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Random Football Stuff

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Terrible idea, would cripple the lower league clubs especially

I'm not so sure. It means that as you cannot loan out players anymore, you have to develop them yourself and give them game time. And as a player you know that's how it works and that after maybe a couple of loans you get your chance with the first team if you developed nicely.

Banning loans would, in the initial stages, surely run some great young talents into the ground, cause they're under contract at big clubs which can't afford to promote them and let 'em play.

But after a while, the result might be young players staying at their own, smaller clubs for better chances at game time, or taking more steps up the ladder instead going straight to Real Madrid. Smaller clubs could now profit longer from their good youth development, instead of getting raided for talented youngsters by bigger teams with more money. If these youngsters stay and develop into their early 20s, they will fetch far bigger transfer fees than if they had left as teenagers.
Youngster who are under contract at big clubs but don't get many chances might look for transfers away quicker, knowing they can't be loaned out anymore. That's another way small clubs could profit.

All in all, it could be an incentive for smaller clubs to invest more into their youth academies, and for young players to actually stay at smaller clubs longer for better chances to actually break through into first teams and to get game time.

It might lead to a higher number of buy back clauses. E.g. big clubs buying young players, having them in their youth teams for a time, then selling them on to smaller clubs, where they get first team game time, with buy back clauses. But even that would still hold some financial gain for small clubs, if they get a big club youth player for 5m and the big club buy him back two years later for a set fee of 10m. It could actually work out to give small clubs financial and sporting profits.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Ideal set of PL clubs?

Arsenal
Utd
City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Sp*rs
Everton
Newcastle
Sunderland
Aston Villa
Birmingham City
Wolves
Leeds
Forest
West Ham
Millwall
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Norwich
Ipswich

Completely pointless exercise obviously, but i'm bored.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
I always had a soft spot for Leeds, my Dad supports them. 100% need to get back to the top, but yeah I heard they're not too popular up your way.
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
I'm not so sure. It means that as you cannot loan out players anymore, you have to develop them yourself and give them game time. And as a player you know that's how it works and that after maybe a couple of loans you get your chance with the first team if you developed nicely.

Banning loans would, in the initial stages, surely run some great young talents into the ground, cause they're under contract at big clubs which can't afford to promote them and let 'em play.

But after a while, the result might be young players staying at their own, smaller clubs for better chances at game time, or taking more steps up the ladder instead going straight to Real Madrid. Smaller clubs could now profit longer from their good youth development, instead of getting raided for talented youngsters by bigger teams with more money. If these youngsters stay and develop into their early 20s, they will fetch far bigger transfer fees than if they had left as teenagers.
Youngster who are under contract at big clubs but don't get many chances might look for transfers away quicker, knowing they can't be loaned out anymore. That's another way small clubs could profit.

All in all, it could be an incentive for smaller clubs to invest more into their youth academies, and for young players to actually stay at smaller clubs longer for better chances to actually break through into first teams and to get game time.

It might lead to a higher number of buy back clauses. E.g. big clubs buying young players, having them in their youth teams for a time, then selling them on to smaller clubs, where they get first team game time, with buy back clauses. But even that would still hold some financial gain for small clubs, if they get a big club youth player for 5m and the big club buy him back two years later for a set fee of 10m. It could actually work out to give small clubs financial and sporting profits.

They could just put an age limit on loans

Or that you could only loan to feeder clubs
 

SomGooner

Prolific Liker
Ideal set of PL clubs?

Arsenal
Utd
City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Sp*rs
Everton
Newcastle
Sunderland
Aston Villa
Leicester City
Wolves
Leeds
Forest
West Ham
Fulham
Sheffield Utd
Sheffield Wednesday
Norwich
Ipswich

I chose to replace Milwall with Fulham as I can't stand their racist fans, and Birmingham City with Leicester just to add some spice to the Midland derbies as Birmingham offer absolutely nothing. Other than that great selection. Proper teams with long, rich history and tradition.

The Premier league needs all those historic derbies back ASAP, especially the Steel city derby in Sheffield or even the Yorkshire derbies and most of all, we need to have the Northeast derby back.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
I'm not so sure. It means that as you cannot loan out players anymore, you have to develop them yourself and give them game time. And as a player you know that's how it works and that after maybe a couple of loans you get your chance with the first team if you developed nicely.

Banning loans would, in the initial stages, surely run some great young talents into the ground, cause they're under contract at big clubs which can't afford to promote them and let 'em play.

But after a while, the result might be young players staying at their own, smaller clubs for better chances at game time, or taking more steps up the ladder instead going straight to Real Madrid. Smaller clubs could now profit longer from their good youth development, instead of getting raided for talented youngsters by bigger teams with more money. If these youngsters stay and develop into their early 20s, they will fetch far bigger transfer fees than if they had left as teenagers.
Youngster who are under contract at big clubs but don't get many chances might look for transfers away quicker, knowing they can't be loaned out anymore. That's another way small clubs could profit.

All in all, it could be an incentive for smaller clubs to invest more into their youth academies, and for young players to actually stay at smaller clubs longer for better chances to actually break through into first teams and to get game time.

It might lead to a higher number of buy back clauses. E.g. big clubs buying young players, having them in their youth teams for a time, then selling them on to smaller clubs, where they get first team game time, with buy back clauses. But even that would still hold some financial gain for small clubs, if they get a big club youth player for 5m and the big club buy him back two years later for a set fee of 10m. It could actually work out to give small clubs financial and sporting profits.
It wouldn't work. Some players will benefit from the initial better education at say us whereas some will develop better with minutes playing for Charlton. But at least players will have the choice and can decide on the career path that they feel is best for them.

The idea of lower league teams buying the player's is a non starter as well, where is the money coming from to do this?

The loan system while far from perfect is about as good as it gets.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
It wouldn't work. Some players will benefit from the initial better education at say us whereas some will develop better with minutes playing for Charlton. But at least players will have the choice and can decide on the career path that they feel is best for them.

The idea of lower league teams buying the player's is a non starter as well, where is the money coming from to do this?

The loan system while far from perfect is about as good as it gets.

It's not so much about buying them as them not leaving early for bigger clubs.

You don't take away any choice from the players. Either they choose playing time at a smaller club or still join a big team - just now they dont have the loan option anymore so their choice just has to be more educated and thought out. That's not taking away choice it's saying think smart.

Taking away the possibility for rich teams to get in young talent for small fees and selling them on for more after loans is only going to help smaller teams and their academies - regarding the quality of players as well as financially. It will also force some big clubd to become more permeable again.

Those who opt to join a big club will either make it or be moved on for eventually relatively low fees as they would block wages and squad spots.

It's not youth any more, but Asensio made it at Real, Kovacic will leave for a contextually low fee.

See Sessegnon for an example. He could stay and arguably help Fulham to a better season with his quality and then reign in an even bigger fee next summer, or he could join a big team on higher wages but probably play less or absolutely kill it. It's still his choice. You just don't have the option to be loaned out.

You also have to remember : Those players loaned out to small by big who then go on to help their loan club would probably not have been at the big club in the first place, but another smaller club.

The only thing really is they have to make more educated decisions and clubs have to develop on their own while providing actual posssibilities to break through.

A club like Arsenal would virtually not be touched by this in any way. The better talents are actually coming through and it doesnt make a difference if you sell Afobe for 2m 3 years ago or today.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
You're missing the point re the finances. Bigger clubs have more money to employ coaches and provide facilities to train kids (read up on the elite player performance plan requirements) They start coming into the system from the age of 5. Lower league teams do not have the scale to train the volume of players required to keep the system going.

Not all players at 16 need loaned. They can be released on frees and fall down the pyramid whilst having the education to be picked up. Some may be kept on and brought into the under 18s etc and either make it, released, loaned or sold. Brentford have scrapped their whole youth program and solely focus on released players for their senior B team.

If you prevent the teams that provide the bulk of players from making money, and loans play a vital part in that, then you shaft those teams further down the food chain who rely on players being trained and then re-entering the system. Some players may opt to start lower and work their way up and that's fine but you cannot shift the burden of development from the rich to the poor. The time frame for development is to long before any team can make money. As noted above players begin entering these programs aged 5, could Exeter support 50 developing kids for 11 years and potentially have none of those kids make it at their level?
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
You're missing the point re the finances. Bigger clubs have more money to employ coaches and provide facilities to train kids (read up on the elite player performance plan requirements) They start coming into the system from the age of 5. Lower league teams do not have the scale to train the volume of players required to keep the system going.

Not all players at 16 need loaned. They can be released on frees and fall down the pyramid whilst having the education to be picked up. Some may be kept on and brought into the under 18s etc and either make it, released, loaned or sold. Brentford have scrapped their whole youth program and solely focus on released players for their senior B team.

If you prevent the teams that provide the bulk of players from making money, and loans play a vital part in that, then you shaft those teams further down the food chain who rely on players being trained and then re-entering the system. Some players may opt to start lower and work their way up and that's fine but you cannot shift the burden of development from the rich to the poor. The time frame for development is to long before any team can make money. As noted above players begin entering these programs aged 5, could Exeter support 50 developing kids for 11 years and potentially have none of those kids make it at their level?

Just for the first paragraph : There's tons of small top flight clubs and lower league clubs down til 2nd and 3rd league that have exceptional academies, at least in Germany. It's absolutely not like just the big clubs have those.

And the financial part: Even one player with massive talent who doesnt go to big Name #1 at age 16 for 1m playing u18 but aged 21 playing for the first team in 2nd Division and goes for 10 or 15m or only even 5 allows big investments back into the club via pitches, coaches , etc.

The problem isnt smaller clubs not having the facilities to educate players, it's the money off of those to invest in infrastructure is currently only harvested by those already rich and that has to change.

Bayern sign a 16 year old from Freiburg excellent academy for 500.000 cause he's a kid. 5 loans later they sell him to a solide BL club for 5 cause he didnt make it at Bayern but is still solid. Right now maybe another 500.000 go to Freiburg for developing him from 5 to 16, but Bayern make 4 off him for playing him at u17 one season and two loans. That is not how it should be if you want to break the money club grasp on football.
 
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Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Not sure where else to put this. It's actually an advice column for new fans on how to "pick a team," but it's kind of interesting in its perspective on how this writer views the current 20. I do find the claim that Arsenal is the best-supported club in the United States rather surprising. I would have figured it was Manchester United. But what do I know?

Here's what he says about Arsenal:

1. Arsenal
Last championship: 2003-04
Years in Premier League: 27/27
Nickname: Gunners
Location: London
American players: Gedion Zelalem
Biggest rivals: Tottenham Hotspur, Chelsea, Manchester United
Comparison: New York Giants, Los Angeles Dodgers

The good news, if you choose Arsenal, is that you’ll have so much company. Arsenal is the most-supported team in these here United States of America, and their passionate fan base is almost impossible to miss. They have a massive celebrity supporter base, too, from Idris Elba to Prince Harry, Steve Earle to Jay-Z, there’s a bountiful group of fancy fans.

There’s some magic to the club, for sure, and it’s been some time since the Gunners were a genuine contender for the crown. With a new coach for the first time in ages, plenty of high-flying attackers, and status as second-best to their long-time rival Tottenham, there’s intrigue at Arsenal and a new fan wouldn’t be a bandwagon jumper.


You can read about the rest of the clubs here:

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/0...de-to-finding-a-favorite-premier-league-club/
 

Arsenal Quotes

When I arrive at the gates of Heaven the Good Lord will ask "What did you do in your life?"
I will respond "I tried to win football matches."
He will say: "Are you certain that's all?"
"Well, that's the story of my life. It is not easy to win football matches, you know."

Arsène Wenger
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