Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Rex Stone]

I dunno, run a survey among season ticket holders asking why they stayed away despite winning FA cups and getting to the latter stages of the EL (with aside more than capable of winning it, mind). Ask them if the likelihood of us continuing to decline in the league, but picking up another FA cup and going further than ever before in the EL is any worse... I don’t think they give a **** to be honest. I think that just be happy to have a different kind of hope. That’s obviously how a lot of fans felt. They were just tired of the same **** identical every season, only finding new ways to fail.

I genuinely don’t get why people care so much about this FA Cup tbh. Four years ago it was made out to be a glorified Community Shield on here when we won but now apparently it’s like winning the Champions League.

It’s also really tough for me to remember the Europa League 2018/19 fondly. We had an easier run to the final than the year before and in a huge game for the club got battered by a bitter rival and their zombie manager who’d already qualified for top 4 in the league. That’s one of my lowest points supporting the team.

If you were Wenger Out then fine I respect that but surely you can just call a spade a spade when you see how grim we are now?

 

[say yes]

There’s nothing wrong with what @Sweet'n'Soulful said there..

The most depressing thing about Wenger towards the end was how repetitive & predictable it all was. People can revise history all they want, but it was clear he was finished at the top level after the Leicester debacle. Wasn’t winning a league title again.

Doesn’t mean that he was an awful manager, or that anyone would be an improvement. In fact, I got a lot of stick from both sides of the divide when I argued we needed to move on even though we were likely to get worse. Most managers aren’t a success.

But having Wenger was like rolling dice with numbers 1,2 and 6 scratched out. You knew he was going to give you a 6-10 /12 performance, guaranteed each season. But you also knew at the end he was not going to get 11-12 /12, which is what you need to win the title. That’s why I wanted to roll a fresh set of dice, even if the average roll is lower - there’s always a chance of hitting the jackpot. And hope of winning the jackpot is what football is all about.

 

[Rex Stone]

There’s nothing wrong with what @Sweet'n'Soulful said there..

The most depressing thing about Wenger towards the end was how repetitive & predictable it all was. People can revise history all they want, but it was clear he was finished at the top level after the Leicester debacle. Wasn’t winning a league title again.

Doesn’t mean that he was an awful manager, or that anyone would be an improvement. In fact, I got a lot of stick from both sides of the divide when I argued we needed to move on even though we were likely to get worse. Most managers aren’t a success.

But having Wenger was like rolling dice with numbers 1,2 and 6 scratched out. You knew he was going to give you a 6-10 /12 performance, guaranteed each season. But you also knew at the end he was not going to get 11-12 /12, which is what you need to win the title. That’s why I wanted to roll a fresh set of dice, even if the average roll is lower - there’s always a chance of hitting the jackpot. And hope of winning the jackpot is what football is all about.

Why don’t you want to roll the dice again now though following that logic?

One of the arguments I keep seeing on here is we shouldn’t keep changing managers for the sake of it but apparently it was fine with Wenger?

 

[GDeep™]

Less of a laughing stock now that we’ve become a midtable club? That’s a new one .

 

[Garrincha]

now with Arteta we are rolling just one dice

 

[say yes]

Why don’t you want to roll the dice again now though following that logic?

One of the arguments I keep seeing on here is we shouldn’t keep changing managers for the sake of it but apparently it was fine with Wenger?

Because I’m not decided on Arteta yet. Haven’t seen enough. But yeah, I’d have no problem rolling again if I decide he’s not up to it. That’s what a big club should do.

 

[kash2]

Why don’t you want to roll the dice again now though following that logic?

One of the arguments I keep seeing on here is we shouldn’t keep changing managers for the sake of it but apparently it was fine with Wenger?

i cant get how people are talking this so soon after that absolutely lifeless performance against City. This looks like the jackpot?

 

[Red London]

There’s nothing wrong with what @Sweet'n'Soulful said there..

The most depressing thing about Wenger towards the end was how repetitive & predictable it all was. People can revise history all they want, but it was clear he was finished at the top level after the Leicester debacle. Wasn’t winning a league title again.

Doesn’t mean that he was an awful manager, or that anyone would be an improvement. In fact, I got a lot of stick from both sides of the divide when I argued we needed to move on even though we were likely to get worse. Most managers aren’t a success.

But having Wenger was like rolling dice with numbers 1,2 and 6 scratched out. You knew he was going to give you a 6-10 /12 performance, guaranteed each season. But you also knew at the end he was not going to get 11-12 /12, which is what you need to win the title. That’s why I wanted to roll a fresh set of dice, even if the average roll is lower - there’s always a chance of hitting the jackpot. And hope of winning the jackpot is what football is all about.

Well put. I don't get why people are acting like we were so stupid to part ways with Wenger. He was never going to be here forever, and we did it just as he started dropping out of the top 4 due to the rest of the league being more competitive. A lot of people were aware we may well drop off after him for a while, we literally saw what happened to United who had a very similar situation with their legend manager leaving after 20+ years. United are bigger with us with bigger resources so if they can take this dip then so can we. United are recovering through patience in a manager who is overseeing lots of players leaving and new ones coming in. When they kept changing managers (and lets be honest here, at the time Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were all decent appointments), they were compounding themselves with a lot of issues as these guys wanted to bring in their 'own men'. I guess Arteta did so with Willian but in my opinion all managers are going to want to get whoever they think improves them, its the board that are meant to set the tone, this is my main concern these days. I don't think we have enough experience in the management of this club. We clearly need an older head in the boardroom.

 

[say yes]

now with Arteta we are rolling just one dice

Die

(Not a threat, dice is the plural term)

 

[Rex Stone]

Because I’m not decided on Arteta yet. Haven’t seen enough.

How much time you giving him though? That Klopp comparison I kept seeing is finished seen as he got to a European final in his first half season then managed top 4 in the league in his first full one.

We’re potentially going the other way compared to last year and might not even finish top half.

 

[Garrincha]

Die

reported

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I dunno, run a survey among season ticket holders asking why they stayed away despite winning FA cups and getting to the latter stages of the EL (with aside more than capable of winning it, mind). Ask them if the likelihood of us continuing to decline in the league, but picking up another FA cup and going further than ever before in the EL is any worse... I don’t think they give a **** to be honest. I think they’d just be happy to have a different kind of hope. That’s obviously how a lot of fans felt. They were just tired of the same ****, identical every season, only finding new ways to fail.

Despite our league position, I’m 100 times more excited to watch our games these days compared to the last two years of Wenger. I feel more passionate about our results and the defeats hurt me far more than I can remember. A lot of fans feel like that as well. Despite our lower league position, We are strangely far less of a laughing stock these days. Very odd.

So basically you just personally disliked Arsène Wenger and don't care what happens to Arsenal has long as he's not here anymore. So weird to hate a manager hat brought so much success to Arsenal but I guess that's what you get when dealing with weirdo old men like yourself and Claude.

Arsenal now is worse then we ever were under Arsène, there's nothing exciting in our games. At least with Arsène you knew he could get us back into the top 4, wtf can Arteta do?

 

[say yes]

How much time you giving him though? That Klopp comparison I kept seeing is finished seen as he got to a European final in his first half season then managed top 4 in the league in his first full one.

We’re potentially going the other way compared to last year and might not even finish top half.

Depends on how we perform. Next season is the big one for me, but if we go through another period of awful form then we may need to decide earlier.

 

[goonergaz]

So your defense of Arteta is that to fix Arsenal we need to break it and rebuild it, by dropping out of all European competitions and only focus on the league the next season.

I can see the thinking but it’s a flawed logic to be honest. The negatives far outweigh the positives. I don’t think that’s the hill Arteta fans want to die on.

That's not what I said, I said sometimes you need to break something down and rebuild it to make it better (rather than trying to patch it up). So far we've had a good clear out of dead wood and a couple of players bought - given another window and good buys we could be in a much better position.

Also regarding Europa League, I said it may be a blessing in disguise for 2 reasons;
1) Kroenke will have to back the club or be found out and we will finally know where the concentration of our frustrations should go
2) Maybe a season out Europe will give the manager a chance to concentrate on getting a decent system in place and position in the league, look at West Ham - are they really that good?

I appreciate there's a cost involved, but as I said, sometimes you need to take a hit to move forward. Both Man U and Liverpool have (fairly) recently had a season with no European football.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Forum has gone downhill since likes were introduced, incentivizes members to troll, insult and post memes rather than display deep footballing knowledge that OnlyDeep consistently demonstrates.

@Riou

 

[say yes]

At the risk of injecting an overdose of rationality into this thread:

Being midtable mid-season isn't the same as being a midtable club.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yep, it was that bad. Football was dead. Look at the stadium the players were playing to, they were only slightly more full than they are now. The fans were done. But I guess that didn’t happen either...

If football was dead to you then, you must be suicidal at the mid table nothingness we're getting used to now.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Some posts are so stupid you can't react directly to them lest you get caught up in the whirlwind of disgrace yourself.

I have to say Blaze, you've really hit another level of posting ever since you took my life advice. Have to give you props.

 

[Makingtrax]

We are strangely far less of a laughing stock these days. Very odd.

There's nothing odd about it. Fans at the top clubs are passed laughing at us, we're that far beneath them, they just feel sorry for us now we've sunk out of sight. My Liverpool supporting 5-a side mates haven't been ribbing me for two years.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

i cant get how people are talking this so soon after that absolutely lifeless performance against City. This looks like the jackpot?

Not exactly the result to compare Arteta with Wenger's later years here.

We'd definitely have been more potent going forward under later years Wenger I'm not going to deny that. The problem is we'd probably have conceded 4-5 with how open we'd have played.

It's not a huge sample size but Arteta is a better tactician against top end teams than later years Wenger was. I think that's hard to dispute, even for non Arteta fans.