✍️ OFFICIAL Marquinhos (Loan)

[lomekian]

Thanks for taking the time to write this all up, appreciate it. But to not push this into further essays about individuals - it's not Marqunihos signing that irked me, it's the manner of the signing and how he was (with more or less the same talent) pushed up the pecking order blocking any young attacking individual from coming on.

This wouldn't be an issue if not for the lack of system in place to brood in youngsters already at the club.

And I don't understand the naming of all those players who haven't made it. 90% of youngsters won't make it at the top level, but you just HAVE to give them a chance.

Klopp debuted 19 teenagers in the Premier League league only in his 8.5-year stint. That's not counting 20-year-olds. Only Trent, Elliot, and Jones "made it" but it still didn't stop him? Do you know how many teens Teta debuted in the league since he came? One. That was Nwaneri in that absurd moment that is now looking more like a political move or setting a personal record or something.

Who was he blocking? Hutchinson had already refused to re-sign and was in talks with Chelsea by then. The only other player we had in that position was a 16 year old who was about to have a good season in the u18s but hadn't yet done anything of note by that point. You don't not take a cheap punt on a player because you've got a 16 year old who might one day turn into something, but is hardly a jewel in the crown.

And you don't HAVE to give youngsters a chance if they clearly don't have the talent. When you are improving the first team, and playing in tight games where every point counts, what is the point in chucking in some kids who don't even stand out at u21 level? The comparisons with Liverpool just show ignorance of the relative levels of players in the age groups in recent years, bar the couple of special talents a year we've produced. That's fine of course - getting 1 or 2 first team or £30m sale players a crop is still a huge success, that reducces the significance of the others not being at the level. But to be clear these weren't guys who dropped down to the championship or to become regulars in decent league one sides, and thus could command a fee worthy of mentioning - most have dropped down to the subs bench at the lower professional levels. Watching the u21s in recent years its been clear as day that bar a few gems, the majority were simply not at the level.

As for Klopp debuting kids - look at the circumstances. Injuries meaning no choice or home games with padded score -lines to throw players late on. We've really not had many circumstances in recent season where that applies.

As for our ONE...your comment looks a bit stupid after this weekend.

 

[berric]

Who was he blocking? Hutchinson had already refused to re-sign and was in talks with Chelsea by then. The only other player we had in that position was a 16 year old who was about to have a good season in the u18s but hadn't yet done anything of note by that point. You don't not take a cheap punt on a player because you've got a 16 year old who might one day turn into something, but is hardly a jewel in the crown.

And you don't HAVE to give youngsters a chance if they clearly don't have the talent. When you are improving the first team, and playing in tight games where every point counts, what is the point in chucking in some kids who don't even stand out at u21 level? The comparisons with Liverpool just show ignorance of the relative levels of players in the age groups in recent years, bar the couple of special talents a year we've produced. That's fine of course - getting 1 or 2 first team or £30m sale players a crop is still a huge success, that reducces the significance of the others not being at the level. But to be clear these weren't guys who dropped down to the championship or to become regulars in decent league one sides, and thus could command a fee worthy of mentioning - most have dropped down to the subs bench at the lower professional levels. Watching the u21s in recent years its been clear as day that bar a few gems, the majority were simply not at the level.

As for Klopp debuting kids - look at the circumstances. Injuries meaning no choice or home games with padded score -lines to throw players late on. We've really not had many circumstances in recent season where that applies.

As for our ONE...your comment looks a bit stupid after this weekend.

Seriously? Can't be bothered being drawn into the same argument again.

I'll just ask this: that same ONE player got the minutes again so why stupid? It's still the same ONE player in five years.

 

[lomekian]

Seriously? Can't be bothered being drawn into the same argument again.

I'll just ask this: that same ONE player got the minutes again so why stupid? It's still the same ONE player in five years.

Because you said it was a political move or a desire to set a record, when it's obvious that the manager and the players rate Nwaneri, but are mindful of his physical and emotional development.

I listed all the players that left. I ask again, what would have been the point of giving them league debuts and when would it have been good to do it?

Also, much as it seems a modern trend to ignore it, context remains vital, as does looking at specifics rather than trying to equate fundamentally different things

 

[berric]

Because you said it was a political move or a desire to set a record, when it's obvious that the manager and the players rate Nwaneri, but are mindful of his physical and emotional development.

I listed all the players that left. I ask again, what would have been the point of giving them league debuts and when would it have been good to do it?

Also, much as it seems a modern trend to ignore it, context remains vital, as does looking at specifics rather than trying to equate fundamentally different things

How can you say playing Nwnaeri was a pure football motivation? It was widely reported to get more money in the tribunal - or, in the best case scenario get him to sign a new contract.

How can you explain that after that match he wasn't seen until two days ago, not even in dead rubber games?

How come Arteta said youngsters weren't ready to play a dead game at the Emirates but just a month afterward he's ready to come in an away match in the league? Was it his plan all along? Or the whispers around the club/football world became to loud to ignore?

Nevertheless, you lot bumping this discussion again after 2 weeks to gloat over Nwaneri's 15 minutes tell me all I need to know. You can take your "context" and shove it up your ass. When I hear the word "context" I just know there will be some strawman arguments involved.

 

[berric]

Actually not sure why are you arguing at all?

I was criticising Arteta's management of young players and if he keeps improving it's good.

We're lucky there are people out there who ask him questions or open up such subjects so he can adapt and improve, which he seems to be doing.

Even he himself will be quicker to admit he was wrong than some of the folks who support him to death lmao.

 

[Paperino]

So Nwaneri got 10-15 minutes (just like Soares while Elneny got more minutes) when it was 6-0 and we are suddenly supposed to pretend that Teta want to use youngsters? Come on. It seems like he actually didnt intend to bring Nwaneri on at all since other players on the bench felt they had to tell him to do it.

 

[Dennis_Bergkamp_10]

So Nwaneri got 10-15 minutes (just like Soares while Elneny got more minutes) when it was 6-0 and we are suddenly supposed to pretend that Teta want to use youngsters? Come on. It seems like he actually didnt intend to bring Nwaneri on at all since other players on the bench felt they had to tell him to do it.

Arteta not playing youngsters, posters crying. Arteta playing youngsters, same posters crying.

 

[lomekian]

How can you say playing Nwnaeri was a pure football motivation? It was widely reported to get more money in the tribunal - or, in the best case scenario get him to sign a new contract.

How can you explain that after that match he wasn't seen until two days ago, not even in dead rubber games?

How come Arteta said youngsters weren't ready to play a dead game at the Emirates but just a month afterward he's ready to come in an away match in the league? Was it his plan all along? Or the whispers around the club/football world became to loud to ignore?

Nevertheless, you lot bumping this discussion again after 2 weeks to gloat over Nwaneri's 15 minutes tell me all I need to know. You can take your "context" and shove it up your ass. When I hear the word "context" I just know there will be some strawman arguments involved.

Has Arteta given minutes to anyone else for tribunal or contractual purposes? Thus he got minutes because he was the one rated most - and when we had all other options in attacking midfield injured.

He didn't get minutes in other games because when we haven't had so many players missing through injury in midfield, we've had trouble even getting all first team squad players on the bench. He got minutes vs WHU because we had an unassailable lead and 1/3 of the squad missing through injury.

He got to come on because we were 6-0 up and those who would have been ahead of him off the bench were absent. Arteta has shown repeatedly he doesn't give a **** about 'whispers'.

And I wasn't bumping to gloat about Nwaneri's cameo. I didn't bump the thread - I merely replied to your message that I had previously missed when someone else bumped the thread. I'm working full time, raising a toddler and having health issues - I can barely remember what did yesterday let alone what some random person on the internet wrote a fortnight before.

 

[berric]

Has Arteta given minutes to anyone else for tribunal or contractual purposes? Thus he got minutes because he was the one rated most - and when we had all other options in attacking midfield injured.

He didn't get minutes in other games because when we haven't had so many players missing through injury in midfield, we've had trouble even getting all first team squad players on the bench. He got minutes vs WHU because we had an unassailable lead and 1/3 of the squad missing through injury.

He got to come on because we were 6-0 up and those who would have been ahead of him off the bench were absent. Arteta has shown repeatedly he doesn't give a **** about 'whispers'.

And I wasn't bumping to gloat about Nwaneri's cameo. I didn't bump the thread - I merely replied to your message that I had previously missed when someone else bumped the thread. I'm working full time, raising a toddler and having health issues - I can barely remember what did yesterday let alone what some random person on the internet wrote a fortnight before.

I don't buy it. He was ready to come on when he was 15 years old because he was rated (for context lmao it was an away game in the league), but a year and a half later he wasn't ready to come on in a dead game...

Anyway, let's agree to disagree here. Don't want to debate this into oblivion and hope you'll get well soon. This thread is due a lock anyway.

 

[Rasmi]

I don't buy it. He was ready to come on when he was 15 years old because he was rated (for context lmao it was an away game in the league), but a year and a half later he wasn't ready to come on in a dead game...

Anyway, let's agree to disagree here. Don't want to debate this into oblivion and hope you'll get well soon. This thread is due a lock anyway.

He was played at 15 because Arteta was ordered to give him debut as the club feared he would leave and wanted bigger compensation as the youngest pl player ever. Arteta had nothing to do with it

 

[MutableEarth]

He was played at 15 because Arteta was ordered to give him debut as the club feared he would leave and wanted bigger compensation as the youngest pl player ever. Arteta had nothing to do with it

It was both tbh. Yes Nwaneri is our current biggest jewel and is the most talented but him potentially leaving definitely had a little something to do with it - it was a perfect storm. Nwaneri's people played it perfectly to get him the bag, and he got a historic debut out of it. Fair play.

 

[A_G]