Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[Batman]

If you're so inclined to have a look at Özil's IG story, Bernd Leno singing followed by Petr Cech rapping is a pretty good laugh. The lads look to be really enjoying themselves out there.

 

[GunnerBP]

Exactly what I mean. America is a country of people who have migrated to build better lives earlier or later, while Europe is a continent of small nations.

Yeah, this discussion comparing German and American racism or immigrant experiences is kind of ridiculous.

Sure, there are white immigrants that come to America that enjoy their experience, but that kind of isn't the point for this conversation. Immigration isn't just about the perspective of a first generation immigrant. It is about the successful assimilation of the first, second, third, etc. generation of that family into the new country.

Mesut Özil didn't immigrate to Germany, his parents did. Much of his response is that he feels German, but also respects where his parents came from, which is Turkey. Hypothetically, Özil's father may be of the opinion that Germany is the "best" country to immigrate to because it welcomed him, he had new opportunities, and whatever, but there clearly remains an obvious problem if his German son is not considered German because he has Turkish parents.

Also, fellow Germans like Podolski and Klose, who were born in Poland, never get the type of treatment that Özil does. Also, Boateng, who was born in Berlin, has received similar treatment to Özil. Özil mentions this in his statement and rightfully concludes that the immigrant experience varies in Germany based on your race. This is an issue of racism, and not immigration.

So we're not only talking about a second generation's experience and not a first's, but also how that experience varies based on your race.

When we talk about immigration in the US we need to examine the immigration experiences of white and non-white people over generations, and not just the perspective of the first generation.

America has tons of first-generation immigrants that love America, and then they watch their Muslim, Latino, Asian, and African children face near constant discrimination and are treated as second-class citizens.

Since Trump has taken office racist attacks have gone up, and especially in schools, and it isn't that Trump "made" Americans more racist, he just encouraged them to express the racism they already had.

Also, the freedoms that white immigrants regularly celebrate in America that they perceive as an example of American equality and fairness, are more like exclusive privileges that were made for white Americans. Anyone leaving a troubled country will really enjoy becoming part of the privileged class of another country.

American society is founded upon separating white and non-white people and ensuring that the whites are the "haves" and the non-white are the "have-nots." America is also really good a disguising this incredibly obvious cultural foundation. America is so good at camouflaging this reality that a white immigrant, who has no desire to be racist and works hard to treat everyone equally, can perceive his opportunities and experiences in this new country as the organic byproduct of a just and fair society, and not an extension of the race-based privileges he receives from a society founded on racism. This really is an astonishing inversion of reality.

Also, it is fascinating how the children of white immigrants process their "whiteness." Some feel white guilt, others embrace America's racist roots, and many remain incredibly conflicted. A second generation white immigrant might be pressured to tease or bully a second generation Muslim, Latino, Asian, or African immigrant because their new American white identity can condone or encourage this type of abuse. This is America.

I could talk about this for a while, but conflating the experience of first and second generation immigration as just "immigration" speaks to a major issue with this conversation because Mesut Özil and other second generations didn't immigrate to anywhere.

Also, speaking about America, a society and culture founded on racism in the Americas that predates the creation of the United States of America, as being better at handling race issues and being a more equal society really demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the United States.

 

[razörist]

If you're so inclined to have a look at Özil's IG story, Bernd Leno singing followed by Petr Cech rapping is a pretty good laugh. The lads look to be really enjoying themselves out there.

Hahahah that was great.

 

[Batman]

Yeah, this discussion comparing German and American racism or immigrant experiences is kind of ridiculous.

Sure, there are white immigrants that come to America that enjoy their experience, but that kind of isn't the point for this conversation. Immigration isn't just about the perspective of a first generation immigrant. It is about the successful assimilation of the first, second, third, etc. generation of that family into the new country.

Mesut Özil didn't immigrate to Germany, his parents did. Much of his response is that he feels German, but also respects where his parents came from, which is Turkey. Hypothetically, Özil's father may be of the opinion that Germany is the "best" country to immigrate to because it welcomed him, he had new opportunities, and whatever, but there clearly remains an obvious problem if his German son is not considered German because he has Turkish parents.

Also, fellow Germans like Podolski and Klose, who were born in Poland, never get the type of treatment that Özil does. Also, Boateng, who was born in Berlin, has received similar treatment to Özil. Özil mentions this in his statement and rightfully concludes that the immigrant experience varies in Germany based on your race. This is an issue of racism, and not immigration.

So we're not only talking about a second generation's experience and not a first's, but also how that experience varies based on your race.

When we talk about immigration in the US we need to examine the immigration experiences of white and non-white people over generations, and not just the perspective of the first generation.

America has tons of first-generation immigrants that love America, and then they watch their Muslim, Latino, Asian, and African children face near constant discrimination and are treated as second-class citizens.

Since Trump has taken office racist attacks have gone up, and especially in schools, and it isn't that Trump "made" Americans more racist, he just encouraged them to express the racism they already had.

Also, the freedoms that white immigrants regularly celebrate in America that they perceive as an example of American equality and fairness, are more like exclusive privileges that were made for white Americans. Anyone leaving a troubled country will really enjoy becoming part of the privileged class of another country.

American society is founded upon separating white and non-white people and ensuring that the whites are the "haves" and the non-white are the "have-nots." America is also really good a disguising this incredibly obvious cultural foundation. America is so good at camouflaging this reality that a white immigrant, who has no desire to be racist and works hard to treat everyone equally, can perceive his opportunities and experiences in this new country as the organic byproduct of a just and fair society, and not an extension of the race-based privileges he receives from a society founded on racism. This really is an astonishing inversion of reality.

Also, it is fascinating how the children of white immigrants process their "whiteness." Some feel white guilt, others embrace America's racist roots, and many remain incredibly conflicted. A second generation white immigrant might be pressured to tease or bully a second generation Muslim, Latino, Asian, or African immigrant because their new American white identity can condone or encourage this type of abuse. This is America.

I could talk about this for a while, but conflating the experience of first and second generation immigration as just "immigration" speaks to a major issue with this conversation because Mesut Özil and other second generations didn't immigrate to anywhere.

Also, speaking about America, a society and culture founded on racism in the Americas that predates the creation of the United States of America, as being better at handling race issues and being a more equal society really demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the United States.

Absolutely top post. Brilliant from top to bottom.

 

[celestis]

Yeah, this discussion comparing German and American racism or immigrant experiences is kind of ridiculous.

Sure, there are white immigrants that come to America that enjoy their experience, but that kind of isn't the point for this conversation. Immigration isn't just about the perspective of a first generation immigrant. It is about the successful assimilation of the first, second, third, etc. generation of that family into the new country.

Mesut Özil didn't immigrate to Germany, his parents did. Much of his response is that he feels German, but also respects where his parents came from, which is Turkey. Hypothetically, Özil's father may be of the opinion that Germany is the "best" country to immigrate to because it welcomed him, he had new opportunities, and whatever, but there clearly remains an obvious problem if his German son is not considered German because he has Turkish parents.

Also, fellow Germans like Podolski and Klose, who were born in Poland, never get the type of treatment that Özil does. Also, Boateng, who was born in Berlin, has received similar treatment to Özil. Özil mentions this in his statement and rightfully concludes that the immigrant experience varies in Germany based on your race. This is an issue of racism, and not immigration.

So we're not only talking about a second generation's experience and not a first's, but also how that experience varies based on your race.

When we talk about immigration in the US we need to examine the immigration experiences of white and non-white people over generations, and not just the perspective of the first generation.

America has tons of first-generation immigrants that love America, and then they watch their Muslim, Latino, Asian, and African children face near constant discrimination and are treated as second-class citizens.

Since Trump has taken office racist attacks have gone up, and especially in schools, and it isn't that Trump "made" Americans more racist, he just encouraged them to express the racism they already had.

Also, the freedoms that white immigrants regularly celebrate in America that they perceive as an example of American equality and fairness, are more like exclusive privileges that were made for white Americans. Anyone leaving a troubled country will really enjoy becoming part of the privileged class of another country.

American society is founded upon separating white and non-white people and ensuring that the whites are the "haves" and the non-white are the "have-nots." America is also really good a disguising this incredibly obvious cultural foundation. America is so good at camouflaging this reality that a white immigrant, who has no desire to be racist and works hard to treat everyone equally, can perceive his opportunities and experiences in this new country as the organic byproduct of a just and fair society, and not an extension of the race-based privileges he receives from a society founded on racism. This really is an astonishing inversion of reality.

Also, it is fascinating how the children of white immigrants process their "whiteness." Some feel white guilt, others embrace America's racist roots, and many remain incredibly conflicted. A second generation white immigrant might be pressured to tease or bully a second generation Muslim, Latino, Asian, or African immigrant because their new American white identity can condone or encourage this type of abuse. This is America.

I could talk about this for a while, but conflating the experience of first and second generation immigration as just "immigration" speaks to a major issue with this conversation because Mesut Özil and other second generations didn't immigrate to anywhere.

Also, speaking about America, a society and culture founded on racism in the Americas that predates the creation of the United States of America, as being better at handling race issues and being a more equal society really demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the United States.

Actually BP Polish and other Eastern European immigrants were discriminated against .

 

[wayne189]

Actually BP Polish and other Eastern European immigrants were discriminated against .

As were the Irish and Chinese and many others

 

[celestis]

As were the Irish and Chinese and many others

Yup always amazed by how much discrimination the Irish suffered in England and America .

 

[celestis]

Yeah not so much now obviously.
As I said I have friends here from all backgrounds and the dislike for Black people has increased in the last 5-6 years. The reasons I hear are in proportion the their population are highest crime rate, highest welfare, highest unemployment, entitlement. And why have other races managed to go work and contribute without these issues And this was said not just by whites but also Asians and Latinos.

It's something that quite a few races have endured at some point , including Asians , Latinos etc. Unfortunately they tend to have short memories once they "make it ". Just because they say it doesn't make it right .

 

[wayne189]

It's something that quite a few races have endured at some point , including Asians , Latinos etc. Unfortunately they tend to have short memories once they "make it ". Just because they say it doesn't make it right .

Yanks as a whole are not racist or bad people they just expect anyone no matter the race to work and contribute.
As for immigration the Americans I know are for legal immigration but it has do be done the correct way. This includes Europeans who have over stayed work visas and or educational visas.

 

[wayne189]

As for Özil hopefully he can have a great season

 

[YeahBee]

Lived with a bunch of american Exchange students

All of them were pretty clear about what they were before american like irish american, italian-american, etc etc so I asked the sole aussie in our dorm and his answer was "we are all mongrels mate"

 

[Fewtch]

Yanks as a whole are not racist or bad people they just expect anyone no matter the race to work and contribute.
As for immigration the Americans I know are for legal immigration but it has do be done the correct way. This includes Europeans who have over stayed work visas and or educational visas.

But yanks as a whole elected a racist president...

 

[wayne189]

But yanks as a whole elected a racist president...

Trump is a tool but not sure he is a racist tbh he even has a jewish son in law. He def puts his foot in his mouth but the media make so many stories

 

[Fewtch]

Anyways, it’s been a couple of days since the Özil trilogy and this discussion has went off on complete tangent that has nothing to do with özil and I suggest that we kill this conversation now before more people continue to expose themselves for their shocking views and opinions.

 

[YeahBee]

But yanks as a whole elected a racist president...

The US has silly low turnout
Half of them voted Trump .most of them probably just because he was the repub candidate

Many probably voted Trump to not vote Hillary who is shady in her own way

So yanks as a whole didn't elect Trump

 

[Fewtch]

Trump is a tool but not sure he is a racist tbh he even has a jewish son in law. He def puts his foot in his mouth but the media make so many stories

He’s 100% a racist

 

[wayne189]

He’s 100% a racist

Entitled to your opinion, I don’t think he’s a racist I just think he’s a tool that is an awful public speaker

 

[YeahBee]

Anyways, it’s been a couple of days since the Özil trilogy and this discussion has went off on complete tangent that has nothing to do with özil and I suggest that we kill this conversation now before more people continue to expose themselves for their shocking views and opinions.

So there should only be one approved opinion?

This is part of what is wrong today. Open discussions and a high ceiling is good

Nobody learns and changes their mind by being told they are wrong repetedly.

Anyway most internet discussions isnt to change somebody elses mind, but maybe to catch the eye of a third undecided party

Hence why I reply to just about anyone who praises Monreal or dissen Xhaka

 

[wayne189]

Although we Are not talking directly about Özil the discussion has been good and no one has been aggressive or attacking any other posters l. it has been surprisingly mellow

 

[Fewtch]

So there should only be one approved opinion?

This is part of what is wrong today. Open discussions and a high ceiling is good

Nobody learns and changes their mind by being told they are wrong repetedly.

Anyway most internet discussions isnt to change somebody elses mind, but maybe to catch the eye of a third undecided party

Hence why I reply to just about anyone who praises Monreal or dissen Xhaka

No that’s not what I meant. I just suggested that we should stop talking about non-özil related posts in the özil thread. I’m pretty sure that there’s a general discussion section for these types of discussions.