Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[RacingPhoton]

I disagree. The fans have as much blame to take as the board along with Wenger and the team. The infighting was embarassing along with the planes, banners, protests. Our club became a laughing stock across the country. If you are going to go to the game then at least give your all during the game by singing and supporting the players ESPECIALLY when things are bad. Yes, the performances were frustrating at times, but we could have done better as a fan base to get behind the team when our backs were against the wall.

Fans were behind the team all these years. Did anything change? No.
This is not something that happened in a single season. It is the frustration that developed over all these years. If Wenger does the same mistakes over and over again and expect the fans to cheer him, it is his mistake. Do you really think he would have changed the tactics without all the fan protests? Fans wanted change. They asked for it. They started protesting only after we knew that winning the league was totally out of reach.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Oh and how can I forget our very own Alexis Sanchez. 17 across all comps last season and has 29 across all comps this season.

Still not answering the question. And I am not refuting your attempt at an answer either. While the stats can seriously improve any argument you make, the question was whether the players have improved. You have to actually watch them to tell that. Stats mean **** all if you haven't.

 

[Dokaka]

You can't put a piece of aluminium foil between Moyes, LVG and Mourinho in terms of outcome measured against financial input. All finished on a similar number of points and a similar position in the league.

Moyes was sacked, the others weren't. He was no worse.

I'm sorry, but that's utter nonsense.

Moyes took over a squad which had just won the title in dominating fashion. He then forced his HORRENDOUS brand of football on a team used to playing fast attacking football with great individual flair. The man was so deluded that he told a 6x PL and former CL winner to study Phil ****ing Jagielka. What Moyes did absolutely ruined Man Utd; he completely took away their winning mentality that carried them for so many years by forcing his brand of perpetual underdog football on them. I mean ffs he was so helpless in the transfer market that he spent an entire window on signing Fellaini. It was embarrassing.

Van Gaal came in and saved the ship from sinking completely, but it was clear that there was no long term plan and the fans didn't really enjoy his brand of football. Then Mourinho became available and he's now laying the groundwork for a permanent league contender.

The damage Moyes did to Man Utd isn't gone yet. He botched the job to the point where he became a laughing stock and now got relegated with Sunderland.

 

[Wilshere10]

Oh and how can I forget our very own Alexis Sanchez. 17 across all comps last season and has 29 across all comps this season.

Walcott can't even get in the team currently. Özil has had a poor season compared to his last. Sanchez is world class, playing up front he has scored more goals. Ox has improved, fair enough, but that's about it.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Fans were behind the team all these years. Did anything change? No.
This is not something that happened in a single season. It is the frustration that developed over all these years. If Wenger does the same mistakes over and over again and expect the fans to cheer him, it is his mistake. Do you really think he would have changed the tactics without all the fan protests? Fans wanted change. They asked for it. They started protesting only after we knew that winning the league was totally out of reach.

Wenger has said recently he had considered 3 at the back earlier in the season. At the time though we were 4th top scorers in Europe and had the 6th best defensive record in the league, there wasn't really a need to make a drastic change. Those games against Bayern, WBA and Palace showed that we were way too open on the flanks when our full backs pushed up and we got punished for that. Since then, we have moved to 3 at the back we have become more stable, along with getting the best out of most of our players. At least give him credit for changing it. Next season we have a good foundation to work from. I'm pretty sure we can be successful with him at the helm as it seems as though we are getting the balance right with 3 at the back.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Still not answering the question. And I am not refuting your attempt at an answer either. While the stats can seriously improve any argument you make, the question was whether the players have improved. You have to actually watch them to tell that. Stats mean **** all if you haven't.

Then what are you basing your 'improvements' on?

 

[teamsoutheast]

Walcott can't even get in the team currently. Özil has had a poor season compared to his last. Sanchez is world class, playing up front he has scored more goals. Ox has improved, fair enough, but that's about it.

The numbers are there but you clearly choose to ignore them. You can also argue that the new formation has brought an 'improvement' in our full backs (Monreal, Gibbs, Bellerin).

 

[Mark Tobias]

Then what are you basing your 'improvements' on?

Actually watching them play. Let me explain to you idiots who love stats so much.
Season A:
Alexis hits the net 8 times, ball coming straight off his laces into the net.
Season B:
Alexis hits the net 10 time but off deflected shots.

Now some of you fools would then claim "Alexis had a much better season in season B", all while completely disregarding the fact that he was much worse and never actually hit the target himself but was saved by deflections. AND THIS IS WHY STATS ARE NOT THE WHOLE STORY! In fact most of the time they are utterly misleading!

**** me. I can't believe some of you don't understand this.

 

[FreakySami]

I think our defenders are good and we don't need to reinforce that much there. Our midfield needs upgrading on Coquelin ans we are already looking at that. Our wingers are actually above average with ox and Alexis. What we need is top class striker and a great midfielder and maybe another winger

 

[Mark Tobias]

Then what are you basing your 'improvements' on?

Let me pose you another example.

Team A concedes 10 goals in their season but they were all absolute beauties that no keeper in the world could get to.
Team B concedes 8 goals in their season. All through clumsy schoolboy defending that just looked a mess.

Your dumb stats answer would have you beleiving Team B are the better defenders. But if you actually watched the season you would know they are not!

@Makingtrax also doesn't seem to grasp this! Constantly citing our "best defence in the league' record of last year despite there being several games packed full of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Because of course, this game is played on a super computer calculating algorithms and not by human beings who have to keep their concentration up for 90 minutes plus.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Actually watching them play. Let me explain to you idiots who love stats so much.
Season A:
Alexis hits the net 8 times, ball coming straight off his laces into the net.
Season B:
Alexis hits the net 10 time but off deflected shots.

Now some of you fools would then claim "Alexis had a much better season in season B", all while completely disregarding the fact that he was much worse and never actually hit the target himself but was saved by deflections. AND THIS IS WHY STATS ARE NOT THE WHOLE STORY! In fact most of the time they are utterly misleading!

**** me. I can't believe some of you don't understand this.

Whether the shot comes off his head, feet, nose, shin, bum, is neither here nor there. The fact remains that it's a goal. If Sanchez won the golden boot nobody is going to ask how those goals were scored, blah blah blah. The bottom line is, he is top scorer and won the golden boot. Please debate your point and don't lower yourself to just hurling insults and referring to people as 'idots and fools'.

 

[Wilshere10]

The numbers are there but you clearly choose to ignore them. You can also argue that the new formation has brought an 'improvement' in our full backs (Monreal, Gibbs, Bellerin).

There's more to it than numbers. Özil was one of the best players in the league last season, but has been nowhere near as good this season. His stats are boosted by a hattrick against piss poor Ludogorets and him performing ok in recent weeks when the season is done.

Walcott had a decent run, but the man hasn't been able to get in the team for months. He is not improving.

Bellerin has had a poor season, almost everyone agrees on that. Monreal had a poor start by his normal reliable standards but is back in form lately, but he hasn't improved from last season. Gibbs is the same old Gibbs.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Wenger has said recently he had considered 3 at the back earlier in the season. At the time though we were 4th top scorers in Europe and had the 6th best defensive record in the league, there wasn't really a need to make a drastic change. Those games against Bayern, WBA and Palace showed that we were way too open on the flanks when our full backs pushed up and we got punished for that. Since then, we have moved to 3 at the back we have become more stable, along with getting the best out of most of our players. At least give him credit for changing it. Next season we have a good foundation to work from. I'm pretty sure we can be successful with him at the helm as it seems as though we are getting the balance right with 3 at the back.

We have been weak at the flanks for years now. It took Conte just few weeks to find the flaws in his squad and come up with a winning formation. How long has it taken for Wenger to realize? That is what it takes to become a good manager. Being pro-active in changes. Staying ahead of other teams tactically. Won't take long for teams to decode this formation too. Will he adapt to it immediately? Football dynamics have started changing every year. But Wenger is too much reluctant to adapt to these changes. He always needed something drastic to happen, to even contemplate making changes.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Whether the shot comes off his head, feet, nose, shin, bum, is neither here nor there. The fact remains that it's a goal. If Sanchez won the golden boot nobody is going to ask how those goals were scored, blah blah blah. The bottom line is, he is top scorer and won the golden boot. Please debate your point and don't lower yourself to just hurling insults and referring to people as 'idots and fools'.

But he hasn't actually improved as a player.. The stats just suggest he has. He could have aimed every shot for the corner flag and got lucky.... How is that improving.

The question was, have they improved. Not how many goals have they scored. They are two completely different answers.

 

[Mark Tobias]

There's more to it than numbers. Özil was one of the best players in the league last season, but has been nowhere near as good this season. His stats are boosted by a hattrick against piss poor Ludogorets and him performing ok in recent weeks when the season is done.

Walcott had a decent run, but the man hasn't been able to get in the team for months. He is not improving.

Bellerin has had a poor season, almost everyone agrees on that. Monreal had a poor start by his normal reliable standards but is back in form lately, but he hasn't improved from last season. Gibbs is the same old Gibbs.

No point arguing with someone who clearly doesn't watch the full season and just refers to the stats to judge a player.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Oh and how can I forget our very own Alexis Sanchez. 17 across all comps last season and has 29 across all comps this season.

How many times did he give the ball away last season and how many times this season. You're using one stat to argue a point which relates to every aspect of footballing ability. I say again, you clearly don't understand this game.

 

[Mark Tobias]

But before I derail this. When is this meeting on his future? Might as well close until then. Open for half an hour of venting when he announces the new deal and then wait two years to open it again.

 

[teamsoutheast]

But he hasn't actually improved as a player.. The stats just suggest he has. He could have aimed every shot for the corner flag and got lucky.... How is that improving.

A player is only as good as the system he is playing in. Let's take Özil for instance. His goal scoring record is in fact better here than it was at Real Madrid. So you can argue that he has 'improved' his goal scoring rate, or that aspect of his game. This new system has also allowed more players to be ahead of him which brings out his main strength, creatvity and vision. I guarantee if we start off with 3 at the back next season Özil's numbers will improve drastically. The 4-2-3-1 in my opinion is not suited to Özil as he is more of a creative playmaker than a Trequartista.

 

[Mark Tobias]

A player is only as good as the system he is playing in. Let's take Özil for instance. His goal scoring record is in fact better here than it was at Real Madrid. So you can argue that he has 'improved' his goal scoring rate, or that aspect of his game. This new system has also allowed more players to be ahead of him which brings out his main strength, creatvity and vision. I guarantee if we start off with 3 at the back next season Özil's numbers will improve drastically. The 4-2-3-1 in my opinion is not suited to Özil as he is more of a creative playmaker than a Trequartista.

You're going off on a tangent mate. The question was simple. Have the players improved? Not have any of the players improved aspects of their game. Özil may have increased his goal tally, but his assist tally has dropped. Overall he hasn't really improved. He has balanced his game out a bit more, yes.

Just from ACTUALLY WATCHING HIM PLAY you can see he hasn;t had as good of a season. Although, I will admit, I had him down as one to be the hero of the season from early November.

 

[teamsoutheast]

How many times did he give the ball away last season and how many times this season. You're using one stat to argue a point which relates to every aspect of footballing ability. I say again, you clearly don't understand this game.

What does Alexis giving the ball away have to do with him scoring goals?