let me ask you again, would you straight swap Pepe, Aubameyang, Lacazatte, Bellerin & Saka with Mac Allister, Trossard, Maupay, Veltman & Alzate?

 

[AbouCuéllar]

I only look at data bro. You’ll get over it.

Says the guy who completely ignores the data presented to him

 

[Gunners1616]

There is almost nothing to enjoy about Arteta' team and tactics. I'm still hoping we get rid of him at the end of the season somehow.

He has normalized "losing" for the club. Before it use to be a big deal when we lost a match and the media and the fans would be all over Wenger's or Emery's throat.

Now we keep losing like it's nothing and no ones cares. Arteta even smiles in post-match interviews after defeats. He seems untouchable while having no CV. Even Lampard didn't resist so long despite his "legend" status.

Mikel took wayyyy too many bad decisions to be given so much credit.

I would have liked to see:

-AMN playing RB
-Chambers given a serious chance, he was one of our best performer before his injury, both as a CB and a RB
-Saliba given a chance
-Guendouzi given a second chance
-Lacazette and Martinelli given more opportunities to play with Saka/ESR/Ødegaard.

The list goes on and on. There is no way he can justify 11 losses in 25 games with a squad so big and so many options.