Granit Xhaka: Next Captain?

[Harz]

Perez and Mustafi fees were inflated due to deadline day but we'd been trying to get Xhaka for a while before we did (Cabaye was also a candidate) to replace Arteta.

To this day, I still don't understand why Wenger moved away from dynamic midfielders to one paced players who passed nicely but couldn't run. I respected Arteta as a professional and he was a much better footballer than Xhaka, but when I look at the profile of players Pochettino introduced to Sp*rs since his arrival (physical, technical, aggressive, tenacious) and what we did in the same time, I find it difficult to solely blame Kroenke for our current state of affairs.

Kroenke definitely isn't the only one to blame for our current situation. Between 2013 and 2016 we had a net spend of ~£230m, and while this amount is dwarfed by the spend of the likes of Man City, it was still quite more than what Liverpool or Tottenham spent.

We brought in players like Özil, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Debuchy, Gabriel, Cech, Elneny, Xhaka, Mustafi, and Perez; all for double figures.

It was quite clear back then, and even clearer now, that Wenger is not as good as the likes of Pochettino and Klopp.

There was a point in Wenger's career when he wasn't winning anything but could've been considered very successful as the club didn't spend a dime and the football was beautiful. For me, that period ended circa 2013.

Football is an ever-changing game and it was only natural that Wenger couldn't keep up. We've come undone as his departure came at the worst possible time, as there were no proven elite coaches to go for. Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino, even Conte would've been realistic in 2013.

 

[Ricardinho]

Kroenke definitely isn't the only one to blame for our current situation. Between 2013 and 2016 we had a net spend of ~£230m, and while this amount is dwarfed by the spend of the likes of Man City, it was still quite more than what Liverpool or Tottenham spent.

We brought in players like Özil, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Debuchy, Gabriel, Cech, Elneny, Xhaka, Mustafi, and Perez; all for double figures.

It was quite clear back then, and even clearer now, that Wenger is not as good as the likes of Pochettino and Klopp.

There was a point in Wenger's career when he wasn't winning anything but could've been considered very successful as the club didn't spend a dime and the football was beautiful. For me, that period ended circa 2013.

Football is an ever-changing game and it was only natural that Wenger couldn't keep up. We've come undone as his departure came at the worst possible time, as there were no proven elite coaches to go for. Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino, even Conte would've been realistic in 2013.

A declining Wengz still won more than Poch has. Was Poch even on the radar around 2013? If he was it would've been his early days at Southampton. Remember the uproar when they sacked Adkins to bring Poch in. Now multiply that by ten if he replaced the legend himself around that time :rofl:

 

[Harz]

A declining Wengz still won more than Poch has. Was Poch even on the radar around 2013? If he was it would've been his early days at Southampton. Remember the uproar when they sacked Adkins to bring Poch in. Now multiply that by ten if he replaced the legend himself around that time :rofl:

Sure he won more, and sure there would've been absolute mayhem if Pochettino was brought to Arsenal in 2014, but can you really say it'd be worse for the team?

I don't remember the last time we had an entertaining season like the one Tottenham had this year.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Kroenke definitely isn't the only one to blame for our current situation. Between 2013 and 2016 we had a net spend of ~£230m, and while this amount is dwarfed by the spend of the likes of Man City, it was still quite more than what Liverpool or Tottenham spent.

We brought in players like Özil, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Debuchy, Gabriel, Cech, Elneny, Xhaka, Mustafi, and Perez; all for double figures.

It was quite clear back then, and even clearer now, that Wenger is not as good as the likes of Pochettino and Klopp.

There was a point in Wenger's career when he wasn't winning anything but could've been considered very successful as the club didn't spend a dime and the football was beautiful. For me, that period ended circa 2013.

Football is an ever-changing game and it was only natural that Wenger couldn't keep up. We've come undone as his departure came at the worst possible time, as there were no proven elite coaches to go for. Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino, even Conte would've been realistic in 2013.

Brilliant post. Kroenke is at fault. But he is not definitely the only one at fault. We bought too many bits and pieces players like Welbeck, Perez, Elneny and wasted money on flops like Mustafi and Xhaka. The thing that bites us even more is the number of players we left for free.

As you said, Wenger lost it after 2013. I am not in favour of arguments that say Wenger would have done lot better now. The fact that we dropped out of top 4 while Sp**s spending less than us, stayed in top 4 speaks a lot about Wenger's position in his latter years at Arsenal. The game moved passed him.

The mistake which Kroenke made was not with investment. He did not hold Gazidis or Wenger accountable. Gazidis should have been fired long back for the way he handled contracts. Instead it was he who left us. Same goes to Wenger. So yes. All three are responsible for the way Arsenal fell apart in the recent years. I would put Gazidis at the top of the list though.

 

[Harz]

Brilliant post. Kroenke is at fault. But he is not definitely the only one at fault. We bought too many bits and pieces players like Welbeck, Perez, Elneny and wasted money on flops like Mustafi and Xhaka. The thing that bites us even more is the number of players we left for free.

As you said, Wenger lost it after 2013. I am not in favour of arguments that say Wenger would have done lot better now. The fact that we dropped out of top 4 while Sp**s spending less than us, stayed in top 4 speaks a lot about Wenger's position in his latter years at Arsenal. The game moved passed him.

The mistake which Kroenke made was not with investment. He did not hold Gazidis or Wenger accountable. Gazidis should have been fired long back for the way he handled contracts. Instead it was he who left us. Same goes to Wenger. So yes. All three are responsible for the way Arsenal fell apart in the recent years. I would put Gazidis at the top of the list though.

I don't really like to rank between those who are at fault, but I'd put Kroenke on top, with Gazidis a close second.

What I wanted to emphasize was that Wenger wasn't the victim, although some like to push that narrative in a revisionist manner.

 

[Artisan]

Perez and Mustafi fees were inflated due to deadline day but we'd been trying to get Xhaka for a while before we did (Cabaye was also a candidate) to replace Arteta.

To this day, I still don't understand why Wenger moved away from dynamic midfielders to one paced players who passed nicely but couldn't run. I respected Arteta as a professional and he was a much better footballer than Xhaka, but when I look at the profile of players Pochettino introduced to Sp*rs since his arrival (physical, technical, aggressive, tenacious) and what we did in the same time, I find it difficult to solely blame Kroenke for our current state of affairs.

It's because we needed someone suited to partner that gimp Ramsey and Arteta had been the only player capable of forming a good partnership with him.

 

[arsenefc]

Wenger had just 6 big signings in the last 10 yrs. Özil, sanchez, xhaka, mustafi, laca, auba.

doesnt seem to be a bad picker. 5 of them are still at the club.

Had he been able to do 6 signings in the 60+ range, we would not be wanking over klopp.

Bear in mind that he lost cesc, nasri, rvp, ox because of an unambitious tightfisted board.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Wenger had just 6 big signings in the last 10 yrs. Özil, sanchez, xhaka, mustafi, laca, auba.

doesnt seem to be a bad picker. 5 of them are still at the club.

Had he been able to do 6 signings in the 60+ range, we would not be wanking over klopp.

Bear in mind that he lost cesc, nasri, rvp, ox because of an unambitious tightfisted board.

5 of them still at the club. Seriously. That is your argument? More than half of that 5 are here only because no one is willing to buy them.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Ideally we would get rid of Xhaka. Not dynamic enough, prone to regular clangers. Has alot of decent/good games, some very good ones. The problem is when he has a bad game he has a BAD game. Resembling a clueless bambi on ice. The sad part is though we have far worse players to get rid of first. Even at his curent level of performance it is a sad state of affairs that whenever he is missing we look even worse.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Just like Ramsey became sort of a king, when you started to see the peasants and farmers around him. Xhaka has by definition become a prince. Let's slowly upgrade on the peasants with elite players and soon just pinging a few diagonal balls and a few pretty sprays here and there won't elevate you to royalty.

 

[arsenefc]

5 of them still at the club. Seriously. That is your argument? More than half of that 5 are here only because no one is willing to buy them.

you speak out of your fundament.
Mustafi is miles better than the clogger Sokratis. Xkaha is miles better than the Doozi who cant attack or defend. Özil, Auba, Laca will easily find buyers considering that just a season ago they commanded hefty money

At a stretch u may be able to make a case against mustafi...but even then, that leaves 5 out of 6 good fantastic buys

 

[RacingPhoton]

you speak out of your fundament.
Mustafi is miles better than the clogger Sokratis. Xkaha is miles better than the Doozi who cant attack or defend. Özil, Auba, Laca will easily find buyers considering that just a season ago they commanded hefty money

At a stretch u may be able to make a case against mustafi...but even then, that leaves 5 out of 6 good fantastic buys

The fact that you have to compare a 26 year old Xhaka with a 19 year old Gendouzi to make Xhaka look better shows shows the standard of Xhaka. Mr.Xhaka single handedly loses matches for us with those errors and penalties and you still say that he is a good player?

And in what way is Mustafi better than Sokratis? Mustafi does marginally better in number of tackles per match. But he more than makes up for it in the number of errors leading to goal. And Sokratis was bought for half the money we paid for Mustafi. Should I even compare Xhaka and Gendouzi transfer fee?
And yes. I am the one who speaks out of the fundament. But you are excreting out of your mouth my friend.

 

[arsenefc]

The fact that you have to compare a 26 year old Xhaka with a 19 year old Gendouzi to make Xhaka look better shows shows the standard of Xhaka. Mr.Xhaka single handedly loses matches for us with those errors and penalties and you still say that he is a good player?

And in what way is Mustafi better than Sokratis? Mustafi does marginally better in number of tackles per match. But he more than makes up for it in the number of errors leading to goal. And Sokratis was bought for half the money we paid for Mustafi. Should I even compare Xhaka and Gendouzi transfer fee?
And yes. I am the one who speaks out of the fundament. But you are excreting out of your mouth my friend.

out of the 5, 4 started in a must win game...so either the coach is wonky, or they are the best options.

mustafi didnt start and the defence leaked 4 goals and no one was able to clear the ball.

fact

 

[RacingPhoton]

out of the 5, 4 started in a must win game...so either the coach is wonky, or they are the best options.

mustafi didnt start and the defence leaked 4 goals and no one was able to clear the ball.

fact

That's because Emery had only one transfer window to buy players. And none of the players he bought are even closer to how expensive those 5 players are.
Instead of coming out with theories like "We haven't sold them yet" and "They started a match. They should be great players", why don't you look at the actual performances on the field? The number of errors leading to goal alone is good enough to prove that Xhaka and Mustafi don't belong at this level.

And regarding Özil. I am his fan too. But I don't support him blindly. Given his performance this season and the salary he is getting, no one is going to buy him.

 

[arsenefc]

no one can argue that the 6 have been poor buys.

stop making everything a wedge issue and be happy in life.

 

[scytheavatar]

It's because we needed someone suited to partner that gimp Ramsey and Arteta had been the only player capable of forming a good partnership with him.

Nah, it's because he had to adapt to the changes of modern football post 2014 and the rise of the gegenpressing. His vision was not to play the gegenpressing game and instead invite his opponents to press his team, only to be passed out of the way by "one paced players who passed nicely". The problem is that those players ended up not passing nicely and getting overwhelmed by teams who increasingly become better at pressing.

 

[Preacher]

The fact that you have to compare a 26 year old Xhaka with a 19 year old Gendouzi to make Xhaka look better shows shows the standard of Xhaka. Mr.Xhaka single handedly loses matches for us with those errors and penalties and you still say that he is a good player?

And in what way is Mustafi better than Sokratis?

Because Wenger bought Mustafi, so he's better. This is how @arsenefc mind works. Everything is better, if Wenger did it. It's pointless to discuss something with him. Waste of time.

 

[albakos]

Captain Xhaka called the Inter rumours as rubbish

 

[celestis]

Captain Xhaka called the Inter rumours as rubbish

T

 

[MutableEarth]

Nah, it's because he had to adapt to the changes of modern football post 2014 and the rise of the gegenpressing. His vision was not to play the gegenpressing game and instead invite his opponents to press his team, only to be passed out of the way by "one paced players who passed nicely". The problem is that those players ended up not passing nicely and getting overwhelmed by teams who increasingly become better at pressing.

The major mistake he made was in discounting the increasing need for deep-lying players who can dribble. Cazorla went someway to offsetting this in the short-term. I was all for bringing Xhaka at the time, with a few reservations, but his lack of press-resistance was something I didn't consider aswell when advocating for a more DLP-type of player.

Captain Xhaka called the Inter rumours as rubbish

Why would he leave? He's got it pretty decent here.

I think he should be considered an expendable asset at some point within the next year, but for now, I don't see him leaving at all. We should be looking to supplement his lack of agility with some dynamic midfield partnership.