Joe Willock: 2019/2020 Performances

[MutableEarth]

It's more so that they look busier and always do, but I am not fooled by it.

Willock struggles to get involved in the game when in the 10. This is nothing new. We know this. It's like how Ramsey was always more effective from central midfield. How do you time runs into the box if you are already there just waiting? How do you drive forward of you are waiting for the ball from the person who should be driving forward but can't.

Willock has abilities and traits that suit a deeper position. He has physicality in 50 50 duels and has enough agility to turn and adjust to dribbles. He is also agile enough to time slide tackles and enough pace to get to loose balls quickly. He can spread the ball all over the pitch it he is instructed to. He has that passing range, he can also shoot and finish. However his most visible trait is that he can carry the ball from his own half to the final third Vs ANYBODY. If you can do it vs Liverpool and City. You can do it against anyone.

In this game he did that on a few occasions and he did it from deep. He did it more than Guendouzi and Ceballos, you know why? Because they aren't even capable of doing it. You know when they can do it? In a training game on Arsenal.com videos. Put them in a match and they are running in quick sand. When they get the ball they want to take 5 touches before releasing it. I was watching them every time. It looks neat and tidy holding onto it, drawing 2 players towards you and then passing it backwards, but what use is that? As a midfielder you should be able to assess the situation BEFORE you get the ball. You check your shoulders and you should assess the crowd scene. When you receive it, you should know your options and what you want to do. If you are under pressure you either release it quickly and move or you dribble past it. Ceballos and Guendouzi dribble away from pressure towards their own goal, make a pass and then don't have the speed or agility to dart into space, they just close the space down and point. But on TV it looks fine. In a game if you are the front 3, you are watching that thinking why bother moving, these idiots won't place a pass anyway.

Any team we play finds an out ball. It isn't because our press is rubbish. It's because they have the balls to play it. This forum is safe with Guendouzi, Xhaka and Ceballos because they make you feel safe, they play safe. They only play the ball forward if they are 100 percent sure. That's not good enough. If not we retain possession? To what? Go back to Leno for him to stand on the ball and then kick it long to forwards who don't win aerial duels with midfielders who can't win the second ball. As every game goes on we will pile more and more pressure on ourselves till someone makes a mistake.

AMN did more in 10 minutes that Guendouzi and Ceballos did the entire match. He didn't even have to do much. He ran forwards and backwards. When he got forwards he could recover back. He spent less time on the ball in possession. He played a forward pass that put lacazette in to a position where he should have assisted a goal.

Watch Ceballos on their third goal. He isn't jogging. He is running at full pace and that is the same as AMN jogging. Its ridiculous. Foden is his man. He just needs to follow him into the box, but doesn't bother. His mind isn't even with his club ffs why is he even getting minutes?

I'm sick of our midfield. Looking forward to the next fa cup game where we actually see some agility and pace in there.

Torrreira, Xhaka injured. Ceballos and Guendouzi will start in a double pivot. Absolute joke. Have some balls and play Saka willock and AMN together.

I want to add onto this, but I can't . People recognize that our first choice midfield seriously lacks in terms of acceleration, agility and even power to a large extent. Combine the fact that there's entirely too many touches on the ball. Yet people still want to see them start ahead of guys like AMN and Willock who they've already deemed not good enough despite not even getting a fraction of the chances in those actual spots. It's frustrating knowing they could do the job but nobody is giving them the proper go and everyone here ****s on them ahead of others who underperform regularly aswell.

Want to see Willock play much deeper and receive closer to goal when he plays next. He's far too advanced to do anything useful.

He’s not a 10. He did seem to play deeper yesterday, but I’m not gonna judge him when he’s up against that type of quality with the ****e behind him. I actually thought he was good first half, won a fair few balls but his passing let him down.

It has happened a lot with Willock, Nelson and Nketiah. They do something good and then mess up the simple thing, that’s why Saka and Martinelli are seen as better talents, they have a composure that’s rare in young players.

It's just the extra scrutiny, and I think they'll get used to that. Some players take a while to get used to it, while others don't care off rip. I'm very confident if the former 3 get more chances it will fade.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Hopefully he goes out on loan next season and plays as a 8. Championship side would do him well. If he's slightly meh we can sell him but if he's really good then we can keep him. I have faith in him but Arsenal need good players right now and Willock is struggling.

 

[Hunta]

Hopefully he goes out on loan next season and plays as a 8. Championship side would do him well. If he's slightly meh we can sell him but if he's really good then we can keep him. I have faith in him but Arsenal need good players right now and Willock is struggling.

Would prefer Germany, in an ideal world, the five lads in the first team squad (Saka, Nelson, Willock, Nketiah, Smith Rowe) would all be in the Bundesliga tearing it up. We’re a million miles from being able to do that though!

 

[GoonerJay24]

He was bad yesterday but so was Ramsey at the same age, if Willock had a run of 5-6 games he'd be better afterwards from such experience.

 

[Tourbillion]

Top post @The_Playmaker

What pisses me off about Guendouzi is when he arrived (preseason 2018) he was constantly seeing and playing those risky balls between the lines. I was so excited we finally had a player with the balls to do that once again.

It lasted only a few months though, to the absolute nothingness we see to this day.

Our midfield is disgusting and even worse is all our coaches continue to pick the wrong dickheads to fill it.

Inexplicably frustrating.

 

[Fewtch]

He can score the occasional goal against EL teams and he can run with the ball really far! That’s about it.

 

[truth_hurts]

Out of his depth yesterday, but that can happen to anybody away at The Etihad.

 

[Big Poppa]

Guendouzi played like a horseshit yesterday. He gets a free ride here. Willock at least tried. He gets all the slack. Just wondering why?

Elephant in the room.

I don't want to believe it's anything sinister but there does seem to be a subconscious, dismissive undertone about certain types of players as lacking talent, lacking concentration and/or less intelligent than others.

Never just a lack of experience? (e.g. how many back to back 90 minute appearances have Willock or AMN had in their best positions v someone like Guendouzi or Torreira?)

Ox had the same reaction when he insisted he was a central midfielder yet at the time the only debate about the future of Arsenal's midfield was Wilshere v Ramsey.

2020's been a ride though so I'll take this one outside of AM.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Elephant in the room.

I don't want to believe it's anything sinister but there does seem to be a subconscious, dismissive undertone about certain types of players as lacking talent, lacking concentration and/or less intelligent than others.

Never just a lack of experience? (e.g. how many back to back 90 minute appearances have Willock or AMN had in their best positions v someone like Guendouzi or Torreira?)

Ox had the same reaction when he insisted he was a central midfielder yet at the time the only debate about the future of Arsenal's midfield was Wilshere v Ramsey.

2020's been a ride though so I'll take this one outside of AM.

Tbf most of the forum are going to start a riot if we dont get partey, we see Gendouzhi as a headless chicken but has had a few decent games but now nobody sees him as really good enough to start in the midfield. AMN started poorly but really became great in the right back position, it makes sense not to just throw him in as the anchor of the midfield when he hasnt had all that much experience playing comapred to say torreria who everyone views as limited not just because of his stature but his passing is okay at best. Like Torreria got a lot of credit because he was flying in to challenges and intercepting all over the place when he first came and we thought wed found the new kante and there might be still some of that there - he does play in a holding position for uruguay as well. Out of the 4 above only Torreria has really shown anything in midfield for more than patches.

I dont know a single person who was wilshere v ramsey, we wanted both and coquelinb as the anchor - the dream youth team coming through... Ox had been phenomanal as playing with van persie further forward as a free player so it seemed logical to keep him there when we didnt have anyone technical who could do what he could.

 

[Trilly]

He’s not a 10. He did seem to play deeper yesterday, but I’m not gonna judge him when he’s up against that type of quality with the ****e behind him. I actually thought he was good first half, won a fair few balls but his passing let him down.

It has happened a lot with Willock, Nelson and Nketiah. They do something good and then mess up the simple thing, that’s why Saka and Martinelli are seen as better talents, they have a composure that’s rare in young players.

Yeah I've 'downgraded' him on my young talent list (not to be confused with @GDeep™ 's young talent list)

Not ready to write him off but he's not a 'special' talent imo.

 

[Hunta]

Yeah I've 'downgraded' him on my young talent list (not to be confused with @GDeep™ 's young talent list)

Not ready to write him off but he's not a 'special' talent imo.

He’s somebody who’ll develop much further in his early twenties in my opinion, needs to fill out and find his role. Very confident he’ll be a solid player for us though.

 

[OnlyOne]

He’s somebody who’ll develop much further in his early twenties in my opinion, needs to fill out and find his role. Very confident he’ll be a solid player for us though.

I feel the same about Guendouzi, when he's actually a man he'll be quality, atm he seems like a 16 year old.

 

[Hunta]

I feel the same about Guendouzi, when he's actually a man he'll be quality, atm he seems like a 16 year old.

They’ve both got the raw ingredients to become very good players, when they’re 23/24 I think they’ll be brilliant. My only gripe with Guendouzi is how childish he acts, that French clique annoys me, dancing around and pissing about in the training vids we see, whilst we’re a pile of **** every game.

 

[OnlyOne]

They’ve both got the raw ingredients to become very good players, when they’re 23/24 I think they’ll be brilliant. My only gripe with Guendouzi is how childish he acts, that French clique annoys me.

Yeah that's what I mean, he's always waving arms and complaining and blaming others but he'll grow up.

 

[Riou]

that French clique annoys me, dancing around and pissing about in the training vids we see, whilst we’re a pile of **** every game.

Imagine them in training with Henry and Vieira, that was a very different type of French clique

 

[Big Poppa]

Tbf most of the forum are going to start a riot if we dont get partey, we see Gendouzhi as a headless chicken but has had a few decent games but now nobody sees him as really good enough to start in the midfield. AMN started poorly but really became great in the right back position, it makes sense not to just throw him in as the anchor of the midfield when he hasnt had all that much experience playing comapred to say torreria who everyone views as limited not just because of his stature but his passing is okay at best. Like Torreria got a lot of credit because he was flying in to challenges and intercepting all over the place when he first came and we thought wed found the new kante and there might be still some of that there - he does play in a holding position for uruguay as well. Out of the 4 above only Torreria has really shown anything in midfield for more than patches.

I dont know a single person who was wilshere v ramsey, we wanted both and coquelinb as the anchor - the dream youth team coming through... Ox had been phenomanal as playing with van persie further forward as a free player so it seemed logical to keep him there when we didnt have anyone technical who could do what he could.

Everyone here wants the same thing which is for Arsenal to be successful. The clamour for Partey is because, in part, people know who he is and they’ve seen his quality on the biggest stage, he can make an impact now.

He was loaned in consecutive seasons to Mallorca and Almeria when he was 21-22 to get regular first team football which helped him become the player he is today at 27. Willock Is just potential but I’ve seen enough mental, physical and technical qualities to suggest he can be similarly successful.

Our academy players should never be beyond criticism but I don’t think we judge some of them fairly at all. What are they supposed to do when seasoned players like Luiz and in the past, Mustafi and Xhaka routinely implode under pressure but continue getting starts every week and remain on the pitch while the young players are subbed off?

I genuinely think we’d all benefit from watching more U23 football to get a more accurate perspective on why some of these players are rated as highly as they are. I include myself in that.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Our academy players should never be beyond criticism but I don’t think we judge some of them fairly at all. What are they supposed to do when seasoned players like Luiz and in the past, Mustafi and Xhaka routinely implode under pressure but continue getting starts every week and remain on the pitch while the young players are subbed off?

I agree with what you're saying and Willock might make it but I don't think hes shown enough to start right now or at least in an attacking midfield position. He might be following Arteta's instructions to the tee but sometimes you need to adapt to what is actually happening on the pitch which may be a confidence/experience thing. I genuinely think he does needs minutes and will improve but how much is the question and are we prepared to put him on the pitch given what he has shown right now.

As far as xhaka and mustafi go I dont think they belong in this team, xhaka can be okay because he understands what he needs to do and oddly I thought his best matches were when he was actually box to box when he could use his size, passing and ability to shoot from diustance to at least contribute something. Mustafi shouldn't be near the team, it seems our standards have dropped so low that he if he doesnt make a complete howler he is a good centreback, he doesnt actually defend from what I see - he only ever seems to slow the attack, he gets beaten 1 on 1s and doesnt support his full backs. I wouldve kept bielek instead of this joker.

I've been wrong before, Chambers loan spells done him a world of good and he came back a different beast going from last year's performances but boy was he flamed before that, look at how badly holding is regarded now, most people dont want him near the pitch. I don't think theres any undertones with Willock and AMN I just think that Willock in particular hasn't shown much of what we need anywhere in the midfield, I would like to see him box to box being honest about it and high hopes given how highly rated he was but then he just didn't produce on the pitch.

I see AMN and see how he progressed from not being good at all after his first few performances in full back to completely understanding the position and think yeah he deserves to be slowly bedded in the midfield. I think, as well, there was an impression given of AMN from the media that he threw his toys from the pram because he wasn't being let play in cm, I also think there is an impression he is going to leave because he has so little left in his contract and we've seen so little of him so everyone here is worried that we'll get him to a stage where he'll be producing and then picked up by another club on the cheap.

But thats my interpretation of the whole thing, I genuinely think that we have the most diverse fanbase and the least amount of issues you're alluding to (at least I hope so).

 

[RunTheTrap]

I think he should've gone out on loan with ESR. I still believe the pair of them are out future midfield.

 

[Mraven]

I think he should've gone out on loan with ESR. I still believe the pair of them are out future midfield.

Sending your third best CM on loan is generally not a good idea

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

We've got to have faith in Willock, he is a good player & probably one of our future regular midfielders. He had a bad game against City but so did everyone else, one less then average game shouldn't stop fans have faith in players. I don't know whether he is a 10 like Özil or a deeper lying play maker but I do believe he'll still make it. We've got to stop being negative in certain players after a few less then average performances.