PL: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | 15/11/08

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Trying to play Bendtner as a lone striker is like trying to play Bergkamp as a lone striker and expecting it to work.

 

[progman07]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Trying to play Bendtner as a lone striker is like trying to play Bergkamp as a lone striker and expecting it to work.

except that Bergkamp wouldn't give away the ball at every single touch.

 

[Lord Dula]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

You know, it's getting to the point where I can't be bothered to type out posts to point out the shortcomings of our squad and manager.

It's like groundhog year.

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

The only reason the 451 worked against Man U is because we got that fortuitous opening goal. This forced Man U to commit more bodies forward and meant that we could hit them on the break.

When you are up against a side that is happy to have all their players sit deep and pump long balls up to a pacy and tricky forward like Agbonlahor, you need exceptional movement in attack to create chances.

Our movement yesterday was woeful. Nik was bad, but nobody gambled that he would flick on balls by running beyond him. Theo made a couple of clever runs but we played so many pointless sideways passes in midfield that the chance was gone.

Nasri was playing his own game, no tactical nous whatsoever. Because of him, Ashley Young had a free run at Clichy, and Clichy couldn't get forward.

Our defending as a team is shambolic.

 

[Captain]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

The absolute most interesting thing is that after all his talk of defensive balance last year (in relation to Eboue's position in the team), Wenger still plays midfields consisting of a solitary player who can make anything approaching a tackle and isn't always caught ahead of the play.

The midfield is a problem but the form our fullbacks is also taking a huge toll on this team.

 

[arsenalfc0719]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

True captain, but its not like the fullbacks are getting any help from our midfield.

 

[Captain]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Certainly.

You look at this team and the players who can make a difference are:

Clichy
Sagna
Fabregas
Ade
VanPersie
Gallas

Gallas and Clichy are the only two players out of that group who have been able to string two good performances together. A couple haven't even had one good performance after 16 odd games.

Out of six high quality, senior players (yes they are young, but they are senior in this squad and every one of them is a full international now) that is absolutely shocking and unforgivable irrespective of who else they are playing with.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Our fullbacks are getting no protection from our wide men. How many times did Young get a free run at Clichy/Nasri with Walcott/Nasri caught ball watching? You just get the feeling that Wenger is not spelling out instructions to the letter of the law. Besides, you can never cure youthful naivety contrary to Wenger's beliefs.

Talk of Cesc leaving this summer is also far fetched. He's stuck between a hard place and a harder place because at the moment Barca don't need him and neither do Madrid. They certainly won't be coughing up the outlay needed to prize him away.

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Nobody should kid themselves that we were the strongest defensive tean ever in Vieira's pomp,we were still more open than most other sides, however just when we looked like we were struggling to get hold of the ball, you would see those long telescopic legs thrown into a crunching tackle, and the ball taken cleanly. Suddenly this lifted the team, and the fans, and we had a bit more bite in every tackle.

It must be totally demoralising for our defenders to see the midfield infront of them chasing shadows and constantly getting caught ahead of the ball. It just pains me to see Barca bringing a guy like Seydou Keita off the bench having snapped him up for 8m euros.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

There is quite simply no conviction in midfield. The way we defend behind the ball is shockingly more random than measured. I was watching the game (first leg) against FC Twente the other day and thought about how easily we could’ve gone out of the CL with the way our midfield was easily outfought . Just makes you wonder why Wenger was willing to risk it all for the sake of a few millions. This has nothing to do with principles but a blatant disregard for the fundamentals of the game.

Sad state of affairs man. Never thought I’d see another 05/06 but it is increasingly looking like it.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

True captain, but its not like the fullbacks are getting any help from our midfield.

That is absolutely spot on. How often were Clichy and Sagna exposed last season? We were compact from midfield right down to our full backs and there was a real pattern to our play even if it wasn't the most desirable.

 

[Captain]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

the midfield was full of holes last year too but we could actually make a pass and create a few chances in a game which seems to have disappeared.

We had players who made 5/5 passes throughout the team last year (except for Adebayor which was probably one of the main reasons for so much of the fan apathy), this season and even with some of the same players they are struggling to make 3-4/5.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

I think last season we were very compact and learnt how to play as a unit in midfield. We almost mimicked Graham's analogy of a 'rope' as a unit. Our obvious shortcoming was with the aerial balls but any holes were kept to a minimum with a disciplined Flamini, Cesc and Hleb.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

We played bad football. Trying to make football sense is really no use, because you can have a million reasons..from flamini to whateva. Pundits are doing the same sh*..trying to make a buck by analyzing our problems. The same set of players bar maybe one or two have shown they can give us quality football when they play to their level (Not their potential, i am talking about their level because they have played at that level not one game or two games..some have done that for a whole season).

Why they can not consistently do that, if Arsène (who sees them day in day out..sees them in practice....)does not have an answer i very much doubt anyone here has, we are jsut talkin to talk.

It was a terrible game by all standards..we could not get out of that funk. It happens..the only problem is its happened quite often this season. Why??? I cant pretend to have an answer.

So I am just patiently waiting for this **** to just disappear on its own and we get a good run.

 

[GaelForce22]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

To be fair to Villa, they've used the same tactics three times at the Grove and every year they've looked closer to beating us, yesterday finally being the time they got that (deserved) victory.

Saying that, we shouldn't have lost. If we showed the same effort we did against Man United or the youngsters did against Wigan then we'd have won. These players have proven to be good enough on their day, but these days don't come along nearly as often as they should.

Denilson actually had a decent game yesterday, he did his job well enough but the Denilson/Cesc partnership clearly isn't working and Arsène should give up on them. Along with Diaby they had a battle against Sidwell, Barry and Petrov and all three lost the battle without trying. Nasri and Theo couldn't do enough when they were being pressed and the less said about Nicklas Bendtner on his own, the better.
I didn't think the defence were too bad except for the first goal, the second came about when we were chasing the game and if we are going to criticise anybody there it should be Almunia (but he saved a penalty so I wont).

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

We played bad football. Trying to make football sense is really no use, because you can have a million reasons..from flamini to whateva. Pundits are doing the same sh*..trying to make a buck by analyzing our problems. The same set of players bar maybe one or two have shown they can give us quality football when they play to their level (Not their potential, i am talking about their level because they have played at that level not one game or two games..some have done that for a whole season).

Why they can not consistently do that, if Arsène (who sees them day in day out..sees them in practice....)does not have an answer i very much doubt anyone here has, we are jsut talkin to talk.

It was a terrible game by all standards..we could not get out of that funk. It happens..the only problem is its happened quite often this season. Why??? I cant pretend to have an answer.

So I am just patiently waiting for this s**t to just disappear on its own and we get a good run.

It's not any great mystery though is it? When you think about the fact we've got the 3rd worst home defensive record in the league this season, there shouldn't be any scratching of heads.

Look, we lost 3 aggressive ball-winning international midfield players in Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto.

I don't care what Denilson looks like in training, it don't take a rocket scientist to see that
That's not to say that denilson is the root cause of all of our problems, but that he merely represents what amounts to horific mismangement of a team that made grear strides last year.
1) partnering him with cesc is like waving a red flag to a bull and
2) He is not tactically nor physically capable to execute the duties required of a defensive midfielder.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

W
1) partnering him with cesc is like waving a red flag to a bull and

I'm guessing the location was the Aravaca-Pozuelo

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

It's not any great mystery though is it? When you think about the fact we've got the 3rd worst home defensive record in the league this season, there shouldn't be any scratching of heads.

Look, we lost 3 aggressive ball-winning international midfield players in Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto.

I don't care what Denilson looks like in training, it don't take a rocket scientist to see that
That's not to say that denilson is the root cause of all of our problems, but that he merely represents what amounts to horific mismangement of a team that made grear strides last year.
1) partnering him with cesc is like waving a red flag to a bull and
2) He is not tactically nor physically capable to execute the duties required of a defensive midfielder.

Yes, we have conceded alot of goals..but pls tell me how that midfield has contributed to those goals we conceded. Its been defensive mistakes..one after the other mostly from our seniors. Dont give us the bs* of flamini protected the defense better last year. Thats all bs* (not devaluing flamini contribution to the overall team but he was never the protector). The defense PLAYED BETTER for the most stretch last year. They are **** now just as they became **** sometime in March when things took a wrong turn with flamini and then Gilberto still playing alongside Cesc. Its ridiculous to claim Flamini is the answer or Diara..who clearly struggled in games last year wen pressure was on us though i do rate him as well as you probably do. If you really looking for the answer..its not Denilson. I wont claim I know the answer but its really not difficult to show the holes in arguments put up by those claiming to have the "answer".

 

[Invincible]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

It's not any great mystery though is it? When you think about the fact we've got the 3rd worst home defensive record in the league this season, there shouldn't be any scratching of heads.

Look, we lost 3 aggressive ball-winning international midfield players in Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto.

I don't care what Denilson looks like in training, it don't take a rocket scientist to see that
That's not to say that denilson is the root cause of all of our problems, but that he merely represents what amounts to horific mismangement of a team that made grear strides last year.
1) partnering him with cesc is like waving a red flag to a bull and
2) He is not tactically nor physically capable to execute the duties required of a defensive midfielder.

Yes, we have conceded alot of goals..but pls tell me how that midfield has contributed to those goals we conceded. Its been defensive mistakes..one after the other mostly from our seniors. Dont give us the bs* of flamini protected the defense better last year. Thats all bs* (not devaluing flamini contribution to the overall team but he was never the protector). The defense PLAYED BETTER for the most stretch last year. They are s**t now just as they became s**t sometime in March when things took a wrong turn with flamini and then Gilberto still playing alongside Cesc. Its ridiculous to claim Flamini is the answer or Diara..who clearly struggled in games last year wen pressure was on us though i do rate him as well as you probably do. If you really looking for the answer..its not Denilson. I wont claim I know the answer but its really not difficult to show the holes in arguments put up by those claiming to have the "answer".

Kolo would disagree with you:

Skipper Kolo Toure revealed: "He does such a huge job in midfield. Having such a player in your team is just great.

"Thanks to him, in defence we are rarely put in trouble. That is why we call him Gattuso.

"He is a real marathon runner, he runs everywhere. He has a fantastic heart and fights for everyone.

"He is involved in any clash, but only for the good of the team."

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article324547.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... 324547.ece</a>

 

[asajoseph]

Re: Arsenal vs Aston Villa | EPL | 15/11/08 | 15:00

Call it bs as much as you like, but I've seen three things happen this year:

1) Several times, Denilson has been caught watching the play pass him by in midfield.

2) We've conceded a fair few goals letting teams take pot-shots from distance (as we did in 06/07, and then not so much in 07/08).

3) We're still vulnerable aerially.

We may not watch Arsenal in training every day, but many of us have been watching football for 20+ years, and playing the damn game too. The answer may not be as obvious as making one transfer, but we're not all rubes either.