Biggus
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Forget about Cesc Mags, mentally he's already packing his bags.
mags said:
Forget about Cesc Mags, mentally he's already packing his bags.
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PL: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | 15/11/08
- Thread starter AnthonyG
- Start date
- Replies 888
- Views 25,835
TomasCR
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
At least it´s just mentally. Who knows how long it will take until we see him doing so physically.
At least it´s just mentally. Who knows how long it will take until we see him doing so physically.
True Gooner
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Isnt that worse?
Isnt that worse?
kamikaze80
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
essien, mikel, ballack, hargreaves, carrick, possibly fletcher, alonso, mascherano, sidwell, barry, reo-coker, maybe osman, maybe parker, cahill, l diarra, m johnson, palacios is close to 20.
i dont care how old denilson is, i know wenger doesnt. if youre good enough, youre old enough, but if youre not good enough, you should be on the bench.
essien, mikel, ballack, hargreaves, carrick, possibly fletcher, alonso, mascherano, sidwell, barry, reo-coker, maybe osman, maybe parker, cahill, l diarra, m johnson, palacios is close to 20.
i dont care how old denilson is, i know wenger doesnt. if youre good enough, youre old enough, but if youre not good enough, you should be on the bench.
True Gooner
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
I think that list is harsh Kami.
Not that I care tbh, Denilson is not doing his job and can be replaced if Wenger really puts his mind to the task.
I think that list is harsh Kami.
Not that I care tbh, Denilson is not doing his job and can be replaced if Wenger really puts his mind to the task.
TomasCR
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
That´s it! And who has the right to put you on the bench if you´re not good enough? A manager, who we are going to throw all the blame at then? You know the answer...
Denilson has got far too many bad responses from the fans. It´s not like he doesn´t want enough, it´s just he can´t do more.
That´s it! And who has the right to put you on the bench if you´re not good enough? A manager, who we are going to throw all the blame at then? You know the answer...
Denilson has got far too many bad responses from the fans. It´s not like he doesn´t want enough, it´s just he can´t do more.
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
I haven't see the game, or any highlights, just the goals. From what i've heard, i can build a good enough picture of the performance in my head, going by our previous experiences of this gutless side. We knew going into the season that our midfield wasn't going to be strong enough, and yet again...****ing hell, it's like a broken ****ing record.
I can't believe i just let this side build my hopes up again on the back of last weekend. We all knew it was too good to be true, but just that bit of me thought MAYBE this was where we turned it around. What a load of bollocks.
I haven't see the game, or any highlights, just the goals. From what i've heard, i can build a good enough picture of the performance in my head, going by our previous experiences of this gutless side. We knew going into the season that our midfield wasn't going to be strong enough, and yet again...****ing hell, it's like a broken ****ing record.
I can't believe i just let this side build my hopes up again on the back of last weekend. We all knew it was too good to be true, but just that bit of me thought MAYBE this was where we turned it around. What a load of bollocks.
DOUBLE-YOU
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
i have just seen the game and i am surprised how sloppy we were through out. rarely have i seen clichy play so bad. the whole back four were poor. these are our most experienced players and they didn't show up. once again everyone is blaming denilson for the teams poor performance, but everyone played poorly it wasn't just him. everwhere on the pitch we were out thought and out fought. it looked like the team was out the previous night.
usually we lose through missing chances, today we just didn't create. bendtner was played as a lone striker but he was never in the box enough. he also had no support when the ball arrived to him, although we never got the ball to him. i think we made it easy for villa starting with just one up front. from what i saw, walcott looked our best attacker but he didn't have the end product.
i will give credit to villa. they played really well. agbonlahor and ashley young were a constant problem and sidwell done well to disrupt our flow. to be honest they could have won by more.
i have just seen the game and i am surprised how sloppy we were through out. rarely have i seen clichy play so bad. the whole back four were poor. these are our most experienced players and they didn't show up. once again everyone is blaming denilson for the teams poor performance, but everyone played poorly it wasn't just him. everwhere on the pitch we were out thought and out fought. it looked like the team was out the previous night.
usually we lose through missing chances, today we just didn't create. bendtner was played as a lone striker but he was never in the box enough. he also had no support when the ball arrived to him, although we never got the ball to him. i think we made it easy for villa starting with just one up front. from what i saw, walcott looked our best attacker but he didn't have the end product.
i will give credit to villa. they played really well. agbonlahor and ashley young were a constant problem and sidwell done well to disrupt our flow. to be honest they could have won by more.
kanooo
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
I'm not sure if my expectation of this team has been lowered considerably or not but I think we didn't play as bad as the Hull game or the Stoke game actually.
I think Villa are due more credit for the win rather than our own performance.
We may have to accept the inevitable now and just see them try to get at least 4th. Despite all this, I think we still have enough to nick the 4th place.
With Everton also not doing quite as well, Villa are the only team that may challenge us for the 4th place and even they are inconsistant.
I'm not sure if my expectation of this team has been lowered considerably or not but I think we didn't play as bad as the Hull game or the Stoke game actually.
I think Villa are due more credit for the win rather than our own performance.
We may have to accept the inevitable now and just see them try to get at least 4th. Despite all this, I think we still have enough to nick the 4th place.
With Everton also not doing quite as well, Villa are the only team that may challenge us for the 4th place and even they are inconsistant.
General
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Just been watching a replay and Ade looked very animated on the bench, particularly after one of Bendtner's fukups. He probably was saying that Bendtner was hopeless. I remember the fracas against the yiddos in the CC last season all started because Ade said Bendtner was rubbish when he came on.
Just been watching a replay and Ade looked very animated on the bench, particularly after one of Bendtner's fukups. He probably was saying that Bendtner was hopeless. I remember the fracas against the yiddos in the CC last season all started because Ade said Bendtner was rubbish when he came on.
sabret00the
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
where are the runners? also even if he's half as bad as the people on here seem to think he is, you can't drop him when he's out performing the person who plays in the same position as him and is considered our star player. your only hope in seeing denilson dropped is for wenger to have the balls to drop cesc too.Big Poppa said:
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Disagree - the problem with the style is that it relys upon BOTH MCs doing their job together in order to create any defensive cover. Because this has been hit & miss this season we're now consigned to weakening our attack in order to place an extra body in the midfield, which still does not eradicate our defensive issues.
The system / style does NOT suit the capabilities of the player options AW has left himself with. This season to date has shown that his faith in internal development has been misplaced, and he's NOT as good as reading his players as he'd like us to think he is. AW should just bite the bullet & play Song as a DM & be done with it. At this rate we'll be struggling to maintain CL qualification if we wait until January.
As for Diaby starting in the hole - Villa was always going to have a more defensive mentality than ManU, & our attack was not going to be afforded the same space for movement. We needed to start with 2 strikers on the field, even if the 2nd was starting from the hole.
General said:
Disagree - the problem with the style is that it relys upon BOTH MCs doing their job together in order to create any defensive cover. Because this has been hit & miss this season we're now consigned to weakening our attack in order to place an extra body in the midfield, which still does not eradicate our defensive issues.
The system / style does NOT suit the capabilities of the player options AW has left himself with. This season to date has shown that his faith in internal development has been misplaced, and he's NOT as good as reading his players as he'd like us to think he is. AW should just bite the bullet & play Song as a DM & be done with it. At this rate we'll be struggling to maintain CL qualification if we wait until January.
As for Diaby starting in the hole - Villa was always going to have a more defensive mentality than ManU, & our attack was not going to be afforded the same space for movement. We needed to start with 2 strikers on the field, even if the 2nd was starting from the hole.
dos1986
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Any link to this?
Or any idea what channel showed it/ any clue that will help me find it?
Doesnt suprise me, as I have being saying Theo's pace is over-rated for a long time.
bluenaz said:
Any link to this?
Or any idea what channel showed it/ any clue that will help me find it?
Doesnt suprise me, as I have being saying Theo's pace is over-rated for a long time.
AliBabaBrewer
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
I speak s**t
AliBabaBrewer said:
I speak s**t
General
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
You’d have had to have been at Colney with Pat, Boro and Wenger with all the data at hand to really formulate a valid opinion on systems. Distance covered in the previous game, individual performance, recovery period et cetera, are data you and I have no access to and they inevitably form a vital part of team set up. By all means we can question the rationality of Wenger’s decisions and thought process as well as the competence of personnel but saying “the system / style does NOT suit the capabilities of the player options AW has left himself with” is stretching it. I certainly agree with you that his faith in internal development is very much misplaced. He should’ve gone down the acquisition route for growth.
On the game itself, - Wenger hasn’t the benefit of hindsight like you and I.
A formation capable of beating United should be adequate in dealing with Villa and the decision to keep disruption to a minimum and retain the same formation was the correct one. In fact the general consensus prior to the game was to keep the same formation.
Two strikers wouldn’t have made a difference if key personnel still underperformed. Neither would they have prevented Clichy from scoring an own goal or Almunia failing to save what looked like a preventable second goal. We also lost at home to Hull with two strikers on the pitch.
Funny you say Villa were always going to have a defensive mentality because they attacked us right from the word go hence the reason I voiced concern on how easily our midfield was rendered useless, seeing as we matched them for numbers (and had technical superiority on our side(.
If you remember, we also beat them with 4-4-1-1 (Until Carew scythed down Hleb and disrupted our flow) at Villa Park last season with a lone striker and an AM.
Defeat today came by way of underperforming key personnel NOT due to formation or the absence of two strikers.
Anzac said:
You’d have had to have been at Colney with Pat, Boro and Wenger with all the data at hand to really formulate a valid opinion on systems. Distance covered in the previous game, individual performance, recovery period et cetera, are data you and I have no access to and they inevitably form a vital part of team set up. By all means we can question the rationality of Wenger’s decisions and thought process as well as the competence of personnel but saying “the system / style does NOT suit the capabilities of the player options AW has left himself with” is stretching it. I certainly agree with you that his faith in internal development is very much misplaced. He should’ve gone down the acquisition route for growth.
On the game itself, - Wenger hasn’t the benefit of hindsight like you and I.
A formation capable of beating United should be adequate in dealing with Villa and the decision to keep disruption to a minimum and retain the same formation was the correct one. In fact the general consensus prior to the game was to keep the same formation.
Two strikers wouldn’t have made a difference if key personnel still underperformed. Neither would they have prevented Clichy from scoring an own goal or Almunia failing to save what looked like a preventable second goal. We also lost at home to Hull with two strikers on the pitch.
Funny you say Villa were always going to have a defensive mentality because they attacked us right from the word go hence the reason I voiced concern on how easily our midfield was rendered useless, seeing as we matched them for numbers (and had technical superiority on our side(.
If you remember, we also beat them with 4-4-1-1 (Until Carew scythed down Hleb and disrupted our flow) at Villa Park last season with a lone striker and an AM.
Defeat today came by way of underperforming key personnel NOT due to formation or the absence of two strikers.
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
I dispute your first point on the system, as I dispute the system it's self. By that I mean the dual MC roles, the MCs providing the 1st response to defensive cover, the constant overlapping FBs, the poor & blind crosses, the short pass & move style in the last 3rd v deep set defences.
In addition I dispute the 4411 / 451 as anything other than a cop out formation for AW to put another body into our midfield. IMO this is where Ade is at his MOST importance for AW - he provides him with a viable option to play the lone striker. If the lone striker / 451 / 4411 with AMC is a viable formation for this club then we MUST sell half our strikers - they are not going to play & are a waste of wages, playing time etc.
I won't dispute the data re recovery time etc, as while it may be valid in regard to player selections, IMO it should have little bearing on the formation & tactics employed if your tactical vision matches your squad depth & capabilities. If they don't match then the manager has not done his job properly.
My reference to team mentalities between ManU & Villa was more to do with how many players they got forward in attack, as opposed to the general philosophy to attack. Against Utd we often found ourselves with even numbers or potential overlaps on the counter - I'd not have expected Villa to push the same numbers forward as often as ManU. Hence my preference for another striker / players with creativity & pace ahead of Diaby. For me Diaby slows our attack when involved - good for controlling a lead but not so when looking to establish a lead or when chasing the scoreline when playing a tighter defence - against ManU he had room & players moving into space.
I dispute your first point on the system, as I dispute the system it's self. By that I mean the dual MC roles, the MCs providing the 1st response to defensive cover, the constant overlapping FBs, the poor & blind crosses, the short pass & move style in the last 3rd v deep set defences.
In addition I dispute the 4411 / 451 as anything other than a cop out formation for AW to put another body into our midfield. IMO this is where Ade is at his MOST importance for AW - he provides him with a viable option to play the lone striker. If the lone striker / 451 / 4411 with AMC is a viable formation for this club then we MUST sell half our strikers - they are not going to play & are a waste of wages, playing time etc.
I won't dispute the data re recovery time etc, as while it may be valid in regard to player selections, IMO it should have little bearing on the formation & tactics employed if your tactical vision matches your squad depth & capabilities. If they don't match then the manager has not done his job properly.
My reference to team mentalities between ManU & Villa was more to do with how many players they got forward in attack, as opposed to the general philosophy to attack. Against Utd we often found ourselves with even numbers or potential overlaps on the counter - I'd not have expected Villa to push the same numbers forward as often as ManU. Hence my preference for another striker / players with creativity & pace ahead of Diaby. For me Diaby slows our attack when involved - good for controlling a lead but not so when looking to establish a lead or when chasing the scoreline when playing a tighter defence - against ManU he had room & players moving into space.
Gunner Ossie
Active Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
what's everyone so upset about, a few months ago most were claiming "Arsène knows" and that our sqaud was better than it now appears so whats changed?
its hillarious watching as members bounce in and out the optimists and pessimist camp following victories or defeats.
With regards to all these tedious arguments about partigular players playing well or badly. Heres something to consider
ramos + current squad = **** Sp**s
redknap + current sqaud = vastly improved Sp**s
Maybe its just the manager?
what's everyone so upset about, a few months ago most were claiming "Arsène knows" and that our sqaud was better than it now appears so whats changed?
its hillarious watching as members bounce in and out the optimists and pessimist camp following victories or defeats.
With regards to all these tedious arguments about partigular players playing well or badly. Heres something to consider
ramos + current squad = **** Sp**s
redknap + current sqaud = vastly improved Sp**s
Maybe its just the manager?
Biggus
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
Don't worry about it Ali not one of us is perfect. When Gallas first arrived, I hailed him as the perfect injection of experience that we needed at the back.
AliBabaBrewer said:
Don't worry about it Ali not one of us is perfect. When Gallas first arrived, I hailed him as the perfect injection of experience that we needed at the back.
RockyRocastle
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
That was as poor as I can remember for a long, long time. 4-5-1 at HOME at Aston Villa? Deary me. Why Vela who will surely be high on confidence didnt start is beyond me. If he isnt ready to start this game at 19 when will he be ready in Wenger's eyes?
Our midfield again is an utter shambles. I refuse to believe Cesc has his mind elsewhere (although he is off in the summer without a doubt). I think maybe first team football since 16 has caught up on him. He looks slow, lazy, cumbersome and his passing is all over the place. And dont get me started on Denilson.
Sidwell is miles ahead of him based on yesterday. And when our only option to come in to replace them is a 17 year old (all be it hugely talented) it exposes to total miss management of this squad.
To have lost Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra and NOT replaced them is criminal. But I sound like a broken record now as everyone has been saying this since the summer...apart from Wenger.
Pathetic.
That was as poor as I can remember for a long, long time. 4-5-1 at HOME at Aston Villa? Deary me. Why Vela who will surely be high on confidence didnt start is beyond me. If he isnt ready to start this game at 19 when will he be ready in Wenger's eyes?
Our midfield again is an utter shambles. I refuse to believe Cesc has his mind elsewhere (although he is off in the summer without a doubt). I think maybe first team football since 16 has caught up on him. He looks slow, lazy, cumbersome and his passing is all over the place. And dont get me started on Denilson.
Sidwell is miles ahead of him based on yesterday. And when our only option to come in to replace them is a 17 year old (all be it hugely talented) it exposes to total miss management of this squad.
To have lost Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra and NOT replaced them is criminal. But I sound like a broken record now as everyone has been saying this since the summer...apart from Wenger.
Pathetic.
Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00
After seeing another inept peformance from Nik, really can't see so much of a future here for him, with Ade, RVP, Theo, Vela, Eduardo all ahead of him for me.
Agree with you Rocky bout not replacing the CM. Had been hoping someone would have stepped up as Flamini did but Denilson is just not good enough yet. Should be nowhere near the first team. Also agree about Fabregas, his form has been (by his stadnards) terrible so far.
What a season . Beat by Hull, Stoke & Fulham, then go ahead and beat United...and lose the following week again.
After seeing another inept peformance from Nik, really can't see so much of a future here for him, with Ade, RVP, Theo, Vela, Eduardo all ahead of him for me.
Agree with you Rocky bout not replacing the CM. Had been hoping someone would have stepped up as Flamini did but Denilson is just not good enough yet. Should be nowhere near the first team. Also agree about Fabregas, his form has been (by his stadnards) terrible so far.
What a season . Beat by Hull, Stoke & Fulham, then go ahead and beat United...and lose the following week again.
