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Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

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Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
Thomas Khun's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions book is excellent on that theme of challenges to established ways of thinking. He coined the term paradigm shift in it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

I think we're seeing it a paradigm shift in reality with regards Wenger.

Emirate's years paradigm - Wenger's a cretin, look at him playing kids and selling all his best players and buying no one and being smug with fourth in the league. "Arsenal are a million miles from winning a trophey" - Michael Owen in 2013.

New data comes in: Wenger buys Özil Alexis etc

Old paradigm reaction: yeah but they were opportunistic buys to get season tickets sold. He should buy Messi to prove he's serious.

New data: Wins FA Cups.

Old paradigm reaction: cups are a joke.

New data: finishes second.

Old paradigm: yeah but Leicester won the league so Wenger's clown.

New data: plays Alexis and Theo

Old paradigm: he's lost it totally lost it.

New data: Arsenal are joint top.

New paradigm: There's only one Arsène Wenger!

When you add context and are able to acknowledge the clubs history of the last 10 years, all the 'old paradigms' are valid, apart from the weak, convenient, obscure and non-existent ones you've chosen ('there's only one Arsène Wenger...? )

While the book may be excellent, I don't think you've done a good job in relating this paradigm shift to Wengers situation. Actually, I don't think it can be done, but there's no harm in trying. It's fun. :D
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
Strawman. This is not being done. It's about Wenger.
Strawman:lol:
If like some fans, you say Wenger's clueless, the board are money grabbing f***s and the players (particularly Giroud, Walcott and Ramsey) are useless donkeys and coming second is a clusterf*** . . . what would you call that 'supporting'? :eek:

Off to Cornwall now mate . . will give St Austell's brewery a try.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
Strawman:lol:
If like some fans, you say Wenger's clueless, the board are money grabbing f***s and the players (particularly Giroud, Walcott and Ramsey) are useless donkeys and coming second is a clusterf*** . . . what would you call that 'supporting'? :eek:

Off to Cornwall now mate . . will give St Austell's brewery a try.
Im actually ok with the board at the moment, because Wenger is clearly being given sufficient funds to make a go of winning stuff--something you and other have denied to be the case in the past :lol: That one died, thankfully.

As you know, I'm a big fan of Theo and Rambo too--not so much Giroud, but I've always maintained he's been very good value.

Enjoy the scenes and the beer :drool: And try not to drown, you'll be sorely missed. Watch those pesky riptides. Remember, swim parallel to the beach and out. :cool:
 
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Doom

Active Member
:lol::lol:

Being a Gooner is truly horrible at times.

Would you have it any other way?

I'm sorry I couldn't find you the exact article about last season.

I'm wondering if I might have misremembered and con-fused two similar articles.

As you go to the games, do you think you can see a marked improvement in the quality of our play?

It's hard on tv to work out what's going on away from the ball.
 

A$AP Rocky

Member
I absolutely love this club and the way we are going. We were in serious debt and Arsène keep us in the champions League with players like Almunia, Chamakh, Senderos, Denilson, Squillaci, Santos and Bendtner. Fecking Bendtner.

We have built up a new stadium and are now starting to buy world class players like Özil, Alexis, Cech, Mustafi and Xhaka. We have a big and strong squad, the stongest for years.

Even tho we've had some difficult times, our club values have been kept alive and we are doing things the Arsenal way. The Board have strong belief in the manager, and the manager have strong belief in the players. Its so good to see players like Walcott step up and repay the trust from Arsène Wenger. We could have spent 35 millions on a fecking memphis depay, but we trust our own players. We now have a good combo in trusting own players and buying new players.

Give the old man a new contract!
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Would you have it any other way?


I'm sorry I couldn't find you the exact article about last season.


I'm wondering if I might have misremembered and con-fused two similar articles.


As you go to the games, do you think you can see a marked improvement in the quality of our play?


It's hard on tv to work out what's going on away from the ball.

I wouldn't say I'm a regular I just try to catch a few games a season. Unfortunately the game was too tense for me to focus on off the ball movement but I did notice that the way we play can often result in a fullback/winger in tons of space and surprisingly, we would rarely find said player. Theo was through on goals quite a few times and that’s something that may have been missed on the TV. A simple pass back to a passer like Xhaka who could launch a fast diagonal to Theo could have been deadly.

Overall we look better as a team and the only reason we’re not getting the hype of Man City is because we have this habit of making silly decisions which tend to get worse when we’re winning which prevents the tell-tale emphatic scorelines and comprehensive victories of a ‘title favourite’.

One example – and the worst of the bunch imo - was the one near the end of the game with Gibbs and Ox around the halfway line with 2 or 3 Swansea defenders back.

There were multiple errors there. The first being that Theo was constantly readjusting his run to be on the last man's shoulder, the second being that Gibbs tried to play a rolled pass towards Theo. It's as if both players were unaware of the fact they had a good 50 yards of open space behind them, Gibbs just had to play an average lobbed pass in behind and Theo could have been 10 yards in front of the defender and still have gotten to the ball for a 1v1 with the keeper.

There was also another situation where Bellerin was charging forward into a 3v3 (or something similar) situation. The crowd played a part in pressuring him into releasing the ball forward to Özil early which subsequently changed our 3v3 attack into a more manageable 2v3 which subsequently fizzled out. You’re always taught that the ball is faster than the man but this was definitely a situation where Bellerin should have held the ball and drawn the midfielder towards him.

I’ve always said that a lot of the little mistakes - something as small as incorrect weight on a 10 yard pass - we make early in the build-up can have a large overall impact in our play. It’s no surprise that with players like Xhaka and Cazorla (maybe that’s why we’ve moved Coquelin up the pitch perhaps?) in deep midfield we’re making less of these and are transitioning better than we have in a while; unfortunately we’re still messing up a lot of these transitions when our talented midfielders aren’t on the ball.

If we can fix some of the very basic errors in decision making then we’ll be a force - and that’s not even taking into account the chances that we miss when we actually complete a transition without messing it up. :lol:
 
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carlito'sway

Established Member
I wouldn't say I'm a regular I just try to catch a few games a season. Unfortunately the game was too tense for me to focus on off the ball movement but I did notice that the way we play can often result in a fullback/winger in tons of space and surprisingly, we would rarely find said player. Theo was through on goals quite a few times and that’s something that may have been missed on the TV. A simple pass back to a passer like Xhaka who could launch a fast diagonal to Theo could have been deadly.

Overall we look better as a team and the only reason we’re not getting the hype of Man City is because we have this habit of making silly decisions which tend to get worse when we’re winning which prevents the tell-tale emphatic scorelines and comprehensive victories of a ‘title favourite’.

One example – and the worst of the bunch imo - was the one near the end of the game with Gibbs and Ox around the halfway line with 2 or 3 Swansea defenders back.

There were multiple errors there. The first being that Theo was constantly readjusting his run to be on the last man's shoulder, the second being that Gibbs tried to play a rolled pass towards Theo. It's as if both players were unaware of the fact they had a good 50 yards of open space behind them, Gibbs just had to play an average lobbed pass in behind and Theo could have been 10 yards in front of the defender and still have gotten to the ball for a 1v1 with the keeper.


There was also another situation where Bellerin was charging forward into a 3v3 (or something similar) situation. The crowd played a part in pressuring him into releasing the ball forward to Özil early which subsequently changed our 3v3 attack into a more manageable 2v3 which subsequently fizzled out. You’re always taught that the ball is faster than the man but this was definitely a situation where Bellerin should have held the ball and drawn the midfielder towards him.


I’ve always said that a lot of the little mistakes - something as small as incorrect weight on a 10 yard pass - we make early in the build-up can have a large overall impact in our play. It’s no surprise that with players like Xhaka and Cazorla (maybe that’s why we’ve moved Coquelin up the pitch perhaps?) in deep midfield we’re making less of these and are transitioning better than we have in a while; unfortunately we’re still messing up a lot of these transitions when our talented midfielders aren’t on the ball.

If we can fix some of the very basic errors in decision making then we’ll be a force - and that’s not even taking into account the chances that we miss when we actually complete a transition without messing it up. :lol:

Good post mate. I am surprised you managed to notice that much with the pressure and the tension at the game. Watching it on TV was nerve wracking. Hope I will not have to go through that many of them this season.
Having said that though, I have found it is easier to handle the pressure in the stadium with fans than at a Bar or on a couch.
 
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Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Good post mate. I am surprised you managed to notice that much with the pressure and the tension at the game. Watching it on TV was nerve wracking. Hope I will not have to go through that many of them this season.
Having said that though, I have found it is easier to handle the pressure in the stadium with fans than at a Bar or on a couch.
Definitely. The fact you're all suffering together probably plays a part.:lol:
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
How was the general atmosphere at the grounds?
Good actually. Must be due to the recent results, we really got behind the team whenever Swansea would peg one back and the atmosphere was generally good throughout. It created an air of invincibility, even though Swansea had us on the ropes at times we never felt like the result was in danger.

When I say we I mean the non-tourists. That's why most stadiums in the south of England are relatively quiet especially when you're a big club. We tend to complain a lot about our atmosphere but I don't think it's fair. There are fans who have come to visit from China who have spent more money on Arsenal than I have.

Just because they don't know the traditional chants and can't get behind the team in the way we want them to doesn't make them any less of a fan than we are.

The real problem are the tourists who give no ****s about football and are there purely to say they've been there. I would never let them in but then that becomes an ethical and human rights debate...

Got completely sidetracked there. As you can see I'm having a very productive day at work.:lol:
 

Doom

Active Member
Good actually. Must be due to the recent results, we really got behind the team whenever Swansea would peg one back and the atmosphere was generally good throughout. It created an air of invincibility, even though Swansea had us on the ropes at times we never felt like the result was in danger.

When I say we I mean the non-tourists. That's why most stadiums in the south of England are relatively quiet especially when you're a big club. We tend to complain a lot about our atmosphere but I don't think it's fair. There are fans who have come to visit from China who have spent more money on Arsenal than I have.

Just because they don't know the traditional chants and can't get behind the team in the way we want them to doesn't make them any less of a fan than we are.

The real problem are the tourists who give no ****s about football and are there purely to say they've been there. I would never let them in but then that becomes an ethical and human rights debate...

Got completely sidetracked there. As you can see I'm having a very productive day at work.:lol:

Those two posts have been great. Trilly the Arsenal-Whisperer :eek:
 

carlito'sway

Established Member
Good actually. Must be due to the recent results, we really got behind the team whenever Swansea would peg one back and the atmosphere was generally good throughout. It created an air of invincibility, even though Swansea had us on the ropes at times we never felt like the result was in danger.

When I say we I mean the non-tourists. That's why most stadiums in the south of England are relatively quiet especially when you're a big club. We tend to complain a lot about our atmosphere but I don't think it's fair. There are fans who have come to visit from China who have spent more money on Arsenal than I have.

Just because they don't know the traditional chants and can't get behind the team in the way we want them to doesn't make them any less of a fan than we are.

The real problem are the tourists who give no ****s about football and are there purely to say they've been there. I would never let them in but then that becomes an ethical and human rights debate...

Got completely sidetracked there. As you can see I'm having a very productive day at work.:lol:

Good to know. The last couple of times I went to the Emirates is was pretty sedated with a lot of tourists taking selfies....:lol:
Having said that though, this is not the only stadium where tourists galore. In Argentina, a lot of tour companies regularly take tourists to La Bonbonera, the mythical Boca Stadium. However the ambience is still extraordinary there, despite the number of foreigners coming to the stadium just for the sake of being there.
Boca Juniors fans clubs still have their assigned sections at the stadium where they can still continue to create an amazing football experience and environment.
PSG is trying doing something similar with their former Ultras fans club (they were banned) by assigning a specific section at the Parc to them so they can bring a proper support to the team. It will be up to AFC to do the same, coz the Emirates is really way too quiet.
 

OSOA

Member
Take the team as far as possible in the CL and don't let them fall apart in Feb/Mar, then leave in the summer while everyone is positive.

Knowing the old geezer he'll do another 3 years though
 
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