Country: England
Sign Xhaka, swap Coquelin for Kante. Dominate everything.
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Francis Coquelin: No Longer Needed?
- Thread starter a_fourteen
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Country: England
BBF
Real name: Ragip Xh...
Country: England
You think he'll improve his technique in 2-4 years time? I don't. Even our boss has said numerous amounts of times that if you don't have the raw ability at a young age you probably won't in later years.
Country: England
So many people are going to take this the wrong way but Flamini in his first stint was arguably a better versiom of Coquelin.
Their roles were identical, the only difference being that Flamini did it all over the pitch and somewhat contributed in attack while Coquelin is much more defensive minded and a better pure ball winner.
I think the fact that Flamini played in a midfield three sums up why Coquelin is too limited to play in a midfield two with the current midfielders we have.
I don't really know why this is still a debate, but I think we've been starved of an aggressive ball-winner for so long that we effectively believe that we need one at all times to succeed. Coquelin comes along and he's a hero. In all honesty, I like Coquelin a lot and he starts in any midfield we can put out at the moment.
But let's be real here. If we really want to become an elite trophy-winning team (league/CL), we are going to need a player with a more technically sound skillset than Coquelin is currently capable of, in addition to Coquelin himself. It's not a new argument - even in my support of Coquelin it's something I've believed. I fell into the narrative of us needing powerful DMs who tackle and pass simple years before. But if you watch the bigger teams, they do not use those kind of players as starters often these days. And even if they are physically superior, they also have other technical traits to augment their physicality.
Coquelin is a decent passer of the ball, and handy at dribbling his way out of trouble. That alone should make him a very important squad player to go with his ball-winning. Ultimately though, if we're crafting an elite XI, I don't think he would be an automatic choice in it, if we're signing players. Elneny's short time in our midfield, despite the unspectacular nature of his signing, shows how much more functional our midfield can be with someone who can pass decently and quickly as well as have enough of an understanding about space to be able to exploit it and help the team move up the pitch.
But every midfield combination we field is basically 2 men doing the job of one midfielder - and we wonder why our midfield is so imbalanced. Coq/Caz was functional and worked, but essentially they were no different. Arteta was the closest we have come to that midfielder in recent years, and he was in the twilight of his career as we now know. Unless we move to a 3-man midfield, this will keep happening until we sign ONE guy who is capable of distributing and defending in midfield. Not one guy doing one, while the other guy does the other. Because that means either way, one player is going to be the passenger in either phase of play. So far, Coquelin has been that passenger since breaking through. He uses himself as a decoy rather than helping build up moves, he is sometimes actively avoided. It's only at the beginning of this season/end of last where he began to take more touches.
This is not to belittle Coquelin - I still think he's an important contributor, but I do not agree with the assertion that a player in his mould is our way to an elite team unless that player in his mould is also capable of distributing and aiding our attack as well.
But let's be real here. If we really want to become an elite trophy-winning team (league/CL), we are going to need a player with a more technically sound skillset than Coquelin is currently capable of, in addition to Coquelin himself. It's not a new argument - even in my support of Coquelin it's something I've believed. I fell into the narrative of us needing powerful DMs who tackle and pass simple years before. But if you watch the bigger teams, they do not use those kind of players as starters often these days. And even if they are physically superior, they also have other technical traits to augment their physicality.
Coquelin is a decent passer of the ball, and handy at dribbling his way out of trouble. That alone should make him a very important squad player to go with his ball-winning. Ultimately though, if we're crafting an elite XI, I don't think he would be an automatic choice in it, if we're signing players. Elneny's short time in our midfield, despite the unspectacular nature of his signing, shows how much more functional our midfield can be with someone who can pass decently and quickly as well as have enough of an understanding about space to be able to exploit it and help the team move up the pitch.
But every midfield combination we field is basically 2 men doing the job of one midfielder - and we wonder why our midfield is so imbalanced. Coq/Caz was functional and worked, but essentially they were no different. Arteta was the closest we have come to that midfielder in recent years, and he was in the twilight of his career as we now know. Unless we move to a 3-man midfield, this will keep happening until we sign ONE guy who is capable of distributing and defending in midfield. Not one guy doing one, while the other guy does the other. Because that means either way, one player is going to be the passenger in either phase of play. So far, Coquelin has been that passenger since breaking through. He uses himself as a decoy rather than helping build up moves, he is sometimes actively avoided. It's only at the beginning of this season/end of last where he began to take more touches.
This is not to belittle Coquelin - I still think he's an important contributor, but I do not agree with the assertion that a player in his mould is our way to an elite team unless that player in his mould is also capable of distributing and aiding our attack as well.
That's a matter of opinion lad. Arteta wasn't and isn't as effective at winning the ball back than Coquelin. His distribution is much better though.
That said, Arteta is hardly Xabi Alonso in that sense, neat and tidy, nothing more.
BBF
Real name: Ragip Xh...
Country: England
Different approaches imo. Coquelin's more action and highlights (no disrespect), whereas Arteta was better positioned. Arteta was really underrated. Could distribute well, defend well, and was usually in the right place.
samshere
Why so serieuse?
Coquelin might be limited, but what he lacks in passing from the back, he more than makes up with his ball winning ability. At his best he covers the entire field winning back the ball multiple times and starting counter attacks as frequently as a long ball spraying regista. As good as the idea of having a single CM doing the job of both ball winning and ball spreading sounds, its not really possible to excel at both the jobs. Coquelin's unswerving focus on winning the ball allows him to be brilliant at it. Coquelin - Cazorla, worked out fairly well against most opponents and in the few occasions we got tonked( I can only remember losing to Bayern by a large margin tbh) the entire backline was to blame as much as the midfield.
Its true that he needs a player of Elneny's ability to work as a fully functional midfield, but then if you remove him and play Elneny - Ramsey or Elneny - Cazorla you'll be able to see what coquelin brings to the game. Of course, I'm not against signing another CM of the xhaka mould but I think even with another midfielder there'll be plenty of situations that will call for coqs specific skillset.
Its true that he needs a player of Elneny's ability to work as a fully functional midfield, but then if you remove him and play Elneny - Ramsey or Elneny - Cazorla you'll be able to see what coquelin brings to the game. Of course, I'm not against signing another CM of the xhaka mould but I think even with another midfielder there'll be plenty of situations that will call for coqs specific skillset.
Fallout
Active Member
maybe i'm delusional but i could see us winning the champions league with coquelin in the team. we would need to upgrade heavily in other positions.
i guess i just dont agree with the idea that ballwinners are obsolete in modern football. that and i also dont agree with the idea that coquelin isnt good enough in possession. he's simply adequate, but his defensive work more than makes up for that.
i guess i just dont agree with the idea that ballwinners are obsolete in modern football. that and i also dont agree with the idea that coquelin isnt good enough in possession. he's simply adequate, but his defensive work more than makes up for that.
Gooner n Proud
a.k.a. nasri_8 and Voice of Flamini
Ive never thought Coquelin looked out of place technically in our midfield, he has a lot more to an his overall game than most players of his mold i.e. Makalele, Matic and Schneiderlin.
His passing and distribution isn't on the level of a Xabi Alonso or Modric but its still at a good enough level if you ask me, generally he distributes the ball well when we're dominating possession and often plays nice passes between the lines. Alongside this he possesses deceptive dribbling ability and close control that often gets him out of tight situations comfortably and thats more than you could say about a player like Schneiderlin for example. Coquelins only 24 so theres still a good amount of time for improvements in his game which will leap him to another level.
His passing and distribution isn't on the level of a Xabi Alonso or Modric but its still at a good enough level if you ask me, generally he distributes the ball well when we're dominating possession and often plays nice passes between the lines. Alongside this he possesses deceptive dribbling ability and close control that often gets him out of tight situations comfortably and thats more than you could say about a player like Schneiderlin for example. Coquelins only 24 so theres still a good amount of time for improvements in his game which will leap him to another level.
fabo
6.51 / 10
I really need a break from forums.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
yybecause
Formerly known as ArsenaLover
I skipped 18 out of 20 posts to get here.. Thats what forums are about, people have opinions, respect them, but I cant read them most of the time
Coquelin still is and will be underrated for few more years, nothing new there...
I see noone is complaining about his defensive side of the game, and shouldnt. He is that good doing that.
Most have problems with his attacking play. I think he is very close to become very good at what a destroyer should be doing. He does have more skills then given credit for, and so many players themself said the same about him!
I dont mind him missing some passes, cause they all do it, but he is trying, he is feeling it and believes in it. Thats the most important part of it. And he does it right too, more often then not, so just relax and let a 23 year old defensive midfielder in first place, get it all sorted out and in 2 years he can become a complete DM, which could make him one of the best in Europe.
Ppl act like he is a completely one way player, and think what player he is now is what he will be like for the next 10 years.
Give it a break...
He's got skills, you can see it often enough if you watch him closely. Players say it in interviews, players clap him regulary during the games for the stuff he sees and tries to do.
Yes, we need to have more options there, and yes, sometimes the game just isnt made for him, but even Özil has games when we would look better without him in.
Coquelin still is and will be underrated for few more years, nothing new there...
I see noone is complaining about his defensive side of the game, and shouldnt. He is that good doing that.
Most have problems with his attacking play. I think he is very close to become very good at what a destroyer should be doing. He does have more skills then given credit for, and so many players themself said the same about him!
I dont mind him missing some passes, cause they all do it, but he is trying, he is feeling it and believes in it. Thats the most important part of it. And he does it right too, more often then not, so just relax and let a 23 year old defensive midfielder in first place, get it all sorted out and in 2 years he can become a complete DM, which could make him one of the best in Europe.
Ppl act like he is a completely one way player, and think what player he is now is what he will be like for the next 10 years.
Give it a break...
He's got skills, you can see it often enough if you watch him closely. Players say it in interviews, players clap him regulary during the games for the stuff he sees and tries to do.
Yes, we need to have more options there, and yes, sometimes the game just isnt made for him, but even Özil has games when we would look better without him in.
Country: England
It's unbelievable this. More to his overall game than Matic, I'm done. Matic is no world beater but what a claim that is. I won't even address the other claims.
Tbh, this is what happens when you haven't had a defensive midfielder for ten years.
Some overreactions from both sides on here.
We could sign Busquets but people will then want him to be a DLP/DM/Box-Box/AM hybrid otherwise he is too limited as he is a DLP/DM hybrid.
This is not FIFA creation center where you can just adjust player attributes etc to suit your whims. Coquelin has been one of the most consistent midfielders in the league ever since joining the first team, he is given applause by almost everyone.
This is not FIFA creation center where you can just adjust player attributes etc to suit your whims. Coquelin has been one of the most consistent midfielders in the league ever since joining the first team, he is given applause by almost everyone.
Eduardo_da_Silva
Active Member
Sad thing is that if he was a Southampton or Leicester player he would be seen around here as a perfect midfielder for Arsenal and would be characterized as a phenomenal combination of drive, skill and determination.
This way he is just not good enough. And this coming from people who have seen players such as Flamini playing for us.
Sometimes I really cant believe the things I read here.
This way he is just not good enough. And this coming from people who have seen players such as Flamini playing for us.
Sometimes I really cant believe the things I read here.
The grass is... to some fans... always greener on the other side.
Coolin
Doesn't appreciate the mighty Nacho
He's fine. If you want to highlight his weaknesses going forward, then we might as well do that for all players. Ramsey's weak defensively and nothing special going forward. Cazorla's great on the ball, but without it - lightweight and slow. Elneny, whilst showing promise, is decent going forward and pretty standard defensively. Then we have our attacking midfielder and our defensive midfielder. Özil is quality going forward but poor defensively. And Coquelin's strong defensively but weak going forward.
Every player has their weaknesses. People are saying top teams have better players than Coquelin in the middle. That's true, but top teams also have better full backs than Bellerin and Monreal, they're still good enough for us.
Coquelin's not the problem. Our problem is a lack of goals. I wouldn't mind some extra competition for him but replacing him is not a necessity.
Every player has their weaknesses. People are saying top teams have better players than Coquelin in the middle. That's true, but top teams also have better full backs than Bellerin and Monreal, they're still good enough for us.
Coquelin's not the problem. Our problem is a lack of goals. I wouldn't mind some extra competition for him but replacing him is not a necessity.
BBF
Real name: Ragip Xh...
Country: England
No one's said he's not good enough to play for us. Get a grip ffs.
Country: Wales
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