Technical Director Search

[Slartibartfast]

How much of Ajax starting eleven was scouted and how much of it is from the academies?
How much of Ajax talent comes from inside the league?

Genuin questions.

Good questions that personally I'm not qualified to answer (hopefully one of our Dutch members can).

However, one thing from Charles Watts' article the other day about Overmars wanting the job struck me:

Overmars predominantly looks after the business side of things, while recruitment is left to chief scout Henk Veltmate.

So if Overmars is hired, Arsenal will definitely need to replace Sven Mislintat with a new chief scout, be it Cagigao or someone else. Had Monchi taken the job, they may not have had to fill Sven's old job since Monchi would have overseen the scouting network and academy.

 

[scytheavatar]

I'm not buying the notion of low ball etc.

Why not? Have you not seen how we went around begging clubs to loan players to us in Jan? Low balling sounds like absolutely what you expect from the club. Pretty depressing that you expect things to change with spinless Gazidis gone and yet now we have Raul the beggar king in charge of the club.

So if Overmars is hired, Arsenal will definitely need to replace Sven Mislintat with a new chief scout, be it Cagigao or someone else. Had Monchi taken the job, they may not have had to fill Sven's old job since Monchi would have overseen the scouting network and academy.

I am 100% certain that having a technical director to work with the head of recruitment alongside Emery and Raul to sign players has always been the plan. That structure caused Sven to leave us, and probably cause Monchi to think twice about joining us.

 

[Gooner416]

According to James Benge's article (linked above), Arsenal wants either someone who has a previous relationship with Emery or somebody who has a history at Arsenal. That would seem to rule out Campos.

As far as Monchi choosing to go back to Sevilla, I think we have to keep in mind that it is home to him. Sevilla wasn't just a stop in the road for Monchi as it was for Emery or the vast majority of the players. He was born an hour's drive away, grew up in Sevilla's youth system, played for the club at the senior level and then spent 17 years as their sporting director. I don't think we should fault someone for choosing home over something unknown.

It's also important to note that at Sevilla Monchi is running the whole show and reports only to the owner. The role he was offered at Arsenal is a rung down the ladder as he would be reporting to Sanllehi, who as head of football will be the technical director's boss and supervisor.

Those are good points that I didn't take into account, I wonder what his pay is like at Sevilla in comparison though. There were rumours we have offered 2.5M pounds p/y.

 

[Gooner416]

Why not? Have you not seen how we went around begging clubs to loan players to us in Jan? Low balling sounds like absolutely what you expect from the club. Pretty depressing that you expect things to change with spinless Gazidis gone and yet now we have Raul the beggar king in charge of the club.



I am 100% certain that having a technical director to work with the head of recruitment alongside Emery and Raul to sign players has always been the plan. That structure caused Sven to leave us, and probably cause Monchi to think twice about joining us.

I would assume that budgets set for playing staff and executives are not entangled. There were rumours that we were offering 2.5M pounds p/y.

Most clubs function in that fashion, take Manchester City into account, you have Txiki (DoF), Soriano (CEO) and Pep. I think their structure is working out just fine for them if you ask me.

 

[scytheavatar]

I would assume that budgets set for playing staff and executives are not entangled. There were rumours that we were offering 2.5M pounds p/y.

Most clubs function in that fashion, take Manchester City into account, you have Txiki (DoF), Soriano (CEO) and Pep. I think their structure is working out just fine for them if you ask me.

It might be that the club is wary of investing too much in Monchi after how his time at Roma turned out and didn't want to give him a big contract only to make it hard to sack him when we need to......... might also be that the club doesn't believe in some Wenger in scouting that fans are so hoping for and expect our new Technical Director to be nothing more than one of the guys helping Raul and Emery. We don't know, but one thing for sure is that lowballing is consistent with how the club behaves in the past.

 

[Mark Tobias]

I think their structure is working out just fine for them if you ask me.

With the amount of money they are given to spend it would be difficult to fvck it up though.

 

[Tourbillion]

A return 15 years in the making!

Overmars or bust.

Try 19 years.

 

[Toby]

So if Overmars is hired, Arsenal will definitely need to replace Sven Mislintat with a new chief scout, be it Cagigao or someone else. Had Monchi taken the job, they may not have had to fill Sven's old job since Monchi would have overseen the scouting network and academy.

Agree that whoever comes in should get a sidekick. There's an abundancy of great scouts and analysts at the clubs who very consistently scout and sign good talent.

But we already got an academy head in Mertesacker. And I have to disagree on the prowess of Sevilla's academy. Don't think that list is super impressive. The clear standout names are Reyes, Ramos and Navas.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sev...galerie/0?wettbewerb_id=gesamt&option=0&art=6

 

[Tosker]

With the amount of money they are given to spend it would be difficult to fvck it up though.

agree - it's the owners of City who make the difference

 

[Toby]

@Slartibartfast Compare that Sevilla list to e.g. VfB Stuttgart. Let's take players born between 1985 (who would've still been academy players in 2000 when Monchi took over at Sevilla and 1999, so players who would have been 18 when Monchi left).

In that time frame Stuttgart produced several full on internationals. Gomez, Khedira, Tasci, Badstuber, Bicakcic, Rudy, Leno, Stöger, Rüdiger, Kolasinac, Kehrer, Werner, Gnabry, Kimmich, Szalai and another hand full of international fringe players like Compper, Gentner, Beck, Karius, Toljan, Baumgartl. These guys share just short of 500 caps for their countries with a lot of them not even half through their career yet. That's good academy productivity - even without 700 scouts and a mastermind like Monchi.

You could also look at other German clubs like Bremen, Dortmund and Gladback who have done very well. I don't think Ramos, Navas, Reyes and Luis Alberto in almost the last two decades as the only outstanding players qualify Sevilla as a great academy.

 

[Garrincha]

I don't think Ramos, Navas, Reyes and Luis Alberto in almost the last two decades as the only outstanding players qualify Sevilla as a great academy.

Think its generally more the city seen as a football crazy hotbed & within a few years had the likes of Reyes, Ramos, Jesus, Joaquin, Puerta & a couple of other all coming through together between the two clubs.

 

[Toby]

Think its generally more the city seen as a football crazy hotbed & within a few years had the likes of Reyes, Ramos, Jesus, Joaquin, Puerta & a couple of other all coming through together between the two clubs.

Think it's still pretty thin to call FC Sevilla's academy outstanding in some way. There are a lot of compareable and superior academies all over Europe. I don't want to deride their/Monchi's work in youth development, but I wouldn't neccesarilly list it as one of their/his big strengths as I just don't see how they are supposed to be this super academy, when fact of the matter is they have brought through only 3 indisputable top players in a span of 15 to 20 years of whom only Ramos has been a staple for the NT - and then some solid top flier guys at best to round it off.

Recruiting young talent for the first team is something different than bringing them through the academy.

 

[Slartibartfast]

And I have to disagree on the prowess of Sevilla's academy. Don't think that list is super impressive. The clear standout names are Reyes, Ramos and Navas.

At about the same time as Ramos, Reyes and Navas they had Diego Capel and the late Antonio Puerta. Not a bad group. Through the years they were able to sell literally hundreds of academy players to other clubs for profit, even if most of them are not household names. When Monchi was appointed in 2000, Sevilla's youth system was a shambles. By 2008, the players we listed had been developed and they had more than 400 players over 22 youth teams. They may not be able to match Real Madrid and Barcelona, but considering where they came from it was quite an accomplishment.

And really, if you look at Arsenal over the same period, how many real standouts are you going to find? Bellerin, Gnabry, Szczesny. Then you're basically going to Iwobi, Wilshere and Coquelin. I can find you plenty of players from Sevilla's youth system who compare with them. The fact is that bigger clubs rarely produce their own players in high numbers anymore as they did when Ray Parlour and Tony Adams came up through Arsenal.

 

[Toby]

And really, if you look at Arsenal over the same period, how many real standouts are you going to find? Bellerin, Gnabry, Szczesny. Then you're basically going to Iwobi, Wilshere and Coquelin. I can find you plenty of players from Sevilla's youth system who compare with them. The fact is that bigger clubs rarely produce their own players in high numbers anymore as they did when Ray Parlour and Tony Adams came up through Arsenal.

Don't really think Arsenal is a top academy, either.

At about the same time as Ramos, Reyes and Navas they had Diego Capel and the late Antonio Puerta. Not a bad group.

Just what I said. 3 top players and then a lot of solid/average top flight guys like Capel - because let's not overrate that guy.

By 2008, the players we listed had been developed and they had more than 400 players over 22 youth teams.

And out of those 400 they made 3 to 5 good players and then average guys they sold off or let go to other clubs. Hm. It's good for them and they surely know how to produce guys that end up in the upper tiers, but at the same time their success rate in top players/rated internationals is a bit thin.

The whole thing seems so similar to Monchi's strategy of spreading the money and seeing what sticks when buying for the first team.

I get you're a fan, but I think in terms of his academy work you are overrating him a bit. It's cool they're producing 50 youngsters each year to fill the ranks of the likes of Getafe, Leganes and Eibar and it helps them survive as a club, but that's not exactly stellar, either.

E.g. Benfica and Porto are the two biggest academies in Portugal and they churn out massive amounts of average guys who then fill the ranks of other Portuguese upper tier teams, but at the same time they have developed more than 3 pretty damn good players as well.

 

[<<reed>>]

Any news?

 

[Rex Stone]

I’d go along with @Toby Andrl on what he’s saying about Sevilla’s academy. In fact even in terms of Spanish academies I’d say they’re nothing special.

Even removing La Fábrica, La Masia and the Atletico Infantil who have an advantage due to club size and region, Sevilla have been pretty mediocre.

The two stand out academies have always been the big two from the Basque Country. By any metric they’ve been able to pump out both stars and mid table guys in large numbers.

Beyond those two Valencia have been the standard in recent years. David Silva, Raul Albiol, Isco, Nolito, Gaya, Alcacer, Bernat and Carlos Soler have all come through in recently.

Those guys are the making of a Champions League team pretty much and considering there’s another La Liga team in Valencia’s catchment area it’s even more impressive.

For Sevilla though their academy being poor isn’t the point. Their success was built on transfer market savvy and that’s equally legitimate.

Guys like Sarabia, Suarez and Nolito who’ve been key players for them were undervalued by their own academies and became key contributors.

Monchi is top class in the transfer market but he’s never pretended to be a great academy man.

Edit:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/30/athletic-bilbao-players-la-liga

Btw this is a must read about how amazing Bilbao’s academy is. Incredible achievement.

 

[Kingslayer]

 

[Camron]

It’s Over mars.

 

[Sniper Mik]

 

[Toby]

Interesting. So seems like targets 1, 2 and 3 have all turned down Arsenal. This is going to be very interesting. There's enough able guys still out there.