Life After Emery Begins

[APierre]

 

[DanDare]

He's got prehistorical tactics, ffs. The sort of football his teams play is what you'd see when football started in England and over the years he's only gotten worse.

"Prehistorical tactics" that saw him win the league only 5 seasons ago.

I'm not convinced by Jose but to suggest he isn't good tactically is disingenuous I feel.

 

[KrissKringle]

"Prehistorical tactics" that saw him win the league only 5 seasons ago.

I'm not convinced by Jose but to suggest he isn't good tactically is disingenuous I feel.

Have you seen Chelsea and Manure before he got sacked? That was backwards football and you know it as well as I do.
His negative philosophy will only get you so far and Arsenal hasn't been playing that sort of stuff since the George Graham days when we'd score 1 and close shop.
He can put the wall of China in front of goal like nobody else, but do you really want to see that sort of stuff here? On top of that, he's obviously declined and it would be the same as getting Cech after his peak.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

We don’t have to like Mourinho for the stuff that he has said about Wenger in the past, but there is no running away from the unquestionable fact that he is an elite manager with a tremendous record.

Is it unquestionable though? There is no question he was an elite manager, truly exceptional for a long period of time. However a valid question asked about Mourinho is, has the game moved on from from his time? Does his man management skills seem out of date? The siege mentality he loves to create doesn't seem to be as effective as before.

Maybe he still is elite and just needs the right club and players.

That is the big question. Is the old magic still there? Sadly, looking at his career it actually raises more doubts.

If we start from 2002 when he had his first full season as a manager, for the next decade he won the league 7 times and finshed as runners up 3 times. So he didn't finish lower than 2nd place. That included spells at 4 different clubs in 4 different countries. He also won 2 CL in that time. This period, there is no question he is elite, arguably the best manager around.

Into his 2nd managerial decade, he starts by finishing 3rd with Chelsea. While he does win the league the season after, he starts to struggle again. He gets sacked while Chelsea sit 16th in the league the following season. And this after a third of the season had been played.

He joins Man Utd and finishes 6th, then 2nd. His 3rd season he is sacked when his team sit 11 points off the top 4, a massive 20 points behind Liverpool, while spending nearly £400m on players. Yes he has had some issues to deal with both at Chelsea and United (some would say most of it was caused by him in the first place) and in United's case he had to take over a struggling team. But that raises that question again, if he was still truly elite wouldn't he found a way, rather than for example engineer the worst start Man Utd have had for 28 years in his third season? (Just realised that means even Moyes didn't start the season as bad, which shows how much he was struggling). This period obviously is a very mixed bag. Some of it very alarming if you were a club thinking of appointing him. To me it seems he is a different manager than the one in the first period, not only in result but in his demeanour.

In short, I'm still not sure if he can conjure up his old magic or like many managers before him the game has passesd him by. I won't completely write him off but we do have to acknowledge there are some doubts wether he can rule supreme once again.

 

[Makingtrax]

Except that Mourinho won the Champions League with Porto during our Invincible season.

Moreover, his exceptionally dominant performance against Wenger 1v1 cannot simply be justified by the money factor. He has pasted Wenger several times even though the difference between the teams wasn’t exactly huge.

Wenger is loyal, plays attractive football and is patient with mediocre young players. However, Mourinho is a better tactician, he is more ambitious and is clearly better at winning trophies.

The chances of Mourinho winning the CL with the invincibles are significantly higher than the chances of Wenger winning the CL with Porto and winning a treble with any side.

Overall, Mourinho is simply the better manager. Anyone who isn’t an Arsenal fan and doesn’t have an obvious bias to Wenger will come to the same conclusion. As Arsenal fans we are obviously biased and that’s fine, but at times it doesn’t hurt to be objective.

As far as the notion that Wenger managed to punch above his weight and finish in the top 4 with weak sides (something that Mourinho cannot do apparently) is concerned,

Man united have been a ****house since SAF left in 2013. These are their league positions since:

7th
4th
5th
6th
2nd
6th

No prize for guessing who took them to 2nd place.

We don’t have to like Mourinho for the stuff that he has said about Wenger in the past, but there is no running away from the unquestionable fact that he is an elite manager with a tremendous record.

Wenger and Mourinho have played 19 times and Mourinho has won 10 which easily reflects the large difference he's had in spend over the years since coming in 2004. For 8 of those years his squad had more than treble the cost of Wengers.

Mourinho is the highest spending manager ever, he's bought his way to those titles with boring boring football.

When he took over United he had the second richest team in the league and he got a 58% win rate. Wenger managed a 58% win rate over 22 years with much lower spend!!

And in all those years Wenger never once took Arsenal to one place above the relegation zone by p!ssing off the players, because they loved and respected him.

Wenger was not only a footballing genius but a very classy human being, much respected by footballing organising and players all over the world.

Mourinho is just a self absorbed prick who could never take a lower spending side and make it better than the sum of it's parts like Wenger did for a ridiculous amount of time. Wenger is twice the manager Mourinho will ever be on so many fronts.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Mourinho would create division among the squad. We don't need that.

 

[KrissKringle]

However a valid question asked about Mourinho is, has the game moved on from from his time? Does his man management skills seem out of date? The siege mentality he loves to create doesn't seem to be as effective as before.

Maybe he still is elite and just needs the right club and players.

That is the big question. Is the old magic still there? Sadly, looking at his career it actually raises more doubts.

That style isn't working as well as in the past and for what he's best at doing Arsenal and the players here aren't the best to illustrate his strengths. It would take him a full year to teach our clowns at the back to defend and even then I'm not convinced they wouldn't commit a howler when we least expect it.

 

[GDeep™]

Mourinho would create division among the squad. We don't need that.

Has he done that before? Division amongst squad members?

 

[GDeep™]

I don’t really want Jose either, but then I see posts like “I’ll take Kovac” .

Give me Mourinho if that’s where we’re at.

 

[KrissKringle]

Has he done that before? Division amongst squad members?

I'm pretty sure that happened at Madrid and we all know the soap opera with Pogba.

 

[Tosker]

if we're not going to get into the top 4 with Emery - and we're not - and most if not all the squad don't want him, then I can't see any reason not to let Freddie take over until the summer - or beyond of course if he revives the team

it makes financial sense as he's already here, as far as we know the squad would accept him happily, and it would start a move to restore our core values

and I bet Wenger would make himself available personally if Freddie wanted to consult him privately

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

That's the friend zone.

Are you in friend zone?

Time to give up on her mate and accept you two are just friends! There are plenty of amazing girls out there for you! Leave the zone, have a friend and make a girlfriend! You deserve it!

 

[Notorious Big]

Are you in friend zone?

Time to give up on her mate and accept you two are just friends! There are plenty of amazing girls out there for you! Leave the zone, have a friend and make a girlfriend! You deserve it!

True,but one thing is giving up and one is to being friend.Tnx for help !

 

[al-Ustaadh]

if we're not going to get into the top 4 with Emery - and we're not - and most if not all the squad don't want him, then I can't see any reason not to let Freddie take over until the summer - or beyond of course if he revives the team

it makes financial sense as he's already here, as far as we know the squad would accept him happily, and it would start a move to restore our core values

and I bet Wenger would make himself available personally if Freddie wanted to consult him privately

I’m on the side with this as I’m uncertain we’d get the kind of quality we need right now. Seems like we’d have to wait until the end of the season for somebody like ten Hag or Arteta. I fear Ljunberg would leave if we overlooked him regardless.

 

[El Duderino]

I see Mourinho has been on the phone with Duncan again...

That's the third time this week?

 

[Vibra]

Would love Ten Hag from Ajax next summer

 

[Toby]

Like Emery, his ideas are outdated.

Arteta and Vieira can bring that freshness the game the likes of Naggelsmann and Lamaprd are showing.

Tbh that is a lot of speculation. Nagelsmann has worked as scout and coach for almost a decade and was known as one of the top german coaching talents before getting the Hoffenheim!! Job. Arteta and Vieira don't compare. Lampard is a far better comparison to these two. But even he was Boss before in contrast to Arteta.

 

[Polar Bear]

We need a manager who speaks English and can communicate easily.. its vital. Pep and Klopp would not have had the same effect if they couldn't talk a word of English, and I don't think they would have even taken the roles either.

If its to be believed that a lot of the players can't understand Emery, then we should not make the same mistake again. Do you remember when Conte came to Chelsea and won the league? he said he deliberately made sure he had John Terry and Carlo Cudicini with him at all times because they are both fluent in English and can relay a lot of the messages of what he demands and wants of the players.. he said they were both vital for him.

A lot of people want Allegri, and yes he has done very well at Juventus, but how is his English, I don't know, I have no clue if he can speak English well or not, but if he can't then I fear it could be the same problems.

 

[zilfy]

Why not change coach when we're just 6 points off the chase, instead of 9?
Why wait for this Leicester game?

Obviously new coach wont be able to turn it around in a week, but at least the players and fans will have their hope revived, and the coach will have one more week to set up his system and get to know the players

 

[yorch44]

What would I do? Sack Emery ASAP and put Freddy as interim for next 3-4 matches while looking for options. If we don’t see progress I would go for Mou as short term for top 4. If we look better with Freddy then I would look for options for next summer (Ajax manager like) and if Freddy does super good then I would give him the chance next season.