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Mikel Arteta: Serial Non-Negotiator

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

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What should the minimum target for this season?

  1. Top 4 Finish

  2. Europa League Win

  3. A Realistic Top 4 Challenge

  4. A Domestic Trophy

  5. Getting the Team/Attack Clicking Irrespective of League Finish or Trophies

  6. Give Him Until The End of The Season Regardless

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Trilly

    Trilly The John Sauce Of Ilford Trusted

    If we give him his desired midfield then I’m not going to be super patient with regards to the suffer ball he likes to play.

    I really don’t want to be seeing that 343 at home to a Brighton or something.
     
  2. akhil

    akhil Well-Known Member

    I'm looking for progress though. After Aston Villa at the tail end of last season, I was wondering if he'll change things with the new season with only 1 striker starting and proper wide player on the left. It was similar story against West Ham though.

    Xhaka still has way too much to do, he's still our most important defensive midfielder and creator in the middle. Him and Ceballos together sort of works but both are still very static. Luiz still starts when fit which causes us to drop 10-15 yards deeper than necessary.
     
  3. Big Poppa

    Big Poppa Well-Known Member Trusted

    That’s why we’re still active in the market though. I don’t think this is the squad he sold Auba to during contract discussions. Let’s hope we can get one or two of those deals over the line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
    SA Gunner and akhil like this.
  4. GunnerShy

    GunnerShy Well-Known Member

    Lol!

    You've rubbed a few up the wrong way but you're not far off.

    Defensively we are very different now. Less open more resolute less likely to throw away a 2-0 lead to Crystal Palace.

    But if viewed through a lens of just the attack then you're about right. Few nicer 15+ pass goals but over all little creation. Unsurprising... It's the same midfield after all!
     
    Macho likes this.
  5. akhil

    akhil Well-Known Member

    Like you said in the other post, some of these changes could be done internally with the youngsters as well without the need for new arrivals. They aren't super raw now; Nelson, Willock, Saka and Nketiah have decent first team and PL exposure to not be a liability or overawed any more. Willock and Saka especially.

    Not discounting the need for new arrivals. But I'm talking more about the style and formation.
     
  6. kash2

    kash2 Obsessed With Jury

    theres a reason Arsène packed his squad with midfielders, and why klopp does likewise. Also if your wide forwards cant pin back the opposing fullbacks and keep them honest, then Salah and Mane will cause havoc.

    Arteta went into the match already beaten, just like Emery used to do, and in a way like Arsène used to do. An approach built around minimizing damage against the top 4 and tonking everyone else and sneaking into champions league places.

    Can still work, but I miss the days when we went again prime barcelona and the fans had hope and the team had pride in their club.
     
    Trilly and Tourbillion like this.
  7. DUFFMAN

    DUFFMAN Active Member

    Playing Aubu on the left needs to be the first thing out the window going forward.
     
    Kevin Keegan likes this.
  8. Ozil'sCloakOfInvisibility

    Ozil'sCloakOfInvisibility Not a Closet Spurs Fan

    Wenger didn't always do that. The 8-2s, 6-0s and 5-1s forced him to be more pragmatic.
     
    Pyres7 likes this.
  9. kash2

    kash2 Obsessed With Jury

    yes.. Wenger never cared about minizing damage either....a loss was a loss for him... Wenger went for the league as recently as 5 yrs ago. Still in some games towards the end, the team went in already beaten, specially if the squad was weakened by injuries or by wantaway players throwing hissy fits.
     
  10. nick gould

    nick gould Well-Known Member

    The liverpool game left a bad aftertaste in my mouth. I have a PTS. I can't even bring myself to watch the match on Arsenal Player again or even listen to fellow gunners mourning about the match. The only way I can get over it would be if we smack them to a new one on Thursday using 4 at the back with Gabriel and Saliba. Make it happen Arteta. Or just announce Partey and Aouar.
     
  11. Kav

    Kav Well-Known Member

    I have watched Camavinga but he does not have the exceptional attributes that Fabregas had at 16/17 or that Mbappe had when he was younger. Not even to mention the great Ronaldinho who was doing incredible things as. A teenager. There are those who are good but hyped and there are those who are excellent regardless of any hype or criticism. Camavinga falls into the former. He’s good for his age but I would not have him in my first 22 if I could pick any 22 players around the world. Would you?
     
  12. Kav

    Kav Well-Known Member

    I don’t think Wenger ever had an inferiority complex with any opposition. I actually think it was the opposite, he was quite confident that he could beat any team. Though he knew when he was the under dog but he always set his teams up with the potential to win. Scoring goals and creating chances were never an issue under Wenger, the defense was the issue in the latter years. Under Arteta and Emery we struggle to both create chances and score goals. Our shots per game has dropped off a cliff in some seasons but we have become a sturdier team.

    Unless we have the right pieces we won’t have the best of both worlds and let’s all be honest. We knew the rebuild would take time. At least 3-4 years.
     
    vantoure likes this.
  13. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Absolutely right. That's what Arsène did when the weight of fan pressure started to get him . . he resorted to being a reactive manager. Add in some panic buys like Perez and Mustafi, and it's the reason he went backwards.

    Arteta needs to get the midfield working and he'll need some purchases. Mari, Cedric, Luiz and Willian will just prove to be another poor window. At least Gabriel might show his worth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
    kash2 likes this.
  14. Kevin Keegan

    Kevin Keegan Member

    So far what are Mikel's weaknesses as a manager?
     
  15. Macho

    Macho Well-Known Member Trusted

    - Leans on experience, reluctant to trust youth
    - Late and ineffective subs
    - Overly pragmatic and cautious approach to every match
    - Management of fringe players could be better. Luckily its nobody influential just yet and no fans, he's been allowed to work in peace so far.

    Not that this was asked, but strengths:

    - tactically he is very strong
    - man management seems great, has the senior players onside when our previous managers have failed this
    - communication is superb - to players and media
    - has an aura of authority and confidence - easy to forget this is his first managerial job and learning as he goes along

    All in my opinion of course.
     
    Wrighty4eva, Moah and Kevin Keegan like this.
  16. BigPoppaPump

    BigPoppaPump Contrarian

    Tbh all your strengths sound like the same thing apart from 'tactically he's very strong' which doesn't mean much.

    Arteta still has a lot to prove, too many people singing his praises for the minimum.
     
  17. Macho

    Macho Well-Known Member Trusted

    Now that you mention it, they do overlap. Especially communication and man management I guess.

    Tactics is his USP anyways I think. I would have though youth development would have been one of them but so far this season + FA cup semi finals onwards he’s refrained from using them.
     
  18. Moah

    Moah Well-Known Member

    Adding on that weakness points, I also think he isn't the type of coach for players that are technical but with a passive behavior.

    I think sometimes work rate should be swapped with technicality. Meaning some technically gifted players should get a pass for their less work off the ball. I doubt I'm making sense on my description though.
     
  19. Macho

    Macho Well-Known Member Trusted

    Nah you make perfect sense. This is how Wenger and the French national team functioned.
    This is the angle many Özil fans use to justify his inclusion to the team.

    Not sure if it works in the prem currently. You look at the top of the table and it’s clear you need both, but yeah Arteta seems to have very little time the type of players you speak of (Pepe and Özil are good examples).

    Im personally not mad at this, the ends justify the means. Usually.

    Maybe if he got the players we needs he would be more open to including technical but passive players?
     
    Moah likes this.
  20. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure how much more Arteta could do re: youth development, tbh, Saka has continued to improve under him, AMN has improved, Nketiah has come in and become a part of the team where Emery didn't trust him, young players finally have a coherent tactical instruction.

    I guess you could say Nelson but he's gotta balance results in a time where we are desperate for results, and he's got a player who in terms of tactical maturity is basically a youth player, in Pepe, in front of him.

    I guess Ceballos wouldn't be called youth development but he also, unsurprisingly, made use of the talent there that Basque Mark Hughes didn't.
     

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