I don't think it's the players' place to respond to criticism of another. People have to be allowed to respond in their own way.
What the players could and did do, was express their support for their manager.
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Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances
- Thread starter Ricardinho
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I don't think it's the players' place to respond to criticism of another. People have to be allowed to respond in their own way.
What the players could and did do, was express their support for their manager.
Him having a fit being subbed against Wolves?
Xhaka's response was to jeers and boos. The poster was using Xhaka's "attitude" as a justification for Xhaka being abused by fans in general and in that game in the first place, which is what started the situation...
RacingPhoton
Established Member
Being booed by some people is hurtful but by others is not, is something totally subjective don't you think? Everyone is different. If booing is wrong in your books, it should be wrong no matter who you do it to. Adding more conditional ifs and buts is just bending the definition of morality to make someone look good.
I don't have to show evidence for something that doesn't exist. Show evidence for him having worked on his issues. Like reducing the number of errors. He didn't reduce it right? Even in his interviews, he told that "Mistakes are part of the game". Didn't look like he took responsibility for them.
His attitude? Watch his interview after the penalty he conceded against Sp**s. That's what caused most of the fans to turn against him. Just because he played for Arsenal, it doesn't make him a god level player. We had someone named Yaya Sanogo.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
You blind or what? I never justified"abuse". I have been telling that repeatedly. I was just justifying the booing he received.
Not really. You are trying to win the game, your club's fans are there to support the WHOLE of the team in that effort. The opposition fans are there to support the opposition. No need to pretend they're the same when they aren't.
He's been at Arsenal and been professional. Never had a problem. The burden of proof is on you to support your claim that he hasn't because you made it up to help you out. The reality is you don't like Xhaka because you don't think he's good enough, so you pretend that his mistakes are easy for him to avoid and a consequence of wilfull bad attitude, 'not caring' and all sorts of nonsense.
He acknowledged that he made a mistake. What's the problem? What do you want him to say?
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Which, as I've explained ad nauseum, is clearly abuse when it is directed at your own player for no reason, when they are trying their best.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
You just told that just because they are sports men, it doesn't mean they should be treated differently. They are also humans. Same with fans. Just because they are opposite team fans, it doesn't make things different. They are also humans. Even if you say some people booing hurts while others booing doesn't, it is just your opinion on things. What hurts and what doesn't hurt is a completely subjective matter.
Regarding proof, it is crystal clear that his game has not improved even after three years. Doesn't that mean he is not really working on them?
Acknowledgement is not enough. He has to take responsibility for losing points.
He said "Mistakes happen", "Many chances were missed. Why no one is talking about that?". That is blaming others.
This is not what someone who works on his mistakes says.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
Again for the nth time. Fans had a reason which is his poor performance. Booing is a perfectly legitimate way to express displeasure. It happens in every team in all matches. Only that other players were not as immature as Xhaka.
Ok, so it's just my "opinion" that booing from your own fans, who are supposed to be there to support you is worse than a bit of harmless booing of players who you are there to oppose...
...But it's "crystal clear" he hasn't improved. Yet he's worked on his game at training consistently throughout that period without problems. It's a team game and Arsenal haven't been very good and you don't know to what extent the players around him have limited his ability to improve. Maybe the effort he's put in has merely kept his levels the same and therefore his work has been to prevent himself from getting worse? Who cares? He's still worked on his game. The point is he works without problems and is picked for the team.
Maybe he was sick of being singled out by Arsenal fans and their general negativity and efforts to single him out for his mistakes when he sees that the whole team can improve?
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Singling out your own player for booing does not happen in every team in all matches. It is extraordinary.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
I was wrong when I said it happens in all matches. But it something that happens often. Here is a list. No one else reacted like Xhaka.
Özil was booed off in Europa league.
Mustafi was booed off in the beginning of the season.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...r-united-fans-in-pre-season-friendly-20190720
[URL]https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/marouane-fellaini-booed-by-manchester-united-fans-as-he-warms-up-105935[/URL]
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/19/chelsea-sunderland-premier-league-match-report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37598940
You've posted links to OCCASIONS where players were booed. I believe that the situation is different for Xhaka because he has become the lightining rod and scapegoat for Arsenal fans dissatisfaction. I've watched the criticism build and chip away at him ever since he arrived. Then a new manager offered hope of an uptick, Mustafi being sidelined and taken out of the firing line, many new signings over the last two seasons offered hope of improvement. The singling out of Xhaka has got worse online and in games. It looks to me like it has tipped over into mass bullying. I can see that it is very plausible that it is building in his perception and presents a threat to his ability to perform to his best.
Several of your own links have quotes from people saying that booing your own players is wrong!!!!!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone snaps in the face of a stressful and humiliating experience does not justify the initial stick he receievd or the subsequent condemnation of him as a player a professional and a person.
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Well atleast we never booed Santa.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
No one criticized Xhaka during his first two years here. I myself have been advocating him to be in the team. Fans went against him during his third season when people saw a trend of Arsenal losing points because of his stupidity. He sometimes gets singled out because he single handedly ****s up things for us.
There are also several players after the Xhaka incident who told that Xhaka shouldn't have done that. How about that?
In the links I showed, both Fellaini and Rooney have received targeted booing for a long time. Others, I just don't know. Again, none of them reacted like Xhaka.
Yes they did
What stupidity? Do you mean he makes errors's of judgement in football matches? How does that represent "stupidity" rather than limitations as a footballer?
He doesn't single handedly do anything, there's 11 aside, more in the squad, more in the staff.
Who were they, what did they say, and did they say that the supporters were justified in their antagonistic behaviour leading up to it?
A sample size of 2. One which was Rooney for England, where the supporters disliked the fact that he appeared to be selected on reputation rather than merit, not a club where he is one of a fairly fixed squad aiming to take the club through the season. The second of which was an unspecified number of people booing Fellaini warming up once.
Eaststander74
Jury Lite II
@Balboa You asked for examples, you got them. Everything you've questioned, you've had answered. Gets a bit tedious when you keep demanding more evidence that most people can recall off the top of their heads, without having to undertake the arduous task of punching it in to google.
RacingPhoton
Established Member
Find me any post/article about fans slagging him off in the first two years.
Every team has 11 players. Does that mean no player is bad? We should not blame any players at all for their mistakes?
He single handedly lost two points against Brighton in our final home match last season. He gave away a penalty in a totally unnecessary situation and lost two points. Even the penalty he conceded against Son was not necessary. It was just plain stupid. Son was not even a position to shoot or cause trouble. How can you even blame the rest of the squad for that level of stupidity?
A sample size of 2 which I know of. First, booing was wrong. Then, it was fine if you are booing a player who plays for the opposite team. Now, it is reasonable if the player was not chosen based on merit. How often are you going to bend the rules to justify Xhaka?
And fans booing when Fellaini was just warming up? Isn't that humiliating?
Steps
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna be honest - these last few pages are some of the most pedantic, boring, keyboard-warrioring stuff I've seen in my few years on A-M. ****'s sake, bud.
What examples have I asked for and received?
If you look at this thread, the old Xhaka thread was deleted.
https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/granit-xhaka-next-captain.33379/
Anyway, it doesn't matter when or why, the fans have singled him out.
You shouldn't bully them for mistakes. That's the problem.
In his perception, with his physical and mental abilities, he did what he felt at the time he needed to do. It resulted in a mistake. Big deal. Get over it. Don't bully him and generate more stadium/online toxicity. I'm sure you regularly play against players of Son's quality so you know what he should have done in that situation and know that stupidity is the ony explanation. Oh no, you don't and you have no idea what that's like other than armchair quarterbacking.
He's also won games and points for Arsenal with goals, passes and so on. Scored an excellent goal against Man Utd when he bamboozled De Gea.
There's world of difference between offering the opinion that he isn't good enough and blaming him for the club's results overall.
It was always about booing your own player. That was the only example I ever criticised.
Reasonable if the player was not chosen on merit. Talk about trying to put words in my fingers. All players who make it are there on merit by definition.
"justify Xhaka" wouldn't ever have been necessary if the fans hadn't unnecessarily goaded him in the first place.
Fans booing Fellaini when he's warming up is a ****ty thing to do. But it's unlikely to single him out in the middle of the pitch during a game where he's pumped up and tired and feeling attacked in quite the same way. It was you who said it happens in every game at every club and you cam up with a variety of examples that aren't the same.
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